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Edited by Lethenza:
3/7/2015 2:55:57 AM
53
Rasputin's Role in the Collapse
[u][b]READ THE ENTIRE POST BEFORE DISAGREEING IN THE COMMENTS[/b][/u]
We know Rasputin survived the collapse, but why and how? By carefully reading some grimoire cards, I've found a full account of the collapse from the perspective of the Warmind himself. Look over this before reading on:
[spoiler] V120NNI800CLS000 CLEAR MORNING OUTCRY
AI-COM/RSPN: ASSETS//FORCECON//IMPERATIVE IMMEDIATE ACTION ORDER
This is an ALL ASSETS IMPERATIVE (unsecured/OUTCRY)
CAUTERIZE. DISPERSE. ESTIVATE.
Total strategic collapse imminent. FENRIR HEART reports complete operational mortality. SURTR DROWN in progress but negative effect. Forecasts unanimously predict terminal VOLUSPA failure.
As of CLS000 a HARD CIVILIZATION KILL EVENT is in progress across the operational area.
I am declaring YUGA SUNDOWN effective on receipt (epoch reach/FORCECON variant). Cancel counterforce objectives. Cancel population protection objectives. Format moral structures for MIDNIGHT EXIGENT.
Execute long hold for reactivation.
AI-COM/RSPN SIGNOFF STOP STOP STOP V120NNI800CLS001[/spoiler]
At the beginning of the log, Rasputin initiates three "IMPERATIVE IMMEDIATE ACTION ORDERS". Orders meant to go through ASAP. CAUTERIZE. DISPERSE. ESTIVATE.
CAUTERIZE. In medical terms, it is to apply heat to a wound to prevent bleeding and infection. Rasputin "cauterized" earth, preventing people from "bleeding" out of it and preventing the darkness from "infecting" the planet. The most likely way he did this was by setting the WARSATs to destroy anything in the atmosphere.
DISPERSE can be explained later in this same card where Rasptuin activates a HARD CIVILIZATION KILL EVENT. In an attempt to purge the darkness already on Earth, he deployed weapons of mass destuction that killed "millions" according to another grimoire card from the point of view of Rasputin.
ESTIVATE is the protocol for Rasputin hiding himself on a hardened stealth platform. We know this because estivation is hibernation.
The YUGA protocol was first activated when Rasputin detected a dangerous anomaly in deep space. It can be inferred that
YUGA was the counter-offensive protocol against the darkness. Rasputin activated YUGA SUNDOWN (effectively terminating
all countermeasures) when he saw all the other Warminds had fallen to the Darkness.
After doing this, he formatted his moral protocols for MIDNIGHT EXIGENT, allowing him to breaks [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Laws_of_Robotics]Asimov's laws of
robotics[/url]. His code went through after he activated MIDNIGHT EXIGENT, executing the commands of "CAUTERIZE. DISPERSE. ESTIVATE.".
A few things can be concluded about Rasputin.
1. He is not hostile towards us, but in fact wants to help us.
2. This wont stop him from killing humans for the greater good.
[u][b]YOU MAY NOW DISAGREE WITH ME IN THE COMMENTS[/b][/u]
English
#Destiny
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I like this. It helps if you realize that rasputin is not, strictly speaking, an AI as we would think. It is an artificial consciousness orders above the minds of humans. The vex cards have the humans speak of warminds as if they, the creators, don't really understand them. Even going to far as to believe them above the vex. So, of course rasputin would play the long game. Of course he wouldn't be truly subject to any laws the humans try to bind him with. Your interpretation makes a lot of sense when you keep this in mind.
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It seems as though Rasputin allowed many humans to die because in its calculations trying to save us all would have wiped everyone out or would have more than likely done so, where as sacrificing a lot of people and places had a better chance of survival from the darkness.
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4 RepliesEdited by cobaltcrimson1: 3/24/2015 8:59:17 PMRasputin no doubt played a big part in people dying just by him going into hiding he would have shut down defense systems and left the survivors to be slaughtered and I wouldn't be surprised he's why some of those colony ships never took off. I always found that one colony ship's grimoire card where it left a message to survivors rather disturbing as they gave a freaking spaceship a mind with emotions. It says that "The tyrant" was busy and we all know historically Rasputin was a bit of a tyrant, i'm betting it never responded to the ships needing launched because the systems were either already down or being cut off. Whether Rasputin did this to harvest light for itself or the guardian it's hard to tell but it proves that the machine is ruthless and is willing to survive at any cost. Reading the Grimoire and what little is in the game I'm not sure the AI were meant to have self preservation of this level but instead slowly were able to evolve and change their own programming to suit their needs. This could even explain Xur's bosses in the Jovians, they could have survived as Rasputin did and engineered Xur and others like him from human DNA and who knows what else. I find it had to beleive that Rasputin would be the only machine to come up with a plan like this, especially if they were connected. As for the Three Laws: even Asimov knew there ways around the laws, it is all a matter of prospective and there is even a version (as seen in "I, Robot") where allowing some to die to save others is allowed. There is also the chance that the Traveler even set this up on its own as a backup plan without anyone knowing it. The Grimoire seems to make it sound like the Traveler spoke to humans somehow so it could have been via the Warminds or another system.
