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12/5/2012 3:49:38 AM
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Do you think Halo 4 was too much "fantasy"?(SPOILERS)
I feel like Halo 4 felt so different compared to all the previous Halo games was because it wasn't scientifically grounded AT ALL.
Last time Chief flung himself toward a planet, his armor recieved VISUAL damage. Now he just shrugged it off like a punch.
The manipulation of the hardlight technology was a bit TOO far fetched IMO. Light can NEVER be solid, and then later to be able to be manipulated into manacles was just dumb, its only explination was "space magic". And don't get me started on how Cortana was keeping the shield up around MC when the WHOLE SHIP BECAME DEBREE!
Cortana at the point had no power to keep the shield up, NONE. Chief should've thrown the nuke and lept into atmospher like in Halo 3. The impact of the nuke would've detonated it, cause he could punch it and activate it. And it would've made sense.
Everything seen before in Halo made [i]some[/i] scientific sense before, now a lot of it is explained by "space magic". I could not be immersed into this story like I did before, and I'm upset that 343i could reach the bar that Bungie met.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] GrandmasterNinja [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Jump Into Hell [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Simjon4two I agree with you OP. And the scene with the librarian like giving you supeeerpowerzzz to defeat da Didact ist just :facepalm:. Or the animation when you use an AA.[/quote] She was accelerating his evolution. Not that far fetched, for a science fiction game.[/quote] I also love the armor lock animation he does as he attains his higher evolutionary status lol. But if he indeed "evolved" so much to the point that the composer didn't even recognize him to be a "human target". Shouldn't he not even "look" human once his helmet was taken off? His body, mind, EVERYTHING should've been much better than every human around him. His bio readings wouldn't match that of [i]anything[/i] previously recorded [i]ever[/i][/quote] If the Librarian gave John Didact's geas, then the Composer wouldn't attack him because he'd read as the Didact. As for the Hard Light shield, she teleported John off the ship, and evidently contained the nuke's explosion, because it wasn't until she died that the ship fell apart.
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It is not that far fetched yet. I could probably explain each of your discrepancies. Science is far-fetched. Especially science fiction. Look at some other stuff that could seem far fetched from the Halo Universe and the real universe. -The Big Bang -Black Holes -Slipspace -Ring Worlds that can cause Galactic Genocide And why pick now to complain about hard-light? Hard-light has been in every Halo game except ODST
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ajw34307 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ninjakenzen [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ntontom One random idea I had to explain the issue with the hardlight bridge manipulation away is that the entire game as soon as Chief meets the Librarian is a dream. I don't have any legitimate evidence, but it is an interesting thought. Wouldn't it have been great if you hit the button on the nuke and woke up. [/quote] Haha. The whole 'it was all a dream' stuff is so funny. People have to resort to that when they just consider the story to be so bad or far fetched. [One example: Indoctrination theory in Mass Effect][/quote] Except the IT had legitimate lore-based evidence to support it across 3 games and multiple novels, giving Bioware a legitimate 'get out of jail free' card to use - only they squandered the opportunity.[/quote] Yeah, it was a shame as well. I liked the IT. But I think Bioware chose not to follow through with the 'get out of jail free' card as a statement that they will not be bulled by angered fans no matter how bad their ending was.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Xd00999 Only other explanation I can see is that MJOLNIR is one-size-fits-all.[/quote]Pretty sure Fall of Reach stated each suit was tailored to the dimensions of each Spartan.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ninjakenzen [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ntontom One random idea I had to explain the issue with the hardlight bridge manipulation away is that the entire game as soon as Chief meets the Librarian is a dream. I don't have any legitimate evidence, but it is an interesting thought. Wouldn't it have been great if you hit the button on the nuke and woke up. [/quote] Haha. The whole 'it was all a dream' stuff is so funny. People have to resort to that when they just consider the story to be so bad or far fetched. [One example: Indoctrination theory in Mass Effect][/quote] Except the IT had legitimate lore-based evidence to support it across 3 games and multiple novels, giving Bioware a legitimate 'get out of jail free' card to use - only they squandered the opportunity.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ntontom One random idea I had to explain the issue with the hardlight bridge manipulation away is that the entire game as soon as Chief meets the Librarian is a dream. I don't have any legitimate evidence, but it is an interesting thought. Wouldn't it have been great if you hit the button on the nuke and woke up. [/quote] Haha. The whole 'it was all a dream' stuff is so funny. People have to resort to that when they just consider the story to be so bad or far fetched. [One example: Indoctrination theory in Mass Effect]
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For my mind, it was always going to have a much more fantasy based feel to it. We are dealing with the Forerunners here. They were and considering the Didact, still are the most technologically advanced race in the galaxy. Things would seem far-fetched to us because it's technology we haven't even dreamed of dealing with yet. It's kind of like tribes in South America seeing planes.
