[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] IHaveTURRETS JR Since when has ignoring troll posts and flame bait been wrong? I'm pretty sure he's just advocating "Don't feed the troll."[/quote] [i]"If they can be subtle, are you saying that you can't be similarly sly?"[/i] - I'm pretty sure he's advocating ken to be a subtle dick back to them.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Coxx153 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Recon Number 54 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] spartain ken 15 I can think of many private groups that are just as guilty of this problem but it is also an issue that does not effect everyone, just instigators who never get in trouble for it or are very careful they are subtle in trolling/degrading people enough the ninjas don't catch on. [/quote] Or, perhaps we are trying to let members "catch on for themselves" and hope that they will "do the right thing". Ken, you have to admit that you are VERY quick to spot and respond to anything that you consider a "personal attack against me". Just for a moment, imagine what it would be like if you were to lower your "I've been attacked" threshold and those people who were "being so subtle the mods don't notice" don't get a kneejerk response from you, because you accept the possibility that they aren't baiting you. If they can be subtle, are you saying that you can't be similarly sly? The result is "no harm, no foul, life goes on". And we all benefit.[/quote] This is completely wrong, you are condoning the backstabbing b*tchiness that is endemic in girls' secondary schools. This thread is aimed to be deliberately controversial whilst being in the confines of the rules, hopefully flamebaiting others and promoting a group in the process; it should be locked.[/quote] Since when has ignoring troll posts and flame bait been wrong? I'm pretty sure he's just advocating "Don't feed the troll, no matter what." [Edited on 01.02.2013 8:53 AM PST]

I like how people complain that "This site is getting out of hand!" when it really hasn't changed in years. And I mean [i]years.[/i] Honestly, I'd actually say it's marginally better. Post quality is up, and people are less "forum coppy" than they were, oh, three or four years ago. [Edited on 01.02.2013 8:48 AM PST]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Recon Number 54 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] spartain ken 15 I can think of many private groups that are just as guilty of this problem but it is also an issue that does not effect everyone, just instigators who never get in trouble for it or are very careful they are subtle in trolling/degrading people enough the ninjas don't catch on. [/quote] Or, perhaps we are trying to let members "catch on for themselves" and hope that they will "do the right thing". Ken, you have to admit that you are VERY quick to spot and respond to anything that you consider a "personal attack against me". Just for a moment, imagine what it would be like if you were to lower your "I've been attacked" threshold and those people who were "being so subtle the mods don't notice" don't get a kneejerk response from you, because you accept the possibility that they aren't baiting you. If they can be subtle, are you saying that you can't be similarly sly? The result is "no harm, no foul, life goes on". And we all benefit.[/quote] This is completely wrong, you are condoning the backstabbing b*tchiness that is endemic in girls' secondary schools. This thread is aimed to be deliberately controversial whilst being in the confines of the rules, hopefully flamebaiting others and promoting a group in the process; it should be locked.

What bungie.net really needs is some sort of list whereupon people can be arbitrarily placed with no justification, banning their participation and precluding even the very discussion of their existence under pain of being added to the same list one's self. That'd make this place excellent.

Is it wrong that if I see something bad, like a swear word or someone who is obviously using an alt to avoid a ban, I don't usually report them? I'll report if it's a massive wall of spam or people posting maliciuous things, but is something small like a bypassed filter swear word worth a mod hassling over it?

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Recon Number 54 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] spartain ken 15 I can think of many private groups that are just as guilty of this problem but it is also an issue that does not effect everyone, just instigators who never get in trouble for it or are very careful they are subtle in trolling/degrading people enough the ninjas don't catch on. [/quote] Or, perhaps we are trying to let members "catch on for themselves" and hope that they will "do the right thing". Ken, you have to admit that you are VERY quick to spot and respond to anything that you consider a "personal attack against me". Just for a moment, imagine what it would be like if you were to lower your "I've been attacked" threshold and those people who were "being so subtle the mods don't notice" don't get a kneejerk response from you, because you accept the possibility that they aren't baiting you. If they can be subtle, are you saying that you can't be similarly sly? The result is "no harm, no foul, life goes on". And we all benefit.[/quote] If I got a problem with somebody I PM them first about it and if it doesn't stop I PM a mod. I try not to call anyone out on the forums because that just leads to more problems. But we really don't have much of a problem, I think most of the trouble makers have been rooted out on the mains and we don't see much of it anymore.

