[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Te7suro[/quote]I'm glad that my typing didn't go completely wasted. I agree with it being more or less filler; hardly anything it [i]solved[/i] was relevant, and what it offered was lackluster (when I saw the Librerian and Ur Didact, I sighed, I come up with better designs in my sleep). It might have been about John and Cortana, but it hardly did anything with it. Meh, I've been bored by it since I saw it, haven't experienced something so anticlimactic and unattractive in a long time. But I'm moving on.

Soo no conflict at all? Fuuuun game...

So I have never even posted one thing in the bungie forums, but I cannot help to post something this time about a game which i thoroughly enjoyed from the beginning to the end. Let me first state something about myself. I played Halo CE the original and was instantly in love with Halo. From there, I played every Xbox game, 2,3, ODST, Reach and Halo Wars. Since I was 8 or 9 years old when I played CE, I only started playing online with part 3. Because of this, I am always more interested in the single player than in multiplayer. (although I played 3 quite a lot, damn good memories) From this point of view, I want to tell you why I think so many of you wear too much 'old skool' glasses. I will not jump into the discussion about the lore, because I think I cannot contribute that much like people did before me. I know a lot about the lore, but obviously not as much as you guys do. (I never read any books physically) So while the lore can be viewed as flawed (and in my opinion you guys make points that do itch me), I ask myself, why doesn't anyone notice the other side, the new fresh wind 343 brought to part 4? A story about two characters which survived everyone and everything, two installations, numerous deaths of remarkable other characters (Johnson, Keyes, Miranda), a parasite that almost drove one of them insane in seclusion and which is now put to the ultimate test: will they stay together or will they be lost forever? Then there is the story of the demi-god versus god. We always saw Master Chief as the ultimate badass, yet our Forerunner antagonist knows how to tame the shiny metal god pretty roughly. And then there is the story of the captain who sees Cortana and Master Chief as delusional when it comes to their ideas about the Forerunner threat. In great contrast to the whole crew, which view MC as their saviour, their Jesus. Screw protocol, MC saved humanity for Cole's sake! The point I am trying to make is that 343 has put a lot of effort in emotional moments and stories in this game. Another great example is of the contrast between the Chief and the scientist, the former one doing his duty when he needs to blow something up, which the latter one has spend many years of research on. Hey, everything for humanity right? Even between MC and Cortana is a contrast which I found nothing more than brilliant: the always cool 'It will be fine' MC with the AI which is feeling more and more emotions and life, while at the end of her lifespan. Can't you feel the tragedy? Gameplay-wise I also enjoyed the new way 343 headed. While I must admit that the weapons are nothing more than Forerunner-adjusted types of the shotgun, sniper and automatic weaponry for me, the enemies require a totally new approach. I was starting to get bored by the routine I knew for so long approaching the Covenant. Plasma bolt, headshot.. Melee, headshot.. Shoot the small hole in the Jackals shield, headshot.. The Forerunner enemies carry a totally different approach and I cannot praise 343 enough for it. It may not be the new wheel, but it certainly is something new for me. Now I know a lot of people will say Bungie put a lot of work in emotion as well, and they certainly did. My favourite video game moment ever is by far the moment Miranda pulls the gun on Johnson and just cannot do it. Which results in her tragic demise and Johnson being speechless for one of the very first times. Bungie does know how to show emotions, but what I missed in their works after a while was a total immersion, shock and awe moments which drop your jaw to the ground and leave you speechless for a long time. Needless to say, I did experience this with Halo 4. Halo CE made me feel suspense when I was a young 8-year-old boy and Halo 4 made me feel suspense while I am 18. You can just feel the love of 343 Industries. I will not say anything about the multiplayer, since I did not check it out yet. Only one thing. A lot of people yell we have a 'Call of duty' Halo with this part. But I can remember Reach having a lot of CoD influences as well in the multiplayer. They were simply adjusted to the universe and unique multiplayer of Halo. Yet, wasn't that a Bungie game? I must admit, I did not really enjoy the multiplayer of Reach, since I enjoyed the multiplayer of part 3 too much. The step was just too big for me. In a sense, I am still stuck in a 'Halo 3 multiplayer paradigm'. But it did involve a lot of borrowing from CoD already. Maybe it is because I got tired of the old trick being done over and over again, that I am overly enthousiastic with Part 4, but I truly believe a lot of you should consider the game once more, and please, with a little less conservative paradigm of the 'Bungie days'. It is truly a work of art. My only big point of critique is a bit difficult. It involves the same thing I praise about this game. While I really enjoyed the sense of emotion in the game, I think they should have pushed further. The contrast between a captain and the Chief, the Forerunner antagonist and MC, the scientist and MC, all these moments were great, but only brief. In my opinion, the story of terminals of Halo 3 deserved more elaboration as well. 343 Industries might have overdone it a little bit with all their different ideas, resulting in great moments, yet brief. And then there is the following comment which still gives me a lot of thought and upon which I cannot help but agree: [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Te7suro While playing Halo 4, I couldn't help but shake the feeling that the story that really wants to be told is that of the relationship between MC and Cortana, with all the rest being more or less filler.[/quote] You sir, have made a very bold statement. One that feels so true to me that it has shaken my appreciation of the game a bit. A little bit, but still a bit. I think you are spot on with this assessment and it can be viewed next to my critique point of 'overdoing' it. [Edited on 11.07.2012 3:09 PM PST]

