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#Septagon

1/2/2013 5:10:47 AM
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A huge problem with this community

Before I begin, let me clarify something. This thread is mostly in reference to threads on the Flood, because the Septagon is saturated with employees, moderators, and people dedicated to pleasing the previous two groups, and because the game forums have effectively died. Bungie.net has a culture problem. A culture problem that I believe is detrimental to the growth and success of the website. Hostility is not really something I see talked about much here so I figured this was worth a thread. The Flood's not a pleasant place, and it never really has been. In fact, it got so bad that the Big Man had to step in and [url=http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=26466683]do this[/url]. It kind of feels like the entire community, moderators and members both, have forgotten [url=http://www.bungie.net/Help/content_viewer.aspx?link=conduct]that being a jerk is a bad thing.[/url] Anyone who posts often on the Flood can see this. People are constantly tossing around insults, and pretty nasty ones at that. For some reason, no one seems to care anymore - maybe because we're dark, or maybe because we've just all gotten lazy or grown out of being bothered by such things. [url=http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=76620787]Just look through a few[/url] [url=http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=76616824]pages from a couple of threads made since yesterday.[/url] Let me stop here and say that I am not trying to be negative and judgmental towards the moderation team. I know that holding that position is difficult from experience elsewhere, I know how exhausting and bothersome the job is. I'm aware that moderators can't be everywhere at all times to ban people who are hurling nasty insults at someone. This is just as much a call to members. Every one of us are given a report button so we can help keep the forums clean, but who really uses it unless they're upset over something an OP said? How often do you see a post reported aside from OPs and harmful links? The sheer nastiness that can be seen just by scanning over any somewhat long thread is astounding. Maybe moderators don't ban people within threads because they don't see them. Maybe the same is true for people not reporting a post. I can't tell you how many times I've seen a moderator lock an exceptionally long thread, that everyone knows is nothing but a cluster-blam!- of angry people spewing hate at each other, and not bother to even read the second post. Like I said, I understand when you just don't see it, but why in the hell are people in these huge threads not reporting these types of posts? I know that people will be jerks on the internet, and I'm not expecting it to change. But can we please do something to get rid of this toxicity before new people start pouring in? People have strong opinions on things, and they're certainly entitled to them, but why do you have to insult someone by saying you can't tell if she's a boy or a girl? Why do you have to say nasty things to non-heteros, or females, or people who don't like the same private group as you do? Why is any of this tolerated at all? Allowing this stuff to go on is just running people away from the site, because a civilized person has no reason to spend their time being involved in a community that harbors these types of people. I know what the responses will be to this post. People will tell me how I'm being too sensitive and how it's just the way the internet is. People will tell me I'm one of the jerks. And look, I know I overstep the line sometimes when I'm joking. None of us are perfect, but I don't think asking members to attempt to be decent (and mods to enforce decency when needed) is too much to ask. You can ignore this problem all you want, but I know from talking to others that I'm not the only person who sees this. It's a real problem that needs to be fixed.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] DarkBen64 Because it sounds an awful lot like Harlow can't get his way and is desperately trying to seize the moral high ground. There is nothing wrong with the Bnet community as it is. My only suggestion would be appoint a mod with a European timezone.[/quote]Why is it when his name appears people go about insulting Saphire? Just a quick question, because I've always wondered.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] BlackHeaven I find it absolutely fascinating how one member can elicit so many ridiculous theories of "hidden agendas", being "mad because he's not getting his way" and every other unwarranted assumption. [/quote]The thing is, if that were the case, wouldn't he just...not post here? Wouldn't he, as people here have so happily suggested, just go back to his group where he makes the rules, can kick whoever he likes, and doesn't have to deal with this kind of crap? What motive could he honestly have other than a desire to improve the community with his input - which is the stated motive of everyone else who posts threads on the Septagon? Harlow has a utopia into which he can retreat any time he likes, guys. He doesn't [i]have[/i] to get things his way out here. He made the thread because he wanted to have an honest dialogue. Shame most of you can't grow up and engage on his level, really. Sad times.

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  • I find it absolutely fascinating how one member can elicit so many ridiculous theories of "hidden agendas", being "mad because he's not getting his way" and every other unwarranted assumption.

