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1/2/2013 5:10:47 AM
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Harlow

A huge problem with this community

Before I begin, let me clarify something. This thread is mostly in reference to threads on the Flood, because the Septagon is saturated with employees, moderators, and people dedicated to pleasing the previous two groups, and because the game forums have effectively died. Bungie.net has a culture problem. A culture problem that I believe is detrimental to the growth and success of the website. Hostility is not really something I see talked about much here so I figured this was worth a thread. The Flood's not a pleasant place, and it never really has been. In fact, it got so bad that the Big Man had to step in and [url=http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=26466683]do this[/url]. It kind of feels like the entire community, moderators and members both, have forgotten [url=http://www.bungie.net/Help/content_viewer.aspx?link=conduct]that being a jerk is a bad thing.[/url] Anyone who posts often on the Flood can see this. People are constantly tossing around insults, and pretty nasty ones at that. For some reason, no one seems to care anymore - maybe because we're dark, or maybe because we've just all gotten lazy or grown out of being bothered by such things. [url=http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=76620787]Just look through a few[/url] [url=http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=76616824]pages from a couple of threads made since yesterday.[/url] Let me stop here and say that I am not trying to be negative and judgmental towards the moderation team. I know that holding that position is difficult from experience elsewhere, I know how exhausting and bothersome the job is. I'm aware that moderators can't be everywhere at all times to ban people who are hurling nasty insults at someone. This is just as much a call to members. Every one of us are given a report button so we can help keep the forums clean, but who really uses it unless they're upset over something an OP said? How often do you see a post reported aside from OPs and harmful links? The sheer nastiness that can be seen just by scanning over any somewhat long thread is astounding. Maybe moderators don't ban people within threads because they don't see them. Maybe the same is true for people not reporting a post. I can't tell you how many times I've seen a moderator lock an exceptionally long thread, that everyone knows is nothing but a cluster-blam!- of angry people spewing hate at each other, and not bother to even read the second post. Like I said, I understand when you just don't see it, but why in the hell are people in these huge threads not reporting these types of posts? I know that people will be jerks on the internet, and I'm not expecting it to change. But can we please do something to get rid of this toxicity before new people start pouring in? People have strong opinions on things, and they're certainly entitled to them, but why do you have to insult someone by saying you can't tell if she's a boy or a girl? Why do you have to say nasty things to non-heteros, or females, or people who don't like the same private group as you do? Why is any of this tolerated at all? Allowing this stuff to go on is just running people away from the site, because a civilized person has no reason to spend their time being involved in a community that harbors these types of people. I know what the responses will be to this post. People will tell me how I'm being too sensitive and how it's just the way the internet is. People will tell me I'm one of the jerks. And look, I know I overstep the line sometimes when I'm joking. None of us are perfect, but I don't think asking members to attempt to be decent (and mods to enforce decency when needed) is too much to ask. You can ignore this problem all you want, but I know from talking to others that I'm not the only person who sees this. It's a real problem that needs to be fixed.
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  • You make some genuinely good statements, but, I can't see any point in this post until you share some ideas on [i]how[/i] you think this problem could be fixed. I mean, as you said, this [i]is[/i] the Internet, and people [i]are[/i] going to be jerks. Not that I disagree with anything you're saying, but...welcome to the Internet.
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  • I think you gotta sometimes make some clarity between a genuine insult, and a joke. I'm a Floodian, and I understand that it is a hostile place, but in it's own way - it's all part of the fun. Even with the old banning system, the Flood hasn't changed much in comparison.