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One random idea I had to explain the issue with the hardlight bridge manipulation away is that the entire game as soon as Chief meets the Librarian is a dream. I don't have any legitimate evidence, but it is an interesting thought. Wouldn't it have been great if you hit the button on the nuke and woke up.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] the real Janaka [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] GrandmasterNinja [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Wolverfrog Halo has always been science-fantasy. [/quote] But it was never to this extent. They might as well have people using the force - oh wait...[/quote]I've heard this a lot lately, exactly what in Halo was indicative of being [i]science fantasy[/i] before? [/quote] The tone. The acting. The music. All of that. The fact of the matter is, it never did anything to prove it was overtly fantasy, but it never tried too hard to ground itself either. I mean, honestly. Let's go back to 2001. You had just got done fighting off waves of green space zombies (the fact that that's one of the least farfetched part of Halo's story should be evidence enough) for about a few hours since this is the first time playing this mission and you got turned around a few times. Don't act like you didn't get lost in that damn level either. Out of nowhere, a floating robot eye appears out of thin air, stops you in your tracks, and RECOGNIZES YOU. Like "OH MERCIFUL CHOSEN ONE! YOU HAVE RETURNED AS FORETOLD IN THE PROPHECY" style! COME ON. Not to mention the fact that your AI companion chose to be his AI companion based on SUPERSTITION. SUPERSTITION THAT ACTUALLY PAYS OFF. How the hell is one gonna argue realism when Chief's main asset is luck? Like, actual quantifiable luck as if it was quantifiable? He survived Augmentation, he survives every major vehicular disaster he's involved in (and is usually the only survivor), he always takes blind leaps of faith and ALWAYS sticks the landing (Halo 2 e3 trailer)... FFS the test that got him the gig as a spartan was a COIN TOSS. The only reason why there's pseudo science in Halo is because it sounds and looks cool. It also allows some of the lesser creative minds and left brained people in the fanbase to cool off and have something to chew on. Plus there's the whole "dude, if this could actually happen that would be awesome" element. [Edited on 12.08.2012 11:30 PM PST]
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] TheHawk62 Speaking of space magic, I want to know why the Didact has 'force power'[/quote] He doesn't... He's just using a scaled-down version of the same containment/restraint/anti-grav (whatever you want to call it) field we've seen since Halo CE. Ghosts, Gravity Hammers, [url=http://www.halopedia.org/images/0/08/Sanctum_of_the_hierarchs_343gs.png]Guilty Spark's containment chamber[/url], the Fist of Rukt, Sentinels, Choppers, Forerunner structures, Halos, Shield Worlds, Enforcers, Constructers, gondolas, [url=http://www.halopedia.org/images/8/8e/Restrainor.png]Anders' containment field[/url], [url=http://www.halopedia.org/images/9/9f/Containment_field_-_MC.jpg]John's containment field[/url]... Why is having a scaled down version of this device so objectionable when the Forerunners have the ability to create artificial gravitational forces, giant ringworlds and hollow planets?
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] TheHawk62 Speaking of space magic, I want to know why the Didact has 'force power' [/quote] Its probably similar to what Tartarus does with the Fist of Rukt, but the Didact does it with his gloves.
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Speaking of space magic, I want to know why the Didact has 'force power'
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ninjakenzen I started getting that fantasy vibe when Chief met the Librarian. It was all, 'Did I just die and go to Heaven? eeewww whats that? Is that a flying female prophet? ' Then I evolved. I tapped the B button repeatedly to stop the evolution of my lvl 67 Chief but it did nothing. NOTHING. Well he did Armor Lock afterwards, I preceded to RAAAAGE in a false panic that they brought the AA back then I got confused again and continued playing Portal 2 with a hint of Star Wars.[/quote]lol so true!! [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] KaneXX12 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Sliding Ghost It's time for Chief to rise up and be a man. That means running into marines should send them flying, meleeing an Elite minor should instantly kill him, and jumping on a Grunt should crush it.[/quote] Sounds a little to Mario style. And elites are super-strong with shields and diamond hard armor. Don't you think that it should be kept at 2 at least, even for a Minor?[/quote]:/ I guess you have a point. But you have to remember that both Chief and Mario are known for their jumps, not just their power. Chief really lacks jumping capabilities in Halo 4. I can understand Spartan IVs jumping low but it doesn't make sense with Chief. And I disagree. Early on in Halo 4, I think they were going to be made out to be total pushovers (instead of what they are now, making a prominent appearance next to the Knights). Remember that cutscene I've been mentioning about the red Knight tossing the Elite like a ragdoll? That's ample evidence for me.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Sliding Ghost It's time for Chief to rise up and be a man. That means running into marines should send them flying, meleeing an Elite minor should instantly kill him, and jumping on a Grunt should crush it.[/quote] Sounds a little to Mario style. And elites are super-strong with shields and diamond hard armor. Don't you think that it should be kept at 2 at least, even for a Minor?
