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This thread is inspired by another: view original post

Edited by XcEvilGenius: 7/24/2015 11:05:44 PM
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Spreading the Truth About Cheaters is NOT prohibited by the Code of Conduct or Terms of Use

Agree

209

Disagree

66

[b]Edit: you can spread the Truth about cheaters in destiny but you can in no way use there name or anything related to them when doing so. :) my bad...lol. what can i say, i'm Human :D[/b] you are wrong Achronos... Harassment (either harris-meant or huh-rass-meant) n. the act of systematic and/or continued unwanted and annoying actions of one party or a group, including threats and demands. The purposes may vary, including racial prejudice, personal malice, an attempt to force someone to quit a job or grant sexual favors, apply illegal pressure to collect a bill, or merely gain sadistic pleasure from making someone fearful or anxious. Such activities may be the basis for a lawsuit if due to discrimination based on race or sex, a violation on the statutory limitations on collection agencies, involve revenge by an ex-spouse, or be shown to be a form of blackmail ("I'll stop bothering you, if you'll go to bed with me"). The victim may file a petition for a "stay away" (restraining) order, intended to prevent contact by the offensive party. A systematic pattern of harassment by an employee against another worker may subject the employer to a lawsuit for failure to protect the worker. (See: harass, sexual harassment) http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/harassment Harassment has nothing to do with shaming unless you consider shaming the same thing as Defamation since it is in the terms of service [quote]you will not: Defame, abuse, harass, stalk, threaten or otherwise violate the legal rights (such as rights of privacy and publicity) of others.[/quote] this however has nothing to do with cheaters or us posting about them. it is the [u]TRUTH[/u] when players have actual Video of the cheaters. we do so to spread awareness. nothing wrong in that. in order for anyone to Defame someone it[u] must be Slander or intentional False Communication. [/u][b]Having video proof of a cheater does not fit into this category what so ever. [/b] do not believe me? you don;t have to. here is the PROOF. Defame: To damage the reputation, character, or good name of (someone) by slander or libel. http://www.thefreedictionary.com/defame Slander: n. oral defamation, in which someone tells one or more persons an untruth about another which untruth will harm the reputation of the person defamed. Slander is a civil wrong (tort) and can be the basis for a lawsuit. Damages (payoff for worth) for slander may be limited to actual (special) damages unless there is malicious intent, since such damages are usually difficult to specify and harder to prove. Some statements such as an untrue accusation of having committed a crime, having a loathsome disease, or being unable to perform one's occupation are treated as slander per se since the harm and malice are obvious, and therefore usually result in general and even punitive damage recovery by the person harmed. Words spoken over the air on television or radio are treated as libel (written defamation) and not slander on the theory that broadcasting reaches a large audience as much if not more than printed publications. http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/slander Defamation: An Intentional False Communication, Either Written or Spoken, that harms a person's reputation; Decreases there Respect, regard, or confidence in which a person is held; or induces Disparaging, Hostile or Disagreeable opinions or feelings against a person. Defamation may be a criminal or civil charge. It encompasses both written statements, known as libel, and spoken statements, called slander. http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/defamation Libel: to publish in print (including pictures), writing or broadcast through radio, television or film, an untruth about another which will do harm to that person or his/her reputation, by tending to bring the target into ridicule, hatred, scorn or contempt of others. Libel is the written or broadcast form of defamation, distinguished from slander which is oral defamation. It is a tort (civil wrong) making the person or entity (like a newspaper, magazine or political organization) open to a lawsuit for damages by the person who can prove the statement about him/her was a lie. Publication need only be to one person, but it must be a statement which claims to be fact, and is not clearly identified as an opinion. While it is sometimes said that the person making the libelous statement must have been intentional and malicious, actually it need only be obvious that the statement would do harm and is untrue. Proof of malice, however, does allow a party defamed to sue for "general damages" for damage to reputation, while an inadvertent libel limits the damages to actual harm (such as loss of business) called "special damages." "Libel per se" involves statements so vicious that malice is assumed and does not require a proof of intent to get an award of general damages. Libel against the reputation of a person who has died will allow surviving members of the family to bring an action for damages. Most states provide for a party defamed by a periodical to demand a published retraction. If the correction is made, then there is no right to file a lawsuit. Governmental bodies are supposedly immune for actions for libel on the basis that there could be no intent by a non-personal entity, and further, public records are exempt from claims of libel. However, there is at least one known case in which there was a financial settlement as well as a published correction when a state government newsletter incorrectly stated that a dentist had been disciplined for illegal conduct. The rules covering libel against a "public figure" (particularly a political or governmental person) are special, based on U. S. Supreme Court decisions. The key is that to uphold the right to express opinions or fair comment on public figures, the libel must be malicious to constitute grounds for a lawsuit for damages. Minor errors in reporting are not libel, such as saying Mrs. Jones was 55 when she was only 48, or getting an address or title incorrect. 2) v. to broadcast or publish a written defamatory statement. http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/libel Libel Per Se: broadcast or written publication of a false statement about another which accuses him/her of a crime, immoral acts, inability to perform his/her profession, having a loathsome disease (like syphilis), or dishonesty in business. Such claims are considered so obviously harmful that malice need not be proved to obtain a judgment for "general damages," and not just specific losses. http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/libel%20per%20se as you can read, posting the truth about cheaters does not fall into these categories since it is not a lie or false or being done to intentionally harm a person. we do it not to harm, nay we do it only to inform our fellow guardians of the events taking place in Destiny. being well informed allows anyone to make a better choice. with that being said you need to stop removing post notifying the community of cheaters. in order for players//Dev theams to make the best decision on what to do they need to be informed. not informing players or The Dev team/bungie will lead to wrong decisions being made, and we all know how you make wrong moves most of the time Bungie/the Dev team. you really want to pull another one?