So it's been quite a while since I delved deep into Halo's mythos, the last time I really got into it was probably in ODST. I used to be quite fanatical about digesting every little piece of info, every cryptic line. I can still remember arguing over the meaning of Guilty Spark's line on the Maw in Halo CE, "all our lost history". So with the release of Halo 4 I have taken it upon myself to refresh my memory and learn what I've missed. I haven't read any of the recent novels, but have read some synopsis in order to get the gist of what I've missed. I have to say after reading the post you linked I agree with you Janaka. Maybe not to the extent that I want to abandon the series, but it certainly is disheartening to see how the lore of the series has unraveled. I particularly agree with what you said here. [quote]For me it is no more than endorsed fanfic.[/quote] The story from what I have been gathering seems like a convoluted mess, ultimately culminating in an excuse for the chief and cortana to save humanity again. While playing Halo 4, I couldn't help but shake the feeling that the story that really wants to be told is that of the relationship between MC and Cortana, with all the rest being more or less filler. [Edited on 11.07.2012 2:17 AM PST]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] OrderedComa [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Spartan1995324[/quote] Being wary isn't the same as wanting to continue fighting and exterminating them though. There's nothing funky about being wary even if they like them, I wouldn't find that weird at all, not really anyway.[/quote]It's a preventative measure. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] OrderedComa You seem to be grossly underestimating the passage of time and how that plays out on feelings and emotions...after all the people who've directly participated in the war have died off, there isn't going to be anymore intense hatred, it's eventually going to fizzle out as anything widespread. Take the Holocaust for instance, it's always going to be a sore spot between Israel and Germany, but the two nations get on well enough with each other (well about as well as Israel gets on with any other nation...they're rather suspicious of everyone, and with fairly good reason) and Jews and Germans get on well enough with each other...time fixes everything.[/quote]Yeah it does. But not 4 years after the war. you need a decade at least... [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] OrderedComa And after a 30+ year war, humanity is tired of fighting, and the Elites are still about a million times stronger than humanity militarily, if war actually was started up again they'd stomp all over whatever humans fought them just like what happened during the Human-Covenant War...and advances with Forerunner technology are not going to be made quickly, by the time humanity would be able to put up any kind of decent fight against the Elites or any other faction using all Covenant technology, the emotions of the war would have long faded from mainstream opinion and view.[/quote]Elites are stronger than humans right now... Which is EXACTLY why the Elites want to crush the Humans, before the Humans can actually put up a fight. They want to end the threat once and for. Try to see things not as an outside observer but as an actual Elite living on Sangheilos. They don't want Humanity to come back and haunt them for their sins. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] OrderedComa No, what Parangosky is doing is being a petty -blam!-. Her actions are not helping humanity in any way are just the seeds for more war if not handled properly, which is what's happening, she is displaying every ounce of incompetence and lunacy she has. All of Parangosky's actions and manipulations are just the seeds for humanity's extermination. Both sides are tired of fighting and don't want more war....but because Parangosky is an arrogant -blam!- and thinks she knows better than anyone, she's decided to be a traitor and put her own interests before the UNSC's or humanity's.[/quote]Obviously no one wants a war, they just have different ways of trying to end. Some want to end it with the complete annihilation of their enemies. Others want to end it through peace. Parangosky is trying to buy time for Humanity to rebuild. While I don't agree with her method, I can why she did it. I don't support it, but because I don't like it doesn't mean it's totally wrong. If the Elites are fighting the Brutes AND themselves, they won't have as much of an interest/time to deal with Humans. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] OrderedComa And, no actually, all it takes to retcon anything is a few simple sentences. [/quote]They could make the whole thing non-canon... But the game "Halo 4" is already coming out. Events have already been set in place. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] OrderedComa [quote][b]Posted by:[/b]Spartan1995324 Though I disagree with Coma on any subjects, he knows his stuff.[/quote] Actually "he", should be "she", haha :P But that's ok, it's impossible to tell what gender someone is online usually unless they tell.[/quote]Well then, [i]this changes everything...[/i] No not really.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Spartan1995324[/quote] Being wary isn't the same as wanting to continue fighting and exterminating them though. There's nothing funky about being wary even if they like them, I wouldn't find that weird at all, not really anyway. You seem to be grossly underestimating the passage of time and how that plays out on feelings and emotions...after all the people who've directly participated in the war have died off, there isn't going to be anymore intense hatred, it's eventually going to fizzle out as anything widespread. Take the Holocaust for instance, it's always going to be a sore spot between Israel and Germany, but the two nations get on well enough with each other (well about as well as Israel gets on with any other nation...they're rather suspicious of everyone, and with fairly good reason) and Jews and Germans get on well enough with each other...time fixes everything. And after a 30+ year war, humanity is tired of fighting, and the Elites are still about a million times stronger than humanity militarily, if war actually was started up again they'd stomp all over whatever humans fought them just like what happened during the Human-Covenant War...and advances with Forerunner technology are not going to be made quickly, by the time humanity would be able to put up any kind of decent fight against the Elites or any other faction using all Covenant technology, the emotions of the war would have long faded from mainstream opinion and view. No, what Parangosky is doing is being a petty -blam!