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Buddy we are talking about a fictional game 500+ years in the future with the technology of beings so advanced, they wiped out all life in the galaxy and probably could have done more. It may be a bit far fetched but its not magic. It is very scientifically grounded actually. Besides, your complaining that solid light is too unscientific, what about all the other science fictional stuff. Slipspace? Artificial ring-worlds? You've got to be kidding me. If you want to talk about far-fetched, read about how slipspace works. If you really want, I could find some explanation other than magic to explain everything that you complained about. Besides. Of course it is probably not scientifically possible. Thats why its called Science [u]Fiction[/u].
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] GrandmasterNinja [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ninjakenzen I started getting that fantasy vibe when Chief met the Librarian. It was all, 'Did I just die and go to Heaven? eeewww whats that? Is that a flying female prophet? ' Then I evolved. I tapped the B button repeatedly to stop the evolution of my lvl 67 Chief but it did nothing. NOTHING. Well he did Armor Lock afterwards, I preceded to RAAAAGE in a false panic that they brought the AA back then I got confused again and continued playing Portal 2 with a hint of Star Wars.[/quote] When he armor locked. I was REALLLY hoping they brought it back at that point.[/quote] Meh to be honest, had they kept it, I would have loled so hard if he just Armor locked when the nuke was activated and survived. I wouldn't even question the mechanics behind it because quite frankly I just don't really care for the story anymore. Just don't mess with the gameplay at this point, well that's another issue. [Edited on 12.06.2012 8:29 AM PST]
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ninjakenzen I started getting that fantasy vibe when Chief met the Librarian. It was all, 'Did I just die and go to Heaven? eeewww whats that? Is that a flying female prophet? ' Then I evolved. I tapped the B button repeatedly to stop the evolution of my lvl 67 Chief but it did nothing. NOTHING. Well he did Armor Lock afterwards, I preceded to RAAAAGE in a false panic that they brought the AA back then I got confused again and continued playing Portal 2 with a hint of Star Wars.[/quote] When he armor locked. I was REALLLY hoping they brought it back at that point.
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I started getting that fantasy vibe when Chief met the Librarian. It was all, 'Did I just die and go to Heaven? eeewww whats that? Is that a flying female prophet? ' Then I evolved. I tapped the B button repeatedly to stop the evolution of my lvl 67 Chief but it did nothing. NOTHING. Well he did Armor Lock afterwards, I preceded to RAAAAGE in a false panic that they brought the AA back then I got confused again and continued playing Portal 2 with a hint of Star Wars. [Edited on 12.06.2012 7:31 AM PST]
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From what i understood, Cortana teleported Chief away from the nuke explosion and housed him in a hardlight shield as he drifted in space.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ajw34307 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Atomic Tea He was smaller than Palmer, originally? Really? I need to go through the campaign again...[/quote] Sorry, I don't think I managed to articulate that point very well. When John first meets Palmer in [i]Infinity[/i], he is only slightly taller than her. (Pictures for reference: [url=http://i3.minus.com/iSz6xrasxaHr5.jpg]1[/url] & [url=http://i3.minus.com/ihyDHnNZ1qq7L.jpg]2[/url]) After the Librarian accelerates John's evolutionary journey, we see by the end of the game that he has [i]noticably[/i] grown. (Pictures for reference: [url=http://i3.minus.com/ibzlkP1kGR2Z5r.jpg]3[/url] & [url=http://i4.minus.com/ipFL9OMJcx2wB.jpg]4[/url]) Palmer is, [url=http://www.halowaypoint.com/en-US/halo4guide]according to 343i's interactive guide[/url], 6'9 feet tall. John is, with armour, 7'2. By the end of Halo 4, he looks like he's grown to about 8 feet.[/quote]Hopefully this will mean the Elites will be pipsqueaks now. The Elite punishment in Halo 4 is not nearly as bad as in Halo 2 (1 hit kill melee, long firing durations) or Reach (dual wielders!) but it's still hell annoying that I lose a chunk of my shield on EASY difficulty from a single melee and get tossed around like a piece of paper by the concussion rifle. It's time for Chief to rise up and be a man. That means running into marines should send them flying, meleeing an Elite minor should instantly kill him, and jumping on a Grunt should crush it. [Edited on 12.05.2012 10:07 PM PST]