[url=http://i.imgur.com/ooNeX.jpg]Don't even tell me we're going to need to resort to Mr. Paperclip for bungie.next.[/url] [quote][b]Posted by[/b]: Harlow but who really uses it unless they're upset over something an OP said?[/quote]I use it. I report more than I post on a daily basis. Do I abuse it? No, I use it when I feel a post has crossed the line according to the rules. Eventually the problem will be taken care of. If I come back and nothing was done, well then it probably wasn't that big of a deal in the first place. I, along with many others, have watched this argument being passed around for years. Ever since the report feature came out, the ninjas and webteam always emphasized to use it more. It's our tool to help, and it works! This entire thread is going in circles about the same issue: - "If a tree falls in the middle of the forest with nobody around to hear it, does it make a sound?" - "If I report a post and it doesn't get addressed, was it bannable?" That's arguable. [url=http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=74494243&postRepeater1-p=2#74498246]Does a ban really solve spam?[/url] You still may feel that something is worth at least a warning, but in the larger picture, no one else may have thought it was offensive. As you said, it's a culture aspect. If we had an ignore feature this would be a different story. But it's not difficult to simply ignore a user and report their post as it exists right now.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] BestSpartan117 great post I agree, I admit I haven't been very nice in the past neither. Something must be done.[/quote] Here is what must be done. 1) Stay out of the Flood if you do not wish to see things that will offend you. 2) Report things that you feel are worthy of a moderators attention, or if it is really flagrant, pm the link to a mod. 3) Play nice

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] spartain ken 15 I can think of many private groups that are just as guilty of this problem but it is also an issue that does not effect everyone, just instigators who never get in trouble for it or are very careful they are subtle in trolling/degrading people enough the ninjas don't catch on. [/quote] Or, perhaps we are trying to let members "catch on for themselves" and hope that they will "do the right thing". Ken, you have to admit that you are VERY quick to spot and respond to anything that you consider a "personal attack against me". Just for a moment, imagine what it would be like if you were to lower your "I've been attacked" threshold and those people who were "being so subtle the mods don't notice" don't get a kneejerk response from you, because you accept the possibility that they aren't baiting you. If they can be subtle, are you saying that you can't be similarly sly? The result is "no harm, no foul, life goes on". And we all benefit.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] BestSpartan117 great post I agree, I admit I haven't been very nice in the past neither. Something must be done. [/quote] All you need to do is make sure you don't bring drama into threads or try to start something. If you got a problem with someone, go through the mods or PMs. It really is not hard as long as people make some effort to control their irrational tendencies.

I care.

great post I agree, I admit I haven't been very nice in the past neither. Something must be done. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Harlow Before I begin, let me clarify something. This thread is mostly in reference to threads on the Flood, because the Septagon is saturated with employees, moderators, and people dedicated to pleasing the previous two groups, and because the game forums have effectively died. Bungie.net has a culture problem. A culture problem that I believe is detrimental to the growth and success of the website. Hostility is not really something I see talked about much here so I figured this was worth a thread. The Flood's not a pleasant place, and it never really has been. In fact, it got so bad that the Big Man had to step in and [url=http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=26466683]do this[/url]. It kind of feels like the entire community, moderators and members both, have forgotten [url=http://www.bungie.net/Help/content_viewer.aspx?link=conduct]that being a jerk is a bad thing.[/url] Anyone who posts often on the Flood can see this. People are constantly tossing around insults, and pretty nasty ones at that. For some reason, no one seems to care anymore - maybe because we're dark, or maybe because we've just all gotten lazy or grown out of being bothered by such things. [url=http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=76620787]Just look through a few[/url] [url=http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=76616824]pages from a couple of threads made since yesterday.[/url] Let me stop here and say that I am not trying to be negative and judgmental towards the moderation team. I know that holding that position is difficult from experience elsewhere, I know how exhausting and bothersome the job is. I'm aware that moderators can't be everywhere at all times to ban people who are hurling nasty insults at someone. This is just as much a call to members. Every one of us are given a report button so we can help keep the forums clean, but who really uses it unless they're upset over something an OP said? How often do you see a post reported aside from OPs and harmful links? The sheer nastiness that can be seen just by scanning over any somewhat long thread is astounding. Maybe moderators don't ban people within threads because they don't see them. Maybe the same is true for people not reporting a post. I can't tell you how many times I've seen a moderator lock an exceptionally long thread, that everyone knows is nothing but a cluster-blam!- of angry people spewing hate at each other, and not bother to even read the second post. Like I said, I understand when you just don't see it, but why in the hell are people in these huge threads not reporting these types of posts? I know that people will be jerks on the internet, and I'm not expecting it to change. But can we please do something to get rid of this toxicity before new people start pouring in? People have strong opinions on things, and they're certainly entitled to them, but why do you have to insult someone by saying you can't tell if she's a boy or a girl? Why do you have to say nasty things to non-heteros, or females, or people who don't like the same private group as you do? Why is any of this tolerated at all? Allowing this stuff to go on is just running people away from the site, because a civilized person has no reason to spend their time being involved in a community that harbors these types of people. I know what the responses will be to this post. People will tell me how I'm being too sensitive and how it's just the way the internet is. People will tell me I'm one of the jerks. And look, I know I overstep the line sometimes when I'm joking. None of us are perfect, but I don't think asking members to attempt to be decent (and mods to enforce decency when needed) is too much to ask. You can ignore this problem all you want, but I know from talking to others that I'm not the only person who sees this. It's a real problem that needs to be fixed.[/quote]

