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originally posted in: Fusions need nerfs
3/30/2022 11:36:28 PM
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I think they need a hard range cap a bit like a shotgun. Whatever Bungie decides that is then that’s on them but I think you shouldn’t get over 18m on any fusion that’s not a high impact. Maybe push these to 23-25m.
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  • They already did exactly that. Only difference was that High Impacts at 0.87 charge time won out because they needed the least amount of bolts, have a weaker version of Firmly Planted built in, and could stretch ever so slightly farther and still do okay. And bar changes in other categories since then, there wouldn't be any reason to run anything that isn't an Adaptive under an 18 meter cap, since they're the fastest charging options that have relative consistency. Since it used to be that you got nothing but very slightly less spread (IE, the cones were slightly smaller) from having more range. Adaptives would be the only real option since Rapids are already super inconsistent, Precisions have little to no benefit, and High Impacts would go from bad to unusable. I'd rather Fusions just be reworked to not have spread, but kick harder.

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  • I meant to bring the cap in even more. I think if adaptive and precision hit well outside slug shotgun range (what’s that now, 12 metres?) and rapid hit around that (charge time and spread vs precision shots) and the high impact hit to that 23-25 (general primary ammo fighting range) then there would be room for all archetypes. I’m not against other changes but I do think changes are needed. As long as most archetypes can easily one shot within primary gun fight ranges, the weapons will always feel cheesey. They just need to be restricted more. Your idea could work and others could also. I’m not saying how we should definitely get to the end goal but just that we need to make a change.

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  • Well, there's a few issues with bringing in the cap much more than where it's at (soft caps at 20 meters, hard caps at 21.5-ish). 1. Slugs already destroy Fusions when they get in there. And while yes, they too need a rework that culminates in a net nerf, 11 meters for instant damage or a close-to instant body + melee vs. a hypothetical 16-18 meter hard cap. 2. Lord of Wolves exists. I think it's range is only 2-3 meters less than the best a Rapid Frame can get (15 meters with any consistency. The 9-bolt pattern and terrible stats means you lose consistency before their actual point of falloff), without any charge time or random spread, which IMHO already close to invalidates Rapids. You'd have to nerf the range on that (which isn't needed) pretty heavily to have it go from being a better option, to outright invalidating things. 3. It brings us back to a scenario of having Fusions being trash in comparison to the shotguns. Sure, pellets need a hard rework to remove random spread and bump the OHK range a meter or two, at the cost of general speed and falling instantly to zero, but that's a different topic. But answer me this, why would I ever consider running a Fusion if a shotgunner can take 2 extra steps and dunk on me? Sure, pre-charging exists, but I'd rather take the option with far more mobility and not having to wind-up for 2/3 of a second over hitting 18 meters. 4. Fusions only outrange Sidearms. SMGs are on par with them at similar Range and Zoom stats (if not better where you get 16-17 zoom, especially considering SMGs don't care as much about stability). Almost every AR, every Pulse, every HC, and every Scout easily outranges any non-exotic Fusion, where the 2 exotics that aren't technically capped have iffy consistency in the case of Telesto, or don't have much raw power, like Jötunn.

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  • Your points are well written but I just disagree with the fact that the 11m shotgun/melee combo vs a 15m-18m OHKO from a fusion is always going to win. The more people use fusions, the more they get better with them and the whole charge time drawback fusions have really does deteriorate. Most players don’t use the defensively and pre-charge and slide around corners to mitigate their limitations as a weapon. In terms of damage fall off, yes sidearms and smgs are the only ones fusions out range but the typical engagement distance is the range that really should be looked at. Most maps I’d say this is 20-30m and this is where fusions are the problem (in my opinion). At this range shotguns of any sort don’t have much of a place and snipers are difficult to use so if fusions were brought in slightly, then I think there would be more primary vs primary fights. And just to go back to the sidearm and smg point. Fusions kill these weapons. The only smgs in the meta are the 2 that can reach into that 20-25m range and sidearms although niche (and actually quite strong) are only seen being used with rangefinder or higher zooms (drang etc). Limiting fusions may increase options for these 2 types of weapons as well.

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  • Yeah true

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