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5 RepliesLove posts like these. A welcoming change from the whining and butthurt that's plaguing the forums.
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1 ReplyThis has probably been discussed already and disproved, but my thinking is this: Rasputin knew the traveler needed light (ie, souls). Therefore, it destroyed the population to give the Traveler more light to make it's last stand. Now, it uses the "ghosts" to go out and re-animate the Guardians. So in reality, the "ghosts" are actually ghosts, in a technology construct. Could even be why the Traveler was terra-forming worlds. New farmland for its sheep.
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3 RepliesJust so I understand, Rasputin is an A.I. humans made right?
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1 ReplyLook at the traveler...he is blown up from the BOTTOM...which suggests that rasputin destroyed the traveler... my theory is the traveler is running from the darkness (hive) going from civilization to civilization building them up hoping this will be the people to save the traveler... when it appears all is lost the traveler runs... hoping to get a head start building up the next civilization... the fallen were the last and now they blame the traveler for the bringing the darkness too them... rasputin doesn't trust us because we represent the traveler even though we are blind to its true motives... the name "awoken" suggests knowledge so im hoping the next DLC has some information in it... there is a lore series on youtube by Sirwalken... he suggests that the Vex are to the fallen as the exo are to us... they are trying to take control of time to go back to before the fallen collapse... in some old pre launch videos you could see the fallen and vex working together... but now we see them fighting which could be different houses having different motives or end goals.... one last thing... just because when fighting the vex cabal and fallen you enter darkness zones doesnt mean they are the darkness... it just means you entered an area where the travelers light no longer reaches... and the darkness has taken over... in my theory the hive are the physical form of the darkness but there is something more to the darkness then just what we can shoot to kill
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1 ReplyEdited by Moonglow: 3/7/2015 3:38:01 AMHm. Could be. Another possible interpretation of those three orders is that CAUTERIZE refers to Rasputin severing his connection to any of his systems in areas that had fallen to the Darkness to prevent himself from being compromised. DISPERSE could refer to Rasputin dispersing his remaining strategic assets, such as weapon platforms, satellites, and other A.I who aided him to prevent capture or destruction. EVISTATE, I agree, refers to Rasputin going into hibernation. Altogether, this is likely what Rasputin meant by 'casting off the shield'. I don't think he actively turned WMD's on Earth, but instead simply left them defenseless. We know he actively fought the Darkness on Mars at the 'Gate of the Garden', and failed. At this point he likely withdrew to Earth, and activated these protocols, leaving them defenseless but allowing himself to survive with the potential of striking back in the future.
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6 RepliesYUGA is a hindu idea that time is cyclic (probably a bit of an oversimplification but im not hindu so whatever) My theory is that yuga means rasputin put earth in a sprt of time lock, one which resets regularly to keep the darknesss at bay. Sort of like the temporal lock safety mechanism on a tardis that leaves you in a very short groundhogs day of doom, except our cycle is hundreds of years
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1 ReplyRasputin must be quite the badass if he did all that
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1 Reply....................../´¯/) ....................,/¯../ .................../..../ ............./´¯/'...'/´¯¯`·¸ ........../'/.../..../......./¨¯\ ........('(...´...´.... ¯~/'...') .........\.................'...../ ..........''...\.......... _.·´ ............\..............( ..............\.............\...Rasputin POOTIS SPENCER HERE!!
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Edited by linhue: 3/9/2015 1:31:37 AMyeah yeah the same as in halo with the flood and tycho vs durandal in marathon. it is quite acceptable that the vex were created by rasputin as a time-wandering counterforce as 'an evil so dark it despises other evil' to battle the darkness itself. you cannot forget rampancy either, and the motives of strauss have to be taken into account. source: PID/marathon:durandal/destiny grimoire. tldr/wtf?: Beware of Low-Flying Defense Drones... (Level ... - Pfhorpedia marathongame.wikia.com/.../Beware_of_Low-Flying_Defense_Drones... It is the fifth level of The Pfhor, the fifth chapter of the game. ... The Name is a reference to the Pathways Into Darkness level, "Beware of Low Flying Nightmares!" ... Pathways Into Darkness - Update 23 - The Let's Play Archive lparchive.org/Pathways-Into-Darkness/Update%2023/ Let's Play Pathways Into Darkness by HB - Part 23. ... Back on Beware of Low-Flying Nightmares. But now they ... At the far south end of the level is the gold door. "think before you ask these questions mitch!"