I can think of many private groups that are just as guilty of this problem but it is also an issue that does not effect everyone, just instigators who never get in trouble for it or are very careful they are subtle in trolling/degrading people enough the ninjas don't catch on. [Edited on 01.02.2013 8:26 AM PST]

Trying to get people to just ignore the barbs thrown at them is just pissing in the wind. In this day and age people need a tool to help them do it. If Tommy Boy and the crew make it happen then they can have an ignore user feature. Once we get the ignore feature we can all live in a land of sunshine and unicorns if we choose. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Recon Number 54 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Silverback Elite [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Recon Number 54 And when I look around, see mud (and poo) being slung, I don't see anyone cloaked in white, rising above the mayhem and refusing to participate.[/quote] What about those users who refuse to post in those threads or am I missing something?[/quote] One can participate in the serious and non-mudslinging discussion and ignore the airborne sludge. Those who look and are wise enough to "stay out of it" have my respect, but albeit my respect for their non-participation. Those who have the spirit and the ability to ignore barbs, not bite at bait, and (if there is one) focus on the matter being discussed and utterly ignore the whirlwind of distractions... those people are towers in a storm.[/quote]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Verachi You talk against hostility but your OP is hostile. Interesting.....[/quote] You just figured out the joke/troll my friend.

I'm curious what is this Sapphire everyone is talking about???

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] M4L1K jr Recon should be called Recon The Grey. Recon the Grey: Community! Do not take me for some conjurer of cheap tricks. I am not trying to rob you. I'm trying to help you.[/quote] But who is Saruman?

if this is flamebaiting, intentional or no, surely this should be locked Recon?

Remember; the problem is only as big as you make it.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Silverback Elite [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Recon Number 54 And when I look around, see mud (and poo) being slung, I don't see anyone cloaked in white, rising above the mayhem and refusing to participate.[/quote] What about those users who refuse to post in those threads or am I missing something?[/quote] One can participate in the serious and non-mudslinging discussion and ignore the airborne sludge. Those who look and are wise enough to "stay out of it" have my respect, but albeit my respect for their non-participation. Those who have the spirit and the ability to ignore barbs, not bite at bait, and (if there is one) focus on the matter being discussed and utterly ignore the whirlwind of distractions... those people are towers in a storm.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Recon Number 54 I see this as self-creating (whether willfully or innocently, I can not say) self-perpetuating, self-feeding and impossible to ignore drama. [/quote]"The haft of the arrow had been feathered with one of the eagle's own plumes. We often give our enemies the means of our own destruction." - Aesop

Recon should be called Recon The Grey. Recon the Grey: Community! Do not take me for some conjurer of cheap tricks. I am not trying to rob you. I'm trying to help you. [Edited on 01.02.2013 7:25 AM PST]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Recon Number 54 And when I look around, see mud (and poo) being slung, I don't see anyone cloaked in white, rising above the mayhem and refusing to participate.[/quote] What about those users who refuse to post in those threads or am I missing something?

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Harlow [/quote] [b][i]Quit being a hypocrite.[/i][/b] [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Recon Number 54 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Harlow [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Spinner of Meats Are you jealous that your girlfriend isn't the hottest member of the Flood? It's okay, she looks alright when she acts like a complete ***** [link removed] :D[/quote] You wouldn't believe what she's like in bed.[/quote] *finishes dinner and decides to take a look at the Flood* *browses through a couple of topics to see if everything is going well* Wait, didn't you JUST complain and ask "why hasn't this been shut down yet, what is wrong with the mods?" What the hell is wrong with you? Are you that willing to proclaim anarchy and then before your complaint is finished, you are joining in? Pffffft. I'd delete this, except my rant would then be lost. And I happen to like hearing my own voice and seeing my own words. It soothes and keeps my ego overinflated.[/quote][url=http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=76632934&viewreplies=true&postRepeater1-p=4#end]Source[/url]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Kickimanjaro [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Pulse Cloud Y'all should read Saramago's "Blindness". [/quote]While that presents an interesting scenario, it provides no solution--spoiler alert: the blindness leaves inexplicably. Should we revolt against guards who have abandoned us? No, because they have not. Should we break off into small groups to survive? Some might say that we already have with Private Groups. Point being, Saramago's [i]Blindness[/i] painted a bleak picture of containment and deprivation, a picture that could be compared to what some see happening with the Flood and the administration and moderation. Rather than taking such a disparaging look at our situation, let us rather attempt to find a solution. I propose that we as a community encourage good behavior by using the report button when necessary. It is then up to the moderation staff to take these reports into consideration and pass judgement. We have the power, let's exercise it.[/quote] Hah, you should read "Seeing".