Bungie themselves have compared the raids to MMO's (hence the terminology)... It's in my OP: [quote]Raids are “extremely crafted,” six-player, friends-only gauntlet runs that might best be described as gut-checks. Yes, they will be difficult, and they will absolutely require communication and cooperation. That’s why Bungie isn’t supporting matchmaking for them; the developers don’t want them to be played by disparate groups of strangers. But Smith is quick to point out that they’re not like Strikes – the instanced dungeon-like runs that might take a mere 20-60 minutes – but more like MMO raids in that you’re going to want to buckle up and get comfortable for a couple hours... ...And then, Smith added ominously, “It's getting people together and getting them into a group and making your way down to the Vault of Glass and seeing what's at the bottom of it – if you can get that far.” That’s not to say raids will be impossible, but this is Bungie, after all – a studio famous for challenging fans with the Legendary difficulty setting in its Halo games: “One of the things we have never talked about – we haven't really talked about raiding at all,” Smith starts. “One of the things we certainly haven't talked about is that [raids aren’t] an activity that we expect you to get through the first time through."[/quote]

Yes they have used MMOs as a reference point for the raids. Probably because until now raids were only a MMO feature. They have still held throughout development and promotion that Destiny is NOT a MMO. I don't like that there is no matchmaking. I really don't understand why there wouldn't be. If you prefer to run with a group of friends who you know and enjoy playing with you can make your own party and play. Why wouldn't you want matchmaking for people who want to play all the facets of Destiny but for whatever reason don't have a group of friends to play with?

This is also in my OP: [quote]What does happen, however, is the people who pug the raids generally complain and complain and complain that they can never finish a raid no matter how hard they try and that x, y, and z mechanics need to be nerfed (when in reality they don't as 99.9% it's a coordination issue), and these things then get nerfed. Then, something else needs to be nerfed. Before you know it (and this has happened to every game that has implemented a group finding system for difficult PvE content), content is being nerfed across the board. I seriously despise having to say this because I rarely get along with this group, but the elite and/or hardcore crowd is necessary for long-running games to survive. The hardcore crowd tests all of the new endgame content because they are always the first to get there, they give the best feedback on mechanics as they've been playing for far longer and with much more gusto than the average gamer, and they not only stick around the longest, but they are consistent in that there aren't large gaps in their playing record as is seen in many, many long-running games. (Ask someone how many times they've quit and returned to WoW or other MMO's.)[/quote]

So you are scared they will drastically scale down the difficulty if they allowed matchmaking? Or they could just give the option to play in a matchmaking lobby and keep the difficulty where it is. If individual "A" has had success in the raid and individual "B" has not that may only mean that individual "B" doesn't have as many friends within the game. I can't believe that Destiny wants to exclude folks from playing.

[quote]So you are scared they will drastically scale down the difficulty if they allowed matchmaking?[/quote] Yes. What was that old BSG saying? "All of this has happened before, and all of this will happen again." (Basically, history repeats itself, and I don't want it to happen in Destiny.) [quote]If individual "A" has had success in the raid and individual "B" has not that may only mean that individual "B" doesn't have as many friends within the game. I can't believe that Destiny wants to exclude folks from playing.[/quote] You are framing this incorrectly. The idea is exactly the opposite: Bungie wants to [i]include[/i] as many people as possible by [i]not using[/i] a matchmaking system. Destiny is a cooperative, social world. The game is designed in a way that meet and run into new people constantly, and you are able to interact with these people at your whim. These are the people you'll end up raiding with. Also, Bungie has implemented a clan / group system (albeit incomplete at the moment) to help ease people into this world. Of course, you can also choose to be the lone wolf, and I will respect you for doing so. As I mentioned, though, Bungie designed this game for people to cooperate and play together. For example, I met four people in the first two days of the Beta that I will be playing with at release and will likely be raiding and PvP'ing with them through the game. And that was just two days of a Beta without even trying to meet people. Do you see what I'm getting at here?

Destiny is supposed to be a game where you meet and interact with new people. That's not quite the way it works now. Creating a fire team or inviting others to a party was one of the biggest problems with the beta. I understand that they wish to protect everyone from the individuals who will be vulgar and inappropriate. A better system for creating a fire team/party is needed because waving and dancing isn't going to get it done. And the main reason why the raids will be different in Destiny is because it will be much more skill oriented. It's not going to depend on "specing" as much as WOW. Yes you will need to have high attack and defense but the majority of the skills you will need is communication, teamwork, and FPS skills, all of which would be fine in a matchmaking environment.

[quote]Creating a fire team or inviting others to a party was one of the biggest problems with the beta.[/quote] I agree and never argued otherwise. [quote]It's not going to depend on "specing" as much as WOW. [/quote] Did you ever play WoW? "Speccing" was universal, and everyone copied the best builds from online (which is why it no longer exists). [quote]Yes you will need to have high attack and defense but the majority of the skills you will need is communication, teamwork, and FPS skills, all of which would be fine in a matchmaking environment.[/quote] Have you ever tried to coordinate a raid with entirely random people? Or even with mostly people you know? Have you ever coordinated a raid in general? I have to assume that you haven't because the experience of those of us who have is entirely the opposite.

No I haven't done a lot of raiding in a game like WOW. One if the main reasons for that is the high barrier for entry. Finding a group to play with especially one who won't look at stats, or gear and will just welcome a new gamer is an unnecessary barrier to put in a game. Look at the COD series with the zombies, survival, and extinction playlists. They are often very difficult to complete in matchmaking and much easier when tackled with a party. In those modes at least everyone has an easy way to play.

The fact that you compare "zombies" and "horde" game modes to raiding is laughable and somewhat cute.