I think that hard mode is a good idea, but honestly I think that random teleporting in normal should be okay and hard should be above that. I (and two others) entered the VoG for the first time last night (seriously the first thing I did in the Templar battle was step off the edge...) and got the universal remote, aetheons auto rifle and a legendary chest piece. Didn't know any of the fights but the guy who led us explained it well, we wiped probably 5 times per encounter and finished in maybe 90 minutes. I went from spinning around thinking 'wait, what's an oracle, why are they telling me to use the relic, use it how?' To actually contributing. Could we have done it that well without someone who had done it before? No of course not, but with half of us with no experience and level 27 I'd say if anything that it was too easy (or perhaps with no people with experience which is who it would be geared towards just right), hard mode to me should be hard. For example in addition to the relic holder cleansing/damaging things it could stack a debuff that increases damage taken by 1%,2%, 3% per second meaning you have to drop it and switch holders, or maybe a stacking DoT. This to me would stop one person being the 'relic' holder and ensure that all people would eventually be able to fulfill most roles. I understand why people are annoyed, that they had learnt roles and things that had worked for their fireteam etc. that it helped hide inexperienced members by loading the responsibility more on other members, but is that really best? Yes people will die more, yes people will have to learn new roles and might get teleported into the portals and have to figure out who is grabbing the relic/killing oracles. But that's what the RAID is for! It was supposed to require coordination, team work, changing strategies on the fly, working together and altering things if someone got an unlucky strike and dies. Relic holder died, just going to wipe or can someone else pick up the relic for the 30seconds it'll take to get him back? If this means you go from a 1 hour clear back to a 2 hour clear (or 3 or 4) until all your members are better skilled them to me that's better, it's not a loot pinata that you hit until your exotic falls out, it's the end game content that is supposed to be the culmination of your skills not 'Hey, can you run me through VoG?' If it were too easy then we'd just see 'OMG Bungie this is too easy, now everyone is getting raid items, can't believe you nerfed this!' Final thought: I wish that it were harder (and more so than 'Lol that blast just does 3x the damage as usual, one shot, learn to dodge better') and there were more mechanics to master needed for each boss (also the gorgon maze was two corridors...the hardest part for me was going down that dark tunnel with all the drops, I couldn't see crap without throwing grenades with my brightness up :P)

[quote] I am good in and out of the portal and can handle the relic fine. I am speaking for those who can't and are use to their roles. It is going to create mass confusion when people are going to decide what they need to do on the fly. People will start to get angry at each other.[/quote] What has been said time and time again by Bungie (paraphrasing of course) is that everyone SHOULD be able to (and will NEED to) perform each task/job/duty which is set before their fire-team or party be it in a raid, strike, or otherwise. Just from basic raid encounter experience (unless you are hiding in a group for 40 mans) you will need to know the encounter, each phase, each aspect, and be able to perform for your group. Random selection has always been a large part of raid encounters. It should not be so calculated and predictable. It is supposed to be difficult. It is supposed to challenge players and mix up strategy. This is NOT call of duty. Not everything is handed to you on a silver platter. People have taken weeks or even months to perfect raid strategy. This is a sped up version of that, of course. But the development of strategy and the perfection of all tasks is just a part of the encounter. If you don't want to learn, don't enter the encounter. Isn't that as simple as it gets?

i am 50% 50% with those baby bumpers I dont agree with them because we should be able to knock him off because its gravity i think they should make it harder to knock him off and spawn some vex there to make it harder because i believe there should be more thn 1 way to pass the raid... but im ok with the baby bumpers too... now all the random transporting is going to mess up our strategy we will be constantly fighting and it will be alot harder to even teach the new people that is the first time on the raid... this is a really good game but i dont unerstand they do an update and fix some stuff and make it better but at the same time they mess good things up.. deej please dont let that uptade out it will mess it all up

I think that people don't realize this is Bungie's game, their baby(so to speak). They should make it how they please. If they're open to feedback, that's awesome! But they don't have to listen to us or make changes to appease us. I'm also okay with these changes. I've been inside and outside the portals and I've shot oracles and used the relic. So I know what I'm doing, and I think it's a good thing that other people will be able to break out of their comfort zone and try something new. It will be difficult at first and you might get frustrated, but I think people will get it down. Not to mention Atheon is supposed to be the hardest boss battle and it feels like the easiest. The Gatekeeper is the hardest and the Templar(his entire mission) is harder. So it adds a much needed difficulty boost.

the random port fix should address the bug where only two people get ported at a time.

Why do you still make questions to Deej or Bungie??? They never reply to us!

I disagree. I think randomly teleporting three players makes sense when it comes to the rest of the gameplay in Destiny. We don't need to fill roles in this game, so having dedicated relic holders is pointless. I also don't agree with the "baby bumpers." I don't support the knock off exploit but that is definitely not a bug. DeeJ is a liar. That is part of the game design because any enemy can be knocked off an edge just as any guardian can fall off. I believe they should have dedicated the time and resources to update Atheon's AI to make him aware of the death from falling, so instead of walking off, he could take the grenade damage or rage and charge the player.

boo hoo, this game is so boring, i wish more fights were like sword of crota, everything is so repetitive WHAT?! I might have to pick up a relic and/or go inside a time portal?! wtf bungie?! you people disgust me. sad thing is it's actually easier to play with the relic

I don't see the big deal. The only thing that is strange to me is it seems like bungie is hiding behind (its a bug) that seems a little shady to me. I don't really care about the change though.

Don't raid on hard with people who can't do every roll... or play with people who can't adapted and thus your fireteam will fail for hours... "we got it this time guys" lol.. just saying most people who are mad never did the whole raid there checkpoint scrubs and got lucky loot yeah all u fake 30s out there..super lucky sobs lol... but I'm ready to do the raid on hard and see how well my team manages to slap this boss.. we just gotta watch out for one guy who can't help but died where ever he goes so we give him all the easy jobs... sit in the middle.. denfend the right side.. go hide, shoot orcales lol.. I don't think people should stress out this gives your fireteam a chance to know every part of the raid.. well the ending atleast but that's not very complex anyway. Go inside make sure relic doesn't die shoot oracles... sit out side shoot supplicants and shoot boss with your down time.. people who are only "good/comfortable" doing one part well its time to break out of your comfort zone. Good luck gaurdians... don't stress.. "GAURDIANS MAKE THERE OWN FATE"!!! best raid line gets me pumped lol... see yall starside.. there may be miss spelled things and typos so I do apologize I'm kinda a dope when I post on my phone and dont care to go back and change anything either... well cya.

I'm fine with the update as long a they put the Atheon random porting in the hard mode difficulty only, by then most players should know how to handle each encounter and role. It's called hard mode for a reason, keep normal alone so fresh raiders can still learn the raid. Edit:1 So many likes, hope Bungie or Deej sees this. Edit:2 Made a post about this so more people can see this. http://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/74045167/0/0/1

No one from Bungie will respond because they got your money and don't care anymore lol