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I don't agree with your opinion of preHalo4 being scientific. I always felt it to be Fantasy, but I felt the characters were more interesting and dimensional.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ajw34307 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Wolverfrog What, [b]and his armour grew with him?[/b] :S He didn't grow another foot.[/quote] Yes, this is the issue with it really. :P There's no denying that he's [i]massive[/i] in the Epilogue though, he should only be 3 inches taller than Palmer but instead he's over a foot taller. The scientists around him are barely above his waistline.[/quote]I think that was more likely a mistake on 343i's part than him having actually grown. They probably would have drawn more attention to it if that were the case.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] grey101 Chiefs armor was messed up from his time on the dreadnought in which he was attack by six hunter pairs and a brute captain. Which were the causes from all the visual armor damage that we saw not his fall. NOBLE 6 didn't receive any visual damage from free fall and he didn't have anything shielding him like chief did (the forerunner door). [/quote] However, unlike John, 6 was wearing a re-entry pack. He didn't just free fall all the way down to Reach. ^Maybe it is symbolism to show how Chief has become a larger-than-life legend? Only other explanation I can see is that MJOLNIR is one-size-fits-all.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Wolverfrog What, [b]and his armour grew with him?[/b] :S He didn't grow another foot.[/quote] Yes, this is the issue with it really. :P There's no denying that he's [i]massive[/i] in the Epilogue though, he should only be 3 inches taller than Palmer but instead he's over a foot taller. The scientists around him are barely above his waistline.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ajw34307 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] GrandmasterNinja [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Jump Into Hell [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Simjon4two I agree with you OP. And the scene with the librarian like giving you supeeerpowerzzz to defeat da Didact ist just :facepalm:. Or the animation when you use an AA.[/quote] She was accelerating his evolution. Not that far fetched, for a science fiction game.[/quote] I also love the armor lock animation he does as he attains his higher evolutionary status lol. But if he indeed "evolved" so much to the point that the composer didn't even recognize him to be a "human target". Shouldn't he not even "look" human once his helmet was taken off? His body, mind, EVERYTHING should've been much better than every human around him. His bio readings wouldn't match that of [i]anything[/i] previously recorded [i]ever[/i][/quote] Cortana says when you get in the lift that your bio readings are "off the charts"... We notice in the Epilogue that he has grown at least another foot (compare how he was only slightly smaller than Palmer in the 4th mission but is now about 2 heads taller now), and we can hardly judge his actual physical appearance since we only see his eyes.[/quote] What, and his armour grew with him? :S He didn't grow another foot.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] GrandmasterNinja I feel like Halo 4 felt so different compared to all the previous Halo games was because it wasn't scientifically grounded AT ALL. Last time Chief flung himself toward a planet, his armor recieved VISUAL damage. Now he just shrugged it off like a punch. The manipulation of the hardlight technology was a bit TOO far fetched IMO. Light can NEVER be solid, and then later to be able to be manipulated into manacles was just dumb, its only explination was "space magic". And don't get me started on how Cortana was keeping the shield up around MC when the WHOLE SHIP BECAME DEBREE! Cortana at the point had no power to keep the shield up, NONE. Chief should've thrown the nuke and lept into atmospher like in Halo 3. The impact of the nuke would've detonated it, cause he could punch it and activate it. And it would've made sense. Everything seen before in Halo made [i]some[/i] scientific sense before, now a lot of it is explained by "space magic". I could not be immersed into this story like I did before, and I'm upset that 343i could reach the bar that Bungie met. [/quote] You honestly cannot say "at all" for the two situations you provided simply because [b]you[/b] didn't understand Them. Chiefs armor was messed up from his time on the dreadnought in which he was attack by six hunter pairs and a brute captain. Which were the causes from all the visual armor damage that we saw not his fall. NOBLE 6 didn't receive any visual damage from free fall and he didn't have anything shielding him like chief did (the forerunner door). Excuse me, did i miss the part where humanity was advanced enough to determine what can and cannot happen? Just because we don't have the current science to do it does not mean it can not or has not be done before. nearly everything we have to day was said to be "impossible" in the past. Bungie was not perfect with halo and i wish people would stop riding them as if they were. The messed up by saying the covenant used plasma and then said it was some "arcane plasma" which pretty much translation into what you call "space magic". They have repeatedly messed up with the colony numbers and populations, humanity's poor weaponry,the PoA's quick arrival at 04,changing the covenant's fighting style specifically for humanity, not to mention the poor story plots for halo 3 and reach. Obviously you have been "immersed in this story" since you are just now complaining about trivial things yet i have not seen you in here once before about what i have said above or anything else. [Edited on 12.05.2012 1:15 PM PST]
