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Edited by ROBERTO jh:
10/15/2013 12:29:29 PM
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Gen 2 armor is more advanced; Frank O'Connor has said that while out of armor a SII would handily beat a SIV, in-armor they're fairly equal.
So Gen2 MJOLNIR boosts a normal human to the level of a fully armored Spartan II. So long as they can punch through tanks, outrun a car and shoot with superhuman accuracy, yes they are still Spartans in practice whether you like it or not.
Although normal human is relative here.
[quote]Bones are infused with a substance that makes them nearly unbreakable.
Muscles are injected with a material that allows them to work harder without breaking the subject's skeleton.
Corneal implants are provided to improve night vision.
Heart is implanted with a synthetic weave which significantly increases its capacity to pump blood, allegedly allowing a SPARTAN-IV to "outrun a horse".
Lungs are lined with a polymer that enhances oxygen intake and allows them to process toxins or foreign gas mixtures, potentially allowing a SPARTAN-IV to breathe methane for around an hour.
Intestinal bacteria are altered to enable the digestive system to absorb more nutrients out of food.
Pancreas is replaced by a completely new, vat-grown organ.
Blood is altered to allow for faster clotting.
Subject is given several implants to help medical teams keep tabs on them.[28]
A series of additional augmentations were included in the earliest, prototypical phase of the program. While these enhancements would have made the Spartans significantly stronger and more resistant to injury, they proved to have an unacceptable casualty rate, killing or crippling nine of the ten initial candidates while leaving the sole survivor mentally unstable.[22] [/quote]
They don't have the same level of strength unarmored, but they DO have advantages no other Spartan has.
English
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Remember how in the fall of reach they said mjolnir armor will literally tear the arms of a human who tries to use it because their reaction times can't cope with the armor response times?
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Alright, punching through tanks. That's now how I will define whether someone is a spartan or not. Because that's just awesome
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Where is all that info from? I can´t recall seeing all that anywhere, not even in Archive. Source?
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Have you read Initiation or are you just getting all of your info second hand? http://www.halopedia.org/images/f/fb/HI-SpartanIV-Augmentations-Panels.jpg
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I haven´t read any of the comics. I tend to stick to novels and get all the info of the comics (that usually isn´t anything important) second hand. Most of those augmentations are passive, and I assume to work joint with MJOLNIR. MJOLNIR compensates for augmentations that they are missing, like the enhanced reaction times.
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Gen2 Mjolnir? As in Mark VII?
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Nope, Mark VII is the latest of the first generation MJOLNIR. The second generation is intended for the Spartan-IVs, to make up for their comparatively inferior augmentations.
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Ah ok, hadn't heard of that.
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And so long as there is some sort of augmentation, which has been stated, they are Spartans.
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No augmentation earns the title of Super Soldier, not Spartan.
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[quote]No augmentation earns the title of Super Soldier, not Spartan.[/quote] Really? So we are talking Captain America now? Because last I checked, in the Halo Universe, only those that had augmentation were considered Spartans. The Spartan IIs were considered Spartans before they even got their armor. They even captured a Insurrectionist leader before they were given Mjolinr armor.
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Captain America is augmented through chemical means, he is very literally described as a super solider. The augmentation, chemical enchantment, or even armour make them super soldiers. What made the SIIs and SIIIs go beyond that to become Spartans was that they were trained from childhood, hell that was the very reason they were named as such, because the ancient Spartans of Greece were trained from childbirth (That and there were 300ish original candidates for the SII programme). I'm sorry but these new guys are just Super Soldiers, they are not on the level of Spartans, there not on the level of warriors that have literally only ever known war.
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[quote]Captain America is augmented through chemical means, he is very literally described as a super solider. The augmentation, chemical enchantment, or even armour make them super soldiers. What made the SIIs and SIIIs go beyond that to become Spartans was that they were trained from childhood, hell that was the very reason they were named as such, because the ancient Spartans of Greece were trained from childbirth (That and there were 300ish original candidates for the SII programme). I'm sorry but these new guys are just Super Soldiers, they are not on the level of Spartans, there not on the level of warriors that have literally only ever known war.[/quote] Nice history lesson. But unless you can show me where in the Halo Universe that states there are other soldiers that have been augmented outside of the Spartan program or Project Orion, which was the precursor to the Spartan II program, they are Spartans because of the augmentation.
