Although I don't care either way, I would like DS. I also have to disagree with you on how P2P affects PvE. Sometimes it is very noticeable (not as much as PvP though)

If I, a person with 3 mb/s down rarely if ever lagged in pve, and in game modes with 6 or less players (meaning skirmish and the rest)...I know I don't give a shit. At worst in pve my mic lags, and that's only during 2 raid bosses, aksis and oryx, the ones notoriously known for being laggy, but ads don't lag, my mic does. Period. Get off the WiFi box, pull out those Ethernet cables, AND START HOOKING SHIT UP!

What I know is I'm lagging and getting kicked in battlefields too

They are adding dedicated servers. It's going to run as a hybrid between dedicated and p2p networking. It wont be foolproof but it'll be a massive upgrade compared to D1

Someone who's been PMing me over the last several hours tried saying that dedicated servers and 60fps are more important than content... Also that bungie are lazy for not inputting either despite working on actually more important things... like content...

[quote]the pole is anonymous.[/quote]

The main difference as I can tell from playing on games with dedicated servers and Destiny is in Destiny you blame p2p bullshit for lag and disconnects. You call Bungie cheap for not investing in dedicated servers. With a dedicated servers you blame the servers for lag and disconnect and call Bungie cheap for not buying better servers. In both cases most of the time playing the game is fine. XD

[quote]I was originally going to just skirt this post, but then you had to come and call it a competitive game, which it is not, and also I'm kind of tired of seeing the same thing ten times over every day, so let's just end it here, now. As an independent game developer, this is a question that comes up very frequently in discussion with potential players, but unless you actually have a network coding background you really wouldn't understand, so here goes. [i]There is a minimal difference between the two networking models as it pertains to game latency[/i]. There, I said it. But Phantom you say, this is obviously not true because every game I play that has dedicated servers is almost lag free and I'm almost always prone to lag in Destiny. The problem you're experiencing here, has almost nothing to do with the source connection, unless the provider of the source connection is just terrible by today's standards, which most games can very easily detect. And dedicated servers experience the same "distance" issue you sometimes experience as well, there's no avoiding it, period. What you're experiencing is a problem with the networking layer of the game itself, and it's very easy to spot these issues in both sides of the game. The Destiny Servers (Which handle things like API requests) are consistently pinging each client with packet requests, which the game's socket system then must process. Meanwhile, the networked instances (Almost everywhere), must also handle requests from the other players, as well as which ever game instance is designated as the "host" instance, if you want to see this for yourself, download the Wireshark program, and have it listen to your console's IP address while you play, you'll see hundreds of requests add up in a manner of seconds. The problem is not that your console can't handle it, it's that the game is still capped at older console standards, even when you're playing on the XB1/PS4, and that's just there to make the code base all that easier to manage for the developers. This is why I find this topic to be completely pointless, and one that needs to go into a hole, and burn already. D2 is running exclusively on the new console generation and PC instances, the hold back isn't going to be an issue here. Don't believe me? Wait until the beta and see for yourself. Secondly, as Bungie has stated, hosting dedicated servers for the scale of the game here would be absolutely silly in these regards, as you would need to either purchase or rent hundreds to even thousands of them to be able to meet the needs of the entire playerbase at a given time. Do the math on those costs, and tell me it's a worthwhile investment.[/quote] [quote]I'm not aware of For Honor's system, as I don't own the game nor have looked too much into it. As for the older consoles restricting the use, it comes down to the console's RAM. Networking instances inside of a "typical" (I use this word here because I don't know how Bungie's engine does this) game engine creates a Network Manager object, which then handles the Socket object instances. Each Socket instance takes a bit of memory up because of what we game developers call Bit Stream objects, or the type of object that transmits bitwise information between server and client. In a game like Destiny, you can have hundreds of these stream instances running at any given time, so from the XB360/PS3 standpoint, you need to cap these objects to a certain point such that the overlap doesn't exceed the RAM of the console (Remember, you need to save it for the other aspects of the game as well). By capping the number of these objects, you're forced to optimization practices such that you can fit as much information in these as possible without going over the limit, this is usually done by clipping down on Doubles (F64's) to Floating Point Numbers (F32's) which can cause some accuracy issues (Stutter). Lag on the other hand can come from packet loss, and when you're cramming this much information into these streams, you can see how even a single packet being lost, can cause some pretty substantial issues. Interpolation usually handles the loss to a point, but remember, Humans don't conform to consistency as computers expect, which is why "lag" can cause some "interesting" things in Destiny.[/quote] -Phantom13927

Dedicated servers won't give u a better k/d if you suck in destiny 1 u will protably suck too in d2.

If not for pvp a majority of people would leave this game.the ones complaining about pvp still play pvp more than pve id bet the house

In short, dedicated servers make in game performance more consistent...and they lower the quality of internet connection that is necessary for in game performance. In a P2P system, the game's servers basically create an loose, ad hoc network of the game consoles of everyone in participating in the activity. Then one console will essentially act as host for the game. Taking on the role that a centralized server would in a dedicated server system. Both running the game, and administering the game world for everyone in the network. But since the host has an advantage where latency is concern, the game switches up which console in the network acts as host at regular intervals (IIRC this is done eveyr 90 secs in a Crucible match). Advantage? This method of networking is inexpensive and flexible since its using the computing power of the consoles to administer the network. Disadvantages? A tremendous amount of information need to pass back and forth between the consoles, so it takes about 1.0 Mbps upload speed to maintain a good quality connection. So the game can run into performance problems if there are lag issues (long distance of pipe between one machine and the next). If someone has poor internet speed (narrow pipes) or poor internet quality (leaky pipes). Also performance is variable because the console that is acting as host is constantly changing so keeping lag compensation consistent is more difficult. Which is why you can get situations where people lag out....or the network collapses and everyone gets kicked out of the game world. Then there's cheating by deliberate manipulating this network. Which is the Bane of Trials of Osiris right now. With dedicated servers all of the functions necessary to administer the network is taken off the consoles and administered by a centralized computer (server). A compute whose only purpose is to administer that network, and has internet connections designed to do so. So what this does is it has several immediate impacts on play. One, it significantly reduces the quality of internet connection needed to maintain a good connection (about 500 kbps). Two, the network is much more stable. Since the host is centralized server, there is no host advantage...and lag compensation is more consistent. Lastly, since the network is being administered by a server that is not under the control of a player, its harder to cheat...and easier to detect if someone is trying to cheat. Disadvantages? Expense...both in construction and maintenance. Less flexible and adaptable. Too few servers...play gets bottle-necked. Too many....and developer gets stuck with the cost of maintaining servers that aren't being used.

I've experienced both P2P and DS connections, and the only time I've had connection issues in Destiny were when MY ISP shit the bed. I honestly think this is the case for most folks who assume that "contacting Destiny servers" is something on Bungies end, when in reality its a local network issue.