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  • Edited by Lost Sols: 7/22/2015 10:03:26 PM
    I have agreed with you on a hundred posts and we've fought Bungie on matchmaking for a couple months now, but I cannot condone or accept this post. 1) Achronos wasn't being disrespectful, he was being humorous. There's a difference between poking a little fun at someone you're directly replying to and going onto a forum and accusing someone who isn't in the thread of cheating. 2) You can't name and shame because it is defamation. [quote]de·fame \di-ˈfām, dē-\verb : to hurt the reputation of (someone or something) especially by saying things that are false or unfair Full Definition de·famedde·fam·ing transitive verb 1 archaic :disgrace 2 :to harm the reputation of by libel or slander 3 archaic :accuse — de·fam·er noun Examples He says he was defamed by reports that falsely identified him as a former gangster.<of course I want to win the election, but I refuse to defame my opponent in order to do so [/quote] 3) For all the people saying stupid shit like Achronos named and shamed the op of that thread or ninjas name and shame by removing nasty posts... [b]Telling someone they're wrong isn't defamation. Telling the world someone did something wrong without proof is.[/b] Videos of people lagging don't prove they're cheating as much as you might think it. And as far as videos go, you can 100% put up videos of people you think are cheating, what you can't do is name them in the post and call them cheaters. The fact is that all the people that others want to say are lag switching, etc probably just have a shitty internet connection going. It happens and yeah it sucks playing them, but the real problem is Bungie not ponying up for dedicated servers. If your interpretation of defamation is correct then if you put up 40 kills sniping and headshot me 15 times in a game, I can put up a video and call you a cheater. Did you cheat? Probably not, but YOU'RE A CHEATER! 4) For f**ks sake people, Achronos is literally the only Bungie employee willing to actually discuss shit with the community and you treat him like this? I'm all for holding Bungie to a high standard, but there need to be rules in place in life and boundaries. I've poked at DeeJ and called him out on numerous occasions, but that's because I don't believe he's doing enough for or with this community and that's supposed to be his job. All this Achronos hate is taking shit too far. I'd like to hear anyone tell me how he disrespected the op in that thread. Forums have boundaries and they have rules. Naming and shaming is about as clearcut as they get. Achronos deserves an apology from this community. Edit: If anyone think people are cheating, report them in game, that's what the function is there for. The forums are not for calling everyone who kills us with Thorn a cheater.