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  • Edited by Commander Tempu: 7/21/2013 2:30:02 PM
    The problem i see is that people here could respect one another better. The problem is that you cannot force them to want to act normal. Many in off topic(As the Flood is dead) try to cling to a time long ago. Its gone now and its time to grow up. Trolls will be trolls yet also you have to balance the fun factor. The community must want to enforce such but with dumb asses like Spartan Ken 15 running amuck this will never happen as the majority are people who troll or simply have little compassion or understanding for others. To them fun is being rude or to garner negative attention to impress those they identify with. The thing is they fail to grasp simple instructions on how to behave let alone how to converse in a normal way or make a joke. A joke to them is a matter of perception but in the end it is how we wanted to be treated. If i treated many of the trolls each day the same way they treat others they would try to demand i show them respect. It would be a battle they would loose as simply it does not occur to them to have class at the end of the day. Only way for a kid to get sick of something is if it is so much they do not like it any more. The community lets it happen nor do they take a proactive role in shaping this community. That is fun and happening. Crying about others being fanboys or making crappy posts about how others suck just shows you the lack of community they have. Most cultures banish those who refuse to fit in. Things change even the trolls. At the end of the day i know that if some guy does not respect me i will tell him off but have respect for my self not to go to his or her level to become what they value. Stupid seems to be the new cool these days. The worse it is the more people think its funny and they never look past today or even tomorrow. Many out grow such things or become better with timing. A joke is not to be spiteful with harmful remarks. A joke is good timing, relevant or funny. pertains to a situation, Has some truth to it. Also you control you as if you expect other people to control you and you have no guidelines then sadly you have no direction in life then will seek to rebel all the time. You must find your worth. I find that the internet has many who are dissatisfied with life so they bring other people down to bring them up. Sadly they are shallow people like your average troll. I think that the community needs to examine things do some soul searching to keep things fun before the fun gets ruined. Then those who troll will feel the hurt as they should have listened when Archronos nuked the flood. The moderators cannot do everything. They need help yet this community not to over do it but to find a balance that works. "Evil wins if good men do nothing."
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    • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Edmi Wohusee [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] spartain ken 15 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] dmg04 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Harlow I don't think most of you people in the Septagon realize how much of a joke that forum is around the site. Not only in the Flood but in just about every single private community I can think of.[/quote] Sorry guys, Couldn't help it. Just doesn't feel right having been called "hostile" earlier in the thread when I was doing nothing of the sort, then remembering this PM that I received in October of 2012. Elite Mouse said it correctly; Harlow does not like the way he is treated outside of his private group. This thread is nothing but a self interest sort of thing, and it's rather silly. And harlow, one thing I have noticed; Any time I've noticed you in the flood, you've been being a total jerk to people who have attacked you. If you honestly believe that there is too much hostility in the flood, you can start by not replying to the people attacking you. Just because you're defending yourself doesn't mean the hostility [i]isn't[/i] hostile. And to relate this to the OP for all members to understand the point I'm trying to make; If you honestly have an issue with the amount of negativity in this forum, you can start fixing it through your own posts. Chorizo pointed out the golden tip of 'leading by example'. Do unto others... all that jazz. [u]This OP really does feel like a troll thread now.[/u][/quote] Yeah, that is why I never take many of the threads made by harlow/Jay seriously because they go and laugh at everyone posting in them in Sapphire. I think this shows that depending on how you present yourself what kind of reaction you should expect from people. All these threads made by them is meant to rile up people. [/quote] Oh, please. I have nothing against the mods. In fact, I've even helped them on certain occasions, like reporting the appearance of nudes of a certain member within a private group that one of them is the admin of before it could spread. I've never had any problems in my experience with the mods in my experience. But I know I have bent the rules before, and I got off easy, and that's my problem. People take things like "lolno" and "you're stupid" way too light heartily. They're detrimental to the community, provide no discussion, and ultimately can discourage active discussions. I don't consider this being a jerk, I consider it a nuisance. Things like these need to be cracked down upon, as there's no reason they should be allowed to flourish like this. You're making excuses for an easily fixed, but consistent problem. Harlow brings up perfectly valid points. It may be the internet, but that doesn't mean that rules within the site cannot be enforced. I haven't been here for very long, but I'm still a member of this community, and as a member of this community, I can share my opinion. I'm not mythic, or legendary. But I have just as much say as anyone here... not that we have any rights.[/quote] I had to check if you were from Sapphire, you are. Harlow's points are negative to the community and contradictory. I also know you guys probably have a thread in Sapphire right now to laugh at people's riled up responses and get people to support the OP. I think the community has gotten a lot better. The Flood is not under marshal law anymore. [Edited on 01.02.2013 7:12 PM PST]
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      • Seriously, -blam!- these forums. Nuke it all but the Destiny section, so we can all you know....DISUCSS -blam!-ING DESTINY. If you don't want to, leave.