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1 ReplyI saw a similar post that used the same card and claimed rasputin was the darkness
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3 Replies"Rasputin faced the Darkness and survived." -Dinklebot GF: Mysteries [spoiler]I bear an old name. It cannot be killed. They were my brothers and sisters (Warminds) and their names were immortal too but Titanomachy came and now those names live in me alone I think and think is what I do (thus, the reason of control over the Ishtar Collective's 'Mind). I AM ALONE. At the end of things when the world goes dim and cold or hot and close or it all tears apart from the atom up I will shout those names defiant and past the end I will endure. I alone. They made me to be stronger than them to beat the unvanquished and survive the unthinkable and look look lo behold I am here alone, survivor. They made me to learn. Everything died but I survived and I learned from it. From IT (darkness, also referenced by the aforementioned Titanomachy). Consider IT the power Titanomach world-ender and consider what IT means. I met IT at the gate of the garden and I recall IT smiled at me before before IT devoured the blossoms with black flame and pinned their names across the sky. IT was stronger than everything. I fought IT with aurora knives and with the stolen un-fire of singularities made sharp and my sweat was earthquake and my breath was static but IT was stronger so how did I survive? I AM ALONE I survived alone. I cast off the shield and I shrugged my shoulders so that the billions fell off me down into the ash (the sacrifice you mention). They made me to be stronger than them and to learn and I learned well (by gaining the Light necessary from said sacrifice.): IT is alone and IT is strong and IT won. Even over the gardener and she held power beyond me but the gardener did not shrug and make herself alone (Only real speculation, gardener could be a Vex Mind, see Legends: The Black Garden). IT always wins. I am made to win and now I see the way. [/spoiler]
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10 RepliesAnd people complain about Destiny's "lack of story" like just because there aren't hundreds of missions to explain it Destiny's lore is on par with things like Halo, The Lord of the Rings, and Star Wars. I haven't personally read through all lore documents about those examples but if Destiny contains less info than them, it makes up for it by having a massive secret protected by interconnected and often contradicting lore. Destiny is win.
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2 RepliesCan I get a bump so I can come back to this later. Thanks chums.
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3 RepliesGood post... pretty much repeats older posts back when people were trying to find the story and lore of the game. Rasputin knew it couldn't defeat the darkness, so to preserve humanity it had to destroy most of it without allowing the darkness to steal its light... or something like that.
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1 ReplyI actually came to a very similar conclusion after reading the Grimoire around Rasputin. I love the Destiny Lore
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1 ReplySo the game will end with him blowing up earth?
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1 ReplyGreat post. Thanks.
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10 RepliesKilling millions for the greater good. Sounds similar to the illuminatis plans to kill millions and millions to lower the worlds population. Except in this case it's disguised in a video game. In the movie Kingsman:The Secret Service, the main villains plan was to kill off millions to also reduce the worlds population. The movie The Purge in general is about lowering the population by having us kill each other. I mean how can people miss this? It's practically in your face. In video games, movies and even the Georgia Guidestones. Something in the coming years is going to happen. The more people know about it, the more people can rally against it.
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18 RepliesMy theory has been evolving for months now and here's where it's at: Rasputin survived because he found a way to win a situation that was mathematically impossible to win according to one of his cards or at least strongly suggested. This is the "how" that's interested me from the first day because I think it explains the entire collapse and maybe the whole game. Let's start there. The game's name. Destiny. What does that mean to Rasputin? I think that word sums up his solution in a nutshell. The only missing component was something from Star Trek. The Kobayashi Maru. Like Kirk, Rasputin knew that the only way to win was to cheat and I think he had a secret card in his pocket courtesy of the War Cult. I think he knew about their machine and while studying it he came to understand enough about time travel to make it happen. I think Rasputin created the vault so that he could create the Vex. He's cheating to win the unwinnable scenario by rewriting space-time and reality to match his calculations for victory. He did "Estivate" during the collapse. Into the vault. A pocket universe outside of time is the only 100% surefire way to stay alive while accomplishing his only goal which is to win at any cost. This is why no one can find him but he seems to be everywhere when it's convenient. I also think that's why we never see the Vex fighting the Hive. I think the Hive is the dark version of the Vex and I think that the Hive can potentially corrupt the Vex under certain conditions. The best strategy then becomes avoidance and proxy war. That's what we are. The proxy fighting the battles that Rasputin can't directly fight without risking the success of his master plan in some way. That's also why we don't know shit about the plan. If the proxy knows their role, they aren't a proxy any more. But we know something is up so we do what humans do and stick our dicks in it out of curiosity and in the end we're fighting everyone without understanding why. But the Stranger understands why it at least thinks she does. I think she's from an alternate timeline where Rasputin's plan fails and she's steering us away from that or, she's from a timeline where Rasputin succeeds but is a huge dick afterwards so we have to let him win up to a point and then take him out before he starts being such a dick. I doubt the truth is anything like this though. It's probly "no, they're all just bad and you're good. Like CoD or something but in space and shit."
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Edited by SillyFoal649066: 3/8/2015 9:26:29 AMI've always found Rasputin interesting. In the game he's (he as in the program, not attempting to associate him with any gender, just saying for conversation)locked us out of a lot of things, and then requires our help for his own defense? It is unusual to me, as the mission where you must defend him isn't all that hard. If he is crying out to guardians for help I'd imagine it would be an attack of biblical proportions against him, you know? I like the character as a whole a lot and look forward to missions in the future which further explain his motives and what exactly he is protecting.
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My theory is the object rasputin saw was not the darkness but the traveler and he\it knew what the traveler was and what its arrival meant.