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    • it doesnt matter what is ethically or morally, which depend and are ever flowing, right when we dont control the forum rules. and posting names can be abused. just report to bungie and your consoles network. post a vid on a youtube account or bungies twitter/ redditt page.

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      • 2
        Don't nerf the thorn 📡 hypnotize you with this 📡 I know I can see into the futer 🔮 Wait wrong post

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      • Douche bag Bungie employees said it's prohibited. But according to a Bungie news feed they wanted us to report cheaters so I'm very confused and conflicted with the issue.

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        • Whilst I agree cheaters are douchenozzles, this is the internet. Once their name and actions are out in the wild, they get all kinds of abuse. Cursing, name calling, threats of physical violence, threats of hacking, death threats and so forth and so forth. They get spammed like you wouldnt believe. [b]NOW[/b] A good number of cheaters really couldnt give a -blam!-, in fact most do it to piss others off. However, there are a good number of naive idiots/children who get duped into thinking no-one will notice, or that there will be no comeback. For them, the kind of backlash they'll get is distressing to the extreme. Anyone that naive would deffo take keyboard warrior threats seriously. At the end of the day, Bungie and other such companies will do all they can to prevent such distress from happening. Not because they approve of cheating, or want to baby stupid naive little kids/idiots who create an utter ballache for them, but because parents of said distressed individual will react with overwhelming legal force and Bungie would get the pants sued straight off their collective arse. If you want to name n shame cheaters, if you [i]really[/i] want to open that potentially messy can of worms, you'll have to do it outside of Bungies jurisdiction. Youtube or whatever. Try to ensure you only hurt the nasty little shits. Childish naivety can be remedied via a little scare i.e: "I own a cheat-exposing service and I could -blam!- you up right here and now. Why shouldnt I?" Regardless, they'll be banned soon enough which will drive the point home.

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          • If you care that much about cheaters you need a new hobby. You really think they give to shits what anybody thinks. Theyll just tell people our shit our rules even if u are right.

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            • I don't like how bungie treat their own fans, and exepct them to laugh it off becuase bungie. They have lost all credibility when they shook hands with activision, and now it's like all bungie employees are on their period. Well, you only respect DEEJ when luke smith opens his fat mouth :/

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            • Edited by cbrstar: 7/21/2015 1:00:02 AM
              The whole "But Bungie is trying to stop vigilantism, and harassment" Is just simply wrong. If they were actually concerned about that. They would have banned everyone who ever called another person, a "Scrub" Etc. Or pretty much 90% of people who posted in "Off topic" lol So what are they trying to do? They are trying to curb the whole "I'm telling MOM on you!" mentality that some players have. Sure cheating is happening and it's wrong, but you have to look at this with an business point of view. They don't want to sit there and watch your 30 min video of jerks cheating. It ties up their, time too much. Especially if there is suddenly thousands of posts like this. This is exactly why they came up with the automated reporting system, that doesn't exactly seem to work. The problem to me is, the way Bungie has gone about this is all wrong. Instead of simply stating..Don't waste your time with these posts, cause we won't read them. Which would cause people to eventually stop posting as they were wasting their time. They have ran amok with the Ban Hammer, trying to scare people into submission. Which just isn't very cool Bungie. And I just wanted to remind people that BUNGIE themselves are guilty of this behavior! Remember a couple months ago when ToO was introduced and Bungie announced they are bringing out the BAN HAMMER! They showed a [b]VIDEO[/b] of a group of Devs playing against a group of cheaters! So even they aren't above the so called "Naming and Shaming"

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              • Too long to read, but I think if you cheat, you deserved to be shamed until bungie recognizes you and bans you. Very first trials week a team of lag switchers beat us, I reported them. I assume every game they get reported by multiple people but they gone flawless every week since then with one card each time. I check up on them to see if they still are playing. Just absurd.

