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1/25/2013 1:54:44 PM
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You know which party is trying to undermine American democracy?

I'll give you a hint. It's not the Democrats. When people grounded in reality are handed a stunning rebuke by the people they're meant to serve, they reexamine their positions and make necessary changes to their ideology to compete with their opponents. Unfortunately, Republicans haven't been grounded in reality for quite some time. So when they get slaughtered in an election, they don't think the problem is with the Republican party. They think the problem is with democracy. I mean, why should they let a majority decide on their government when the majority doesn't buy their nonsense? [url=http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/24/republican-vote-rigging-electoral-college_n_2546010.html]So here is their new plan[/url]. Basically, it awards electoral college votes based on individual congressional districts. The main argument against the electoral college is that it decouples the end results from the popular vote. There are the cases where this makes a difference (Bush v Gore), but they're rare. Most people who suggest reforms to the electoral college do it to make it more similar to the popular vote. But those silly Republicans don't do what most people do. Instead, they want to decouple it even more. If this plan were in place during the 2012 election, we'd be under a Romney administration. Even though Obama won the popular vote 51% to 47%. That's about 5 million votes. So the Republicans want to invalidate a pretty large majority in order to push their will. You may be asking why moving to congressional electoral college makes so much of a difference. If you're a little more entwined in politics, you may be thinking that the Republicans can't be that unpopular. After all, they control the House of Representatives. And in a normal functioning democracy, both of these claims would hold water. But the GOP has been assaulting Democracy for a few years now so we're looking at a different picture. Congressional districting is left up to the states. The number of districts is awarded based on population. After the census every ten years, states normally go through a redistricting process. Unfortunately for Democracy, the most recent redistricting coincided with a massive victory for Republicans in the 2010 election. The economy was still bad, the Tea Party was at full strength, midterm elections are historically good for the party opposing the president, etc. They won handily at the federal and state level. The state level victories allowed them to rig districts so that Democrat voters would not be equally represented. How did that turn out? [url=http://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AjYj9mXEIO_QdHZCbzJocGtxYkR6OTdZbzZwRUFvS3c#gid=0]Despite getting more votes for Democratic candidates in the House of Representatives, Republicans came out with a sizeable advantage[/url]. So we have a Republican party who has rigged districts to maintain control of the lower house of Congress, and wants to base the presidential election off of those heavily rigged Congressional districts. This would end up erasing a 1.1 million vote lead for House Democrats and 5 million vote lead for the current president, and keeping power in the hand of the conservative political elite even more than it is. But somehow the background checks for guns and extension of unemployment benefits are doing to undermine Democracy.

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  • [quote][b]Posted By:[/b] Mr Silly Man Problems with this post: *You're assuming that this plan represents the views of all Republicans, not just the ones who made it. *You're using a straw man fallacy to try to demonize the Republican party so that the Democratic party looks better. *You're equating all Republicans as being undermining, treasonous traitors which isn't true. *You say that the Republicans have been attacking the very core of democracy without giving sources or even simply explaining why you think that way, besides just being blatantly prejudice and biased.[/quote] Couldn't be said enough.

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    • Republicans are associated with vote rigging, when Adolf Hitler voted for Obama. -_______________________________-

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      • This is true, and recently we are seeing it in Virginia as well. lol Republicans. You are the reason why America is perceived as so ignorant. (Although the general concept of American exceptional-ism is far more powerful wit the GOP, it extends with the Democrats as well).

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      • [url=http://vimeo.com/39115241]Fairly relevant, I think.[/url]

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      • /opinion The other sides saying the same thing about you.

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        • Typical teenage liberal.

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          • i wish there was a party to represent the left in america. all i can see is Extreme Right and Slightly Less Extreme Right. funfact: 'liberal' is what Americans call the leftist position but most of the world would call it the centre or left-of-centre podition.

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            • The sad thing is, one of the founding fathers (James Madison, was it?) already said that a party system would be America's downfall. Looks like he's on the right track to being correct.

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              • The OP speaks the truth. Even in the most recent election (2012), Democrats nationwide won over a million more votes than the GOP. The only reason the GOP still has a House majority is because of gerrymandered districts. The Republican party, in its state today, isn't to be taken seriously. They lie, they cheat, and, perhaps most disturbingly, they promote the most anti-intellectual agendas possible, such as taking no action on climate change and refusing to believe evolution by natural selection as the central tenet of all of biology.

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              • First past the post voting systems are WACK yo!

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              • Problems with this post: *You're assuming that this plan represents the views of all Republicans, not just the ones who made it. *You're using a straw man fallacy to try to demonize the Republican party so that the Democratic party looks better. *You're equating all Republicans as being undermining, treasonous traitors which isn't true. *You say that the Republicans have been attacking the very core of democracy without giving sources or even simply explaining why you think that way, besides just being blatantly prejudice and biased.