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  • It's the Internet, what exactly are you comparing about? Internet anonymity will rule over anything you have to say. Get over it and stick to your private group

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] CrazyT [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] DarkBen64 And an awful lot like Harlow is mad he can't see his perfect community outside of Sapphire.[/quote]I don't understand why this statement is necessary.[/quote]Because it sounds an awful lot like Harlow can't get his way and is desperately trying to seize the moral high ground. There is nothing wrong with the Bnet community as it is. My only suggestion would be appoint a mod with a European timezone.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Harlow nothing but a cluster-blam!- of angry people spewing hate at each other[/quote]I thought hate was the sincerest form of flattery?

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Delta 15t Yep. If people are not reporting, they either don't have a problem with what's going on in the forums or they don't care. Seeing as people do report obvious rule breaking, I'd go with people are content give or take on both ends with the flow and content of the forums. [/quote]Except that oftentimes, they don't - either because they can't be bothered, or because the rule-breaking posts target someone they dislike. Today, there were a bunch of posts poking fun at Wyldfyre over her gender. Now, is Wyld my favourite member? Nope. But is the constant and blatant transphobia that comes up [i]every single time she posts in a thread[/i] fair or warranted? Of course not. But who (other than me and Harlow and maybe a couple of particularly LGBT-aware members) is going to report that type of thing? Group opinion is: LOL TRAPS ARE FUNNY HAHAHAHAHAHA WYLD THINKS HE'S A GIRL LOLOLOL (which is obviously a disgusting attitude, do I even need to clarify that?). So it doesn't get reported, despite the fact that those posts break the rules. And if enough people don't report them, they don't show up in the report queue - a single report won't do anything. Hell, in this very thread, there are people claiming that Harlow wrote this because he's mad that people think I'm ugly. How is that relevant to the topic of discussion? How is that anything other than derailment and flaming? Answer me that, and maybe I'll concede that there isn't a problem.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] DarkBen64 And an awful lot like Harlow is mad he can't see his perfect community outside of Sapphire.[/quote]I don't understand why this statement is necessary.

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  • This whole thread seems to reek of someone being mad that there are jerks on the internet. There are jerks EVERYWHERE, and giving them anonymity doesn't help. As long as Bnet doesn't force links to a social media account you're always going to get it. And an awful lot like Harlow is mad he can't see his perfect community outside of Sapphire.

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  • Yep. If people are not reporting, they either don't have a problem with what's going on in the forums or they don't care. Seeing as people do report obvious rule breaking, I'd go with people are content give or take on both ends with the flow and content of the forums. ~Delta [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Duardo I hate jerks as much as the next guy and deal with them when I see them. I imagine the other ninjas do this as well. We rely on the report button when we're not here. The report button is only ever used when a very obvious rule is being broken (adult links, all caps, religion/politics) otherwise we hardly see anything in there.[/quote]

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  • I don't think the obvious alt population helps either.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Rabid Grunt 3 Surely if someone is actually offended, they would inform a mod. As the mods say, this rarely happens, and thus it can be assumed that no one, except apparently you, is offended. This may be a broad statement, but most people do not log into the flood just for dishing out compliments, or indulging in civil debates. Its a way to blow of steam, and maybe, on the odd occasion, get into a heated argument. But the key is you are talking to accounts, not people. It is not real life. No one is being personally insulted, and if they are, it is because they exposed their personal life in the first place, and thus set them selves up. Obviously "harmony" is what you desire, but please keep that to Sapphire. The last thing this forum needs is opinion suppression and mods who have to scold us for letting off steam. [/quote] Hostility is a poor way to let off steam.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] the arbytor btw The Flood is like Omega from Mass Effect It's a haven for criminals,terrorists, and everything alike destroy it and they would all move to the Citadel (here) as show in ME3 when Cerberus took over Omega. [/quote]That's actually pretty accurate, minus the ability to kill whoever we don't like.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Duardo I hate jerks as much as the next guy and deal with them when I see them. I imagine the other ninjas do this as well. We rely on the report button when we're not here. The report button is only ever used when a very obvious rule is being broken (adult links, all caps, religion/politics) otherwise we hardly see anything in there.[/quote] I agree. I don't like jerks and I don't like being one. But I think the reason we as a community don't report so much is because we're kinda scared of getting ourselfs banned. Atleast I am. I only ever report if something happens like what you said. Adult links, all caps, religion. But I want to be sure when to report correctly as I don't want myself to get banned because I like talking with other people on the Flood.