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        8 Replies
        • I think this is just a part in a bigger problem overall. Many people left when it switched to Bungie.next, and many that remained have just been socially awkward introverts. They constantly self-hate and hate on humanity as a whole, so it's only natural that they would be hostile towards everyone else. The problems on the website are solvable, moderation is a big part, but I think a bigger part is the users of this forum need a new outlook on how they view life.
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        • Its not just the forums its humanity.
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        • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] deltahalo UK [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Kai Hiwatari I wonder if there will be Yellow Text in this thread.[/quote] I think they will reward me for not participating in this thread I helped :)[/quote] I tried contributing but got ignored :C
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        • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Kai Hiwatari I wonder if there will be Yellow Text in this thread.[/quote] I think they will reward me for not participating in this thread I helped :)
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        • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Kai Hiwatari I wonder if there will be Yellow Text in this thread.[/quote]I hope not, as it's a rather embarrassing thread. They'll be coming back from winter holiday soon. I hope this isn't the first thing they see.
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        • I wonder if there will be Yellow Text in this thread.
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        • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Edmi Wohusee [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] spartain ken 15 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Rogue soldier11 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] spartain ken 15 I also know you guys probably have a thread in Sapphire right now to laugh at people's riled up responses and get people to support the OP.[/quote] There's nothing in Sapphire right now about the thread.[/quote] Thank you for confirming that There just seems to be a pattern with [i]these[/i] threads I have noticed. I think generalizing the entire community is bad. [/quote] Like what you just did with Sapphire? There's nothing in there about generalizing an entire community. And I haven't noticed a pattern. Please, explain.[/quote] There have been threads that have been made, similar to this one, that have been made to rile people up and make huge assumptions about the community coming from people who don't even post in the mains or want to make outlandish statements to get a reaction. That is why I take [i]these[/i] threads by certain users with a grain of salt. There are certain groups and users that cause problems but not everyone is a problem. The community as a whole is pretty good. Do we have problems? yes, but so does every other community. We have our trolls, spammers, and people who just want to make sure you have a bad time. Those are things that need to be addressed but we should also make sure to not make it a big deal at least not publicly to give people gratification.
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        • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] spartain ken 15 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Rogue soldier11 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] spartain ken 15 I also know you guys probably have a thread in Sapphire right now to laugh at people's riled up responses and get people to support the OP.[/quote] There's nothing in Sapphire right now about the thread.[/quote] Thank you for confirming that There just seems to be a pattern with [i]these[/i] threads I have noticed. I think generalizing the entire community is bad. [/quote] I see where you're coming from. They used to show up all the time when the Halo 3/Reach forums were active. [Edited on 01.02.2013 7:20 PM PST]
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        • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] spartain ken 15 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Rogue soldier11 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] spartain ken 15 I also know you guys probably have a thread in Sapphire right now to laugh at people's riled up responses and get people to support the OP.[/quote] There's nothing in Sapphire right now about the thread.[/quote] Thank you for confirming that There just seems to be a pattern with [i]these[/i] threads I have noticed. I think generalizing the entire community is bad. [/quote] Like what you just did with Sapphire? There's nothing in there about generalizing an entire community. And I haven't noticed a pattern. Please, explain.
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        • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Rogue soldier11 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] spartain ken 15 I also know you guys probably have a thread in Sapphire right now to laugh at people's riled up responses and get people to support the OP.[/quote] There's nothing in Sapphire right now about the thread.[/quote] Thank you for confirming that There just seems to be a pattern with [i]these[/i] threads I have noticed. I think generalizing the entire community is bad.