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You ask me to mention a time they have been augmented outside of the Spartan Programme and then tell me I can't use the other time they have done so. Yes Project Orion was a precursor to the Spartan programme but it was by no means the Spartan Programme. Orion took veterans and augmented them into super soldiers, the project failed because the technology wasn't there. They were literally just super soldiers, not Spartans, and in all honesty our new Super Troopers are more akin to this programme. You can't argue with the reason they were called Spartans, and the reason they were called Spartans by Doctor Halsey was because they were trained from childhood to be the best possible warriors. The Spartan II and IIIs both fit the bill in this respect but you super troopers don't. James, John, Kelly... they were all Spartans before they received the augmentation, able to outplay both Marines and ODSTs before they entered into puberty. The Augmentation and Armour didn't make them Spartans, they make them Super Soldiers but that isn't what earns them the namesake of Spartans. Your super troopers are Orion 2.0, Marines and ODSTs turned into Super Soldiers but as I said in a different post, Spartans are battle hardened veterans qualified for the highest ranks of the UNSC at the age one of your troopers would just be entering the academy.
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[quote]You can't argue with the reason they were called Spartans, and the reason they were called Spartans by Doctor Halsey was because they were trained from childhood to be the best possible warriors. The Spartan II and IIIs both fit the bill in this respect but you super troopers don't. James, John, Kelly... they were all Spartans before they received the augmentation, able to outplay both Marines and ODSTs before they entered puberty.[/quote] What!? Where are you getting this from?
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Either the fall of Reach or Halsey's journey, she references the likeness to the Spartans of earth (there being roughly 300 of them and being trained from children) and brands them as such. It's in one the pieces of material that have reference to there training.
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[quote]able to outplay marines and ODST[/quote] More specifically, this quote. This was [i]not[/i] in The Fall of Reach.
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In the book they go up against Marines in a training exercise, they outplay said Marines and steal the Pelican they were guarding, other instances also appeared in the book.
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Okay, but what about the ODSTs? The only instance I can recall of a Spartan fighting ODSTs was John fighting those pricks in the gym.
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Oh yeah. Although that was just one time.
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[quote]Your super troopers are Orion 2.0, Marines and ODSTs turned into Super Soldiers but as I said in a different post, Spartans are battle hardened veterans qualified for the highest ranks of the UNSC at the age one of your troopers would just be entering the academy.[/quote] That's funny, I always thought that they were called Spartans because that's what the people who actually matter called them. They're Spartans, whether you like it or not. They may not be trained from childhood, but they are the best of the best, handpicked from across the UNSC for their exceptional skills in war. They may not have been trained since birth, but they damn well would have had they been selected. All that matters is their performance, and it has been said by none other than Frankie that an armored Spartan IV II are equal in ability.
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What they are called and what they deserve to be called are two entirely different things. Oh and yes a Spartan IV in the newest armour is equivalent to a Spartan II in there older armour in terms of physical capability. In terms of actually fighting ability, any logical person would give it the Spartan IIs and IIIs but then any logical person is trying to regulate anything outside of the new trilogy obsolete.
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[quote]What they are called and what they deserve to be called are two entirely different things.[/quote] "Deserve" to be called? The IIs and IIIs don't "deserve" to be called Spartans, as none of them were actually born in Sparta. [quote]Oh and yes a Spartan IV in the newest armour is equivalent to a Spartan II in there older armour in terms of physical capability. In terms of actually fighting ability, any logical person would give it the Spartan IIs and IIIs[/quote] Why? Because they were put through hell as children and mentally screwed up? The IVs are trained marines and ODSTs who survived the war without having to hide behind energy shields and borderline-magic armor. They're already more badass than the IIs and IIIs.
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Edited by ch33zy burrito: 10/17/2013 1:56:46 AM[quote]border-line magic armor[/quote] Everything in MJOLNIR has a reason behind it. Although I pretty much agree with you completely.
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Same, and SIV have augments unlike any other Spartan. I also read somewhere they only need 3 hours of sleep every 48 hours.