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              • [quote] the act of systematic and/or continued unwanted and annoying actions of one party or a group, including threats and demands.[/quote] Naming and shaming is the first step in people receiving annoying messages, getting booted from fire teams, being falsely reported in game, even when they are not doing anything and other forms of annoyance. Doesn't that seem to fit the definition of systematic unwanted and annoying actions by a party? You also have to figure what appears like cheating can often be explained by both active cheating or some kind of glitch or lag. For example spawning with rockets at the beginning of a match could either be the double down perk accidentally activating on spawn in crucible or lab switching. Same with ghost kills, could either be lag switching or just a terrible internet connection. Since there is no way to tell if they are cheating or if it is a glitch/lag (even with a video), Bungie took the conservative approach and said 'all instances of this will be considered harassment', instead of creating some kind of acceptable public shaming. If you find someone in game and you think they are cheating, report them using the in-game reporting system. If it is just a one in a million glitch having only one report against you is no big deal. If they are really cheating, the reports will add up and something will likely be done. Relying on public shaming when you don't even know for sure if they are cheating can result in throngs of 14 yo internet warriors trying to take action because they can hide behind the anonymity of the screen names.

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              • Dear god, these wanna be attorneys.

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                • Hey guys, Achronos here. I see all your points, BUT *puts fingers in ears* LA LA LA LA LA ITS OUR POLICY I WONT LISTEN TO REASON LA LA LA LA LA*

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                • I would like to see them explain why the same cheater has videos of them doing it on multiple weeks of trials and they have not been banned! People call people scrubs,cry babies, etc, etc, ..... Isn't that against the rules ?

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                • Edited by SpillingShorts: 7/20/2015 10:48:35 PM
                  It's Bungie's forum. [quote]Bungie reserves the right to moderate this website and everything on it. These guidelines require your best judgment, so please play nice. If you're not sure if the stuff you're about to share is appropriate for Bungie.net, don’t post it. That'll help you stay clear of the Banhammer's blast radius. [/quote] This can be found on the CoC page. All you really need is the first sentence.

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                • Edited by catrodsan: 7/20/2015 11:04:15 PM
                  As seen at the terms of use. [quote] Bungie has no obligation to monitor the Communication Services. However, Bungie reserves the right to review materials posted to a Communication Service and to remove any materials in its sole discretion. Bungie reserves the right to terminate your access to any or all of the Communication Services at any time without notice for any reason whatsoever. [/quote] I think it's more of the "man hunt" that can happen. Let's face it, there are people who cheat and vigilante justice can be brutal and some people are borderline bullies. Yah they cheated but with all the cases of cyber bullying, I think Bungie is trying to protect themselves much more than these cheaters. If you name and shame and someone got bullied either through these forums or through private messages and it becomes a physical or legal thing, they would be forced to shut forums down. Unfortunately with a big player base it's hard to do it all.

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                • There's really only one aspect of Bungie that I still have faith in and that is a ninja swinging the Banhammer

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                • I've been saying this for months

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                • Working in the Insurance Industry for several years, I've undergone many legal battles...I have to say Achronos, is not only wrong but it's obvious he has no legal training. From the legal perspective the "It's Bungies Way, or the Highway" that Achronos shares is disastrous in legal disputes. In the end it's how the Jude reads the wording that matters, and such biased attitudes can work against you dramatically.

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                  • Bungie doesn't care about cheaters. They say they do but.. They don't. If they did then there would be actions taken instead of promising actions would be taken. All I have seen was a joke of a chiding done in a "stern tone"... Fac Look at the profile pics, tea bagging Spartans, this childish attitude from a Company? Add that too the fact we are really just playing a beta?? Bungie gives no effs. Don't get me wrong.. I tb people all the time, but this is about a company being accountable, and Bungie fails

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                  • Fortunately for bungie. It doesn't really matter what you think. It's their forums and their code of conduct. This topic is a dead horse

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                    • forgot to put it in feedback. xp

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