Yep. Either a maxed AE or VoC. Had two attempts at Atheon on hard last night with separate groups, and left after about 90 minutes wanting to strangle someone. I'm in no way a superstar raider, but i'm definitely not the worst. Some of the consistent -blam!- ups I witnessed last night drained me. I'm usually patient as hell, and undemanding when LFG, but I think I might have to start altering my approach. Last night saw the same person miss the jump to the middle platform 3 runs in a row, and a multitude of Oracle submissions due to people using Thorns, and someone trying to use legendary auto rifle they'd just dropped in the Nightfall. It made me a sad panda. EDIT: After reading some of the comments below. I may start switching up to my Correct Measure for Oracles, although I usually prefer saving my HMG ammo for Times Vengeance.