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                • Or, you could not be a -blam!-tard and not -blam!- up the system by strategic voting, something that put us in this two party system in the first place.

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                • Edited by The Random: 1/26/2013 2:08:10 PM
                  [quote][b]Posted By:[/b] Zilch You know which party is trying to undermine American democracy? I'll give you a hint. It's not the Democrats.[/quote] Okay so it's obviously not the Democrats... can't be the Republicans either... My guess would have to be [i]The Communist Party of The United States of America[/i] and the [i]Nationalist Socialist Movement[/i]. Did I win? *Sigh* Seriously guys, to say that the Democrats or Republicans are attempting to undermine American Democracy is completely idiotic. Act like you've got some sense people.

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                • It's funny that you think there are any real differences between the Demopublicans and Republicrats.

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                  • Edited by OaklandPaintbalr: 1/25/2013 10:00:17 PM
                    I actually hope we revamp the electoral college. I'd support counting electoral votes by district and not having states do winner-take-all.

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                    • And right now it's any better? Romney lost by barely 100k votes, but lost by over 150 electoral votes. United States, currently, isn't even a democracy. It would be if one vote = one point for your candidate.

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                      • Y'know what's the saddest thing? I would be a Republican, if they actually followed their old, original, Jeffersonian purpose. This is the main reason why I support Democrats. Not because I'm ecstatic for them, but simply because they're the only thing preventing this country from being car-jacked by stupidity. On the bright side, being composed largely of old folks, they'll all be 'This Old Gerrymander Home' within a couple decades, thus allowing Generation Y (which is largely liberal), to infuse fresh blood into the Democrat party, provide it strength, and maybe even return Republicans to what they're supposed to be- Republicans.

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                        • That's false.

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                        • Their idea behind electoral votes is sound, their disctrict gerrymandering is infuriating. I realize there are some immediate issues that could be caused by such a shift, but it's always been my belief that congressional districts should adhere their borders to counties, a pre-estabilshed system. Winner take all electorate votes are an arcane feature, as is most of the electoral college system.

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                          • Sorry if I didn't follow this, but re they trying to essentially enact a proportional representation system of sorts, wherein the weight of a large state's chosen party, say they vote republican- is given more predominance over a smaller state who say votes Democrats. So, even if more states vote democrat, if a couple of bigger states vote republican, they win?

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                          • Edited by xImNotProx: 1/25/2013 10:54:14 PM
                            I already posted this like two days ago. Anyway this is why the Constitution needs to be amended to ban gerrymandering.

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                          • Edited by Hoggs Bison: 1/26/2013 12:10:32 AM
                            ITT: holier-than-thou centrism. Republicans are, objectively, the worst offender [i]by far[/i] in American politics. They are incomparably extremist and obstructionist-- not just by modern standards, but by historical standards. Further reading: [url]http://www.amazon.com/Even-Worse-Than-Looks-Constitutional/dp/0465031331[/url] Edit- worst offender modern American politics. Not trying to diminish the importance of slavery, but today's political parties are nothing like they were in the 19th century. Also, it should be "polarized" instead of "extremist", though they're both technically correct. Still, word choice is important.

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                            • I really hate this system. All the insane governmentors do is tell us what to do. It doesn't matter what party it is; they still want to control your thoughts, lives, and output. The republicans have (in my experience) tried much less to control my life. Therefore, my vote for now rests with them. If they continue to destroy voting abilities or altering the system that isn't broken like you mentioned, then my vote may leave. It sure won't go to the dems though, I'll find someone more deserving. They're just as bad, but over different issues. My only beefs with republicans are the death penalty, and voting. I don't like the death penalty; don't ask why, this post is about voting. I agree with the Republicans that you should need a proof of "investment" in the country to be able to vote, instead of just a piece of mail from an address that you live at. An ID, drivers license, or something similar will do. Also, I believe that voting should not be over one day; let's make it longer, in order to reduce gigantic lines in booths. Plus, all people working the booths should be volunteers. EVEN BETTER: All those involved in the government's highest areas (READ: Congressman, Representatives, Cabinet members, secretaries, etc.) should be forced to volunteer to work a voters booth in their district through all of voting season.

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                            • Edited by Smarkdow: 1/25/2013 8:48:33 PM
                              >mfw people think the U.S. is or is supposed to be a democracy

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                              • [quote]I'll give you a hint. It's not the Democrats.[/quote]You so funny, you make me laugh long time. Look at the core of both parties and discover that they're not very different from each other. Also: >Implying democrats don't gerrymander to get votes.

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                              • >Implying the electoral college isn't an outdated and archaic system

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