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  • I cannot take this thread seriously. I am really sorry... but.. haha... wat?

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  • btw The Flood is like Omega from Mass Effect It's a haven for criminals,terrorists, and everything alike destroy it and they would all move to the Citadel (here) as show in ME3 when Cerberus took over Omega.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Make117 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Elite Mouse This is just about you not liking the way you are treated outside of your castle, and nothing more.[/quote]So in other words you deny the problem? You don't think people are being -blam!-s to each others here?[/quote] Who cares? If you do, do something about it and report them. Be pro active. However, seeing as barely anyone reports, it appears you are one of a limited number who actually gets effected.

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  • Surely if someone is actually offended, they would inform a mod. As the mods say, this rarely happens, and thus it can be assumed that no one, except apparently you, is offended. This may be a broad statement, but most people do not log into the flood just for dishing out compliments, or indulging in civil debates. Its a way to blow of steam, and maybe, on the odd occasion, get into a heated argument. But the key is you are talking to accounts, not people. It is not real life. No one is being personally insulted, and if they are, it is because they exposed their personal life in the first place, and thus set them selves up. Obviously "harmony" is what you desire, but please keep that to Sapphire. The last thing this forum needs is opinion suppression and mods who have to scold us for letting off steam.

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  • Guys this is getting off-topic. To get back on track: I feel that a huge problem with this community is the inability to detect joking attitudes, sarcasm, parody, satire, and the like and the accompanying misguided misconceptions about the supposed undercurrent of rudeness, elitism, sycophancy, and all those other nasty words people throw around to incite disagreement only to cite that disagreement as proof of their initial thesis. This is a problem even bigger than the OP, and yet is indirectly brought up almost constantly therein.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Batchnator95 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Colonel Grade 5 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Batchnator95 Huh, nah that's all I really wanted to know, well beside what the group is about. Other then that I'm happy with sticking to the Flood. No matter what the place turns out like.[/quote] It's a giant circle-jerk of bad halo players.[/quote]And you are probably an alt who is a part of that circle, good day sir.[/quote] It's a very active group where you have to post a lot to get known.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Batchnator95 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Colonel Grade 5 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Batchnator95 Huh, nah that's all I really wanted to know, well beside what the group is about. Other then that I'm happy with sticking to the Flood. No matter what the place turns out like.[/quote] It's a giant circle-jerk of bad halo players.[/quote]And you are probably an alt who is a part of that circle, good day sir.[/quote] Not a chance.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Colonel Grade 5 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Batchnator95 Huh, nah that's all I really wanted to know, well beside what the group is about. Other then that I'm happy with sticking to the Flood. No matter what the place turns out like.[/quote] It's a giant circle-jerk of bad halo players.[/quote]And you are probably an alt who is a part of that circle, good day sir.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Batchnator95 Huh, nah that's all I really wanted to know, well beside what the group is about. Other then that I'm happy with sticking to the Flood. No matter what the place turns out like.[/quote] It's a giant circle-jerk of bad halo players.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Sev808 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Batchnator95 I'm a little slow on the news of B.net, this Sapphire person, did he or she become a mod or something, I'm intrigued.[/quote]Who?[/quote]For some reason I thought Sapphire was a person, not a group.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] AuSam [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Batchnator95 I'm a little slow on the news of B.net, this Sapphire person, did he or she become a mod or something, I'm intrigued.[/quote] Sapphire is a private group run by Harlow. It's the largest and most active group on the site. PM me if you have any further questions.[/quote]Huh, nah that's all I really wanted to know, well beside what the group is about. Other then that I'm happy with sticking to the Flood. No matter what the place turns out like.

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  • Never mind. [Edited on 01.02.2013 2:58 AM PST]

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