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        • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] spartain ken 15 I also know you guys probably have a thread in Sapphire right now to laugh at people's riled up responses and get people to support the OP.[/quote] There's nothing in Sapphire right now about the thread.
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        • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] spartain ken 15 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Edmi Wohusee [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] spartain ken 15 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] dmg04 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Harlow I don't think most of you people in the Septagon realize how much of a joke that forum is around the site. Not only in the Flood but in just about every single private community I can think of.[/quote] Sorry guys, Couldn't help it. Just doesn't feel right having been called "hostile" earlier in the thread when I was doing nothing of the sort, then remembering this PM that I received in October of 2012. Elite Mouse said it correctly; Harlow does not like the way he is treated outside of his private group. This thread is nothing but a self interest sort of thing, and it's rather silly. And harlow, one thing I have noticed; Any time I've noticed you in the flood, you've been being a total jerk to people who have attacked you. If you honestly believe that there is too much hostility in the flood, you can start by not replying to the people attacking you. Just because you're defending yourself doesn't mean the hostility [i]isn't[/i] hostile. And to relate this to the OP for all members to understand the point I'm trying to make; If you honestly have an issue with the amount of negativity in this forum, you can start fixing it through your own posts. Chorizo pointed out the golden tip of 'leading by example'. Do unto others... all that jazz. [u]This OP really does feel like a troll thread now.[/u][/quote] Yeah, that is why I never take many of the threads made by harlow/Jay seriously because they go and laugh at everyone posting in them in Sapphire. I think this shows that depending on how you present yourself what kind of reaction you should expect from people. All these threads made by them is meant to rile up people. [/quote] Oh, please. I have nothing against the mods. In fact, I've even helped them on certain occasions, like reporting the appearance of nudes of a certain member within a private group that one of them is the admin of before it could spread. I've never had any problems in my experience with the mods in my experience. But I know I have bent the rules before, and I got off easy, and that's my problem. People take things like "lolno" and "you're stupid" way too light heartily. They're detrimental to the community, provide no discussion, and ultimately can discourage active discussions. I don't consider this being a jerk, I consider it a nuisance. Things like these need to be cracked down upon, as there's no reason they should be allowed to flourish like this. You're making excuses for an easily fixed, but consistent problem. Harlow brings up perfectly valid points. It may be the internet, but that doesn't mean that rules within the site cannot be enforced. I haven't been here for very long, but I'm still a member of this community, and as a member of this community, I can share my opinion. I'm not mythic, or legendary. But I have just as much say as anyone here... not that we have any rights.[/quote] I had to check if you were from Sapphire, you are. Harlow's points are negative to the community and contradictory. I also know you guys probably have a thread in Sapphire right now to laugh at people's riled up responses and get people to support the OP. [/quote] Firstly, I joined Sapphire yesterday. Secondly, I'm also a member of TFS, Health and Fitness, The Anime Community, and other private groups. I'm sorry, I don't see your point. [Edited on 01.02.2013 7:11 PM PST]
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        • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] spartain ken 15 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] dmg04 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Harlow I don't think most of you people in the Septagon realize how much of a joke that forum is around the site. Not only in the Flood but in just about every single private community I can think of.[/quote] Sorry guys, Couldn't help it. Just doesn't feel right having been called "hostile" earlier in the thread when I was doing nothing of the sort, then remembering this PM that I received in October of 2012. Elite Mouse said it correctly; Harlow does not like the way he is treated outside of his private group. This thread is nothing but a self interest sort of thing, and it's rather silly. And harlow, one thing I have noticed; Any time I've noticed you in the flood, you've been being a total jerk to people who have attacked you. If you honestly believe that there is too much hostility in the flood, you can start by not replying to the people attacking you. Just because you're defending yourself doesn't mean the hostility [i]isn't[/i] hostile. And to relate this to the OP for all members to understand the point I'm trying to make; If you honestly have an issue with the amount of negativity in this forum, you can start fixing it through your own posts. Chorizo pointed out the golden tip of 'leading by example'. Do unto others... all that jazz. [u]This OP really does feel like a troll thread now.[/u][/quote] Yeah, that is why I never take many of the threads made by harlow/Jay seriously because they go and laugh at everyone posting in them in Sapphire. I think this shows that depending on how you present yourself what kind of reaction you should expect from people. All these threads made by them is meant to rile up people. [/quote] Oh, please. I have nothing against the mods. In fact, I've even helped them on certain occasions, like reporting the appearance of nudes of a certain member within a private group that one of them is the admin of before it could spread. I've never had any problems in my experience with the mods. But I know I have bent the rules before, and I got off easy, and that's my problem. People take things like "lolno" and "you're stupid" way too light heartily. They're detrimental to the community, provide no discussion, and ultimately can discourage active discussions. I don't consider this being a jerk, I consider it a nuisance. Things like these need to be cracked down upon, as there's no reason they should be allowed to flourish like this. You're making excuses for an easily fixed, but consistent problem. Harlow brings up perfectly valid points. It may be the internet, but that doesn't mean that rules within the site cannot be enforced. I haven't been here for very long, but I'm still a member of this community, and as a member of this community, I can share my opinion. I'm not mythic, or legendary. But I have just as much say as anyone here... not that we have any rights. [Edited on 01.02.2013 7:15 PM PST]
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        • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] zoobkillerninja [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Rogue soldier11 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Achronos 1) Minimum ban for anything in the Flood is 14 days. Period.[/quote] I've had bans less than two weeks, and I started posting on the flood after 2008.[/quote]Because those rules are not in place anymore... You're missing the point of the thread. [/quote] Apparently. I don't feel like reading all fifteen pages of this thread. Just reading the first three pages I can tell it's gone to -blam!-. [Edited on 01.02.2013 7:04 PM PST]
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        • It's the internet dude, not the community. Jerks will always be on the internet. Also, The Flood has it's own weird community that won't change. I know because I'm part of it. Stop bashing on The Flood, please.
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        • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Rogue soldier11 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Achronos 1) Minimum ban for anything in the Flood is 14 days. Period.[/quote] I've had bans less than two weeks, and I started posting on the flood after 2008.[/quote]It was a temporary "state of emergency"-type policy.
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        • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Rogue soldier11 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Achronos 1) Minimum ban for anything in the Flood is 14 days. Period.[/quote] I've had bans less than two weeks, and I started posting on the flood after 2008.[/quote]Because those rules are not in place anymore... You're missing the point of the thread.
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        • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Achronos 1) Minimum ban for anything in the Flood is 14 days. Period.[/quote] I've had bans less than two weeks, and I started posting on the flood after 2008.
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        • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] TedToaster22 Alright, someone sum this thread up. I'm not reading though 16 pages.[/quote]Harlow: People are being mean to other people. This is a serious issue. People: People are only being mean to you because you're a dick. Harlow: This thread has nothing to do with me. People: You're mad that people react to how you treat them in Sapphire. Harlow: I dislike being disliked for what I say but you guys are the problem not me. Jay: If I get insulted, I have the right to be antagonistic back. Being the bigger person isn't my job. People: @Harlow: this thread is clearly about you              @Jay: lol Harlow: no u Jay: This is pathetic im leaving Dimgee: Harlow look its this PM where you were clearly all of the things you mentioned in the OP, but directed towards me how is this fair aren't you being hypocritical you probably shouldn't be hypocritical it makes you look silly. Harlow: TBD [Edited on 01.02.2013 6:51 PM PST]
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        • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Fatman 30000 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] TedToaster22 Alright, someone sum this thread up. I'm not reading though 16 pages.[/quote] Deepthroating[/quote] Alright, someone else tell me how accurate this it.
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        • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] TedToaster22 Alright, someone sum this thread up. I'm not reading though 16 pages.[/quote] Deepthroating
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