-. Her actions are not helping humanity in any way are just the seeds for more war if not handled properly, which is what's happening, she is displaying every ounce of incompetence and lunacy she has. All of Parangosky's actions and manipulations are just the seeds for humanity's extermination. Both sides are tired of fighting and don't want more war....but because Parangosky is an arrogant -blam!- and thinks she knows better than anyone, she's decided to be a traitor and put her own interests before the UNSC's or humanity's. And, no actually, all it takes to retcon anything is a few simple sentences. [quote]Though I disagree with Coma on any subjects, he knows his stuff.[/quote] Actually "he", should be "she", haha :P But that's ok, it's impossible to tell what gender someone is online usually unless they tell. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] RobertoJH[/quote] Gravemind? Seriously? That's your source? Hah XD I'll take anything that chronic liar says with a whole universe full of salt...everything it says is some sort of manipulation, outright lie, or twisting of the truth in order to suit its own ends and get people to do what it wants. Nothing that Little Shop of Horrors reject says can be trusted. Any truth in what it says is so covered up with lies that it might as well be lying outright. What the Terminals says about the Forerunners is not something that can be described as evil. It's being over-protective and taking a good thing too far as well as being rather lacking in foresight, but it's not evil or anything that can be considered that way. When did I ever say the Forerunners were perfect or never did anything wrong? They clearly have flaws...but that does not make one evil or un-heroic, even the best heroes have flaws, but that does not make them unworthy of respect or holding them in honor and high regard. The Forerunners are heroes and amongst the good guys in Halo, just like the characters from both sides of the Human-Covenant War who've rallied together to stop the Flood and Truth and his rabble of zealots. Glasslands and Thursday War begs to disagree with you. Jul is not motivated by wanting to save the Elites, not completely, it's primarily hatred of humans. Do you forget that he views them as vermin and the scum of the earth? Or any of the other Elite characters we see besides the Arbiter? They all express the same opinions on humans as Jul does....all of which are motivated by hatred and in addition, we get Phillips, the so-called "expert" on all things Elite, saying that every single one hates us as well, and no Elites who agree with the Arbiter's views on humans are even mentioned at all. You also have every 99% of the planet going -blam!- nuts and on a rampage just because Parangosky's evil little cronies set foot on Sangheilios to extract the Elite "expert" Phillips. And I am not generalizing anything, as I have quite explicitly stated things only terms of "majority" and "minority" I have never once said that every single Elite ever shares the same view as Thel. And unlike Traviss I am not making bull--blam!- up to fit my own agenda...it's all over Halo 3 and the promotional material for it as well as Halo 2 and the guide book that came with it (Conversations from the Universe), and every single piece of the lore released after Halo 2 all the way up to when Travissty cocked things up with her shyte. No they haven't ONI has always been directly subservient to and monitored by the UNSC, that's how the lore has always treated it, from the very start, aka The Fall of Reach. As long as there has been an ONI, they have been treated as being held accountable for their actions by the UNSC. They are not separate, they are a division of the military and under the chain of command of the UNSC and the government itself, the UEG. ONI has no right to encourage more war when humanity is in such a precarious position and on the verge of extinction still and who they're trying to piss off and start a war with would be able to stomp humanity into the dust so that they'd never rise again if they wanted to. If a war was started with the Elites, it would be the same situation as in the Human-Covenant War all over again and humanity would be wiped out, no amount of trying to start a civil war is going to change that. ONI would not be acting as they are in Glasslands if they were really focused on humanity's best interests and what would serve them....they would be working Hood and the rest of the government to secure alliance and an official truce with the Arbiter for the Elites and humanity. Instead, Parangosky is showing how much of a petty, spiteful, and selfish -blam!- she is by acting in her own interests as opposed to those of humanity. [Edited on 11.05.2012 4:53 PM PST]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ROBERTO jh and by direct design or consequence, our inevitable expansion will suffocate them.[/quote] Which is itself an ill conceived, contrived, redundant and otherwise useless premise to start from.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Cmdr DaeFaron [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Spartan1995324 I never said they CANNOT at any point in time. I'm simply saying that in the [i][u]immediate[/u] post war[/i] era, tensions will still be high. There are still going to be people who don't feel safe or won't be satisfied until the enemy is crushed. Maybe in a few decades, but not anytime soon. Any peace that would result would be far too shaky to calm either side.[/quote] The problem is, it's immediately post war we hear about jackals, brutes, and humans living together peacefully on Venezia. [/quote]The Elites see as the greatest threat, and believe we will come for them first. They were on the front lines for most of the war, so they were the most prominent image humans had of the Covenant. Jackals are business dealers and don't care who they carry out business with. Brutes I can allying with Humans to try and eliminate Elites. Both are wary of the Sangheili as well. However the Humans on Venezia are Innies and therefore hate UNSC Humans as well. For all we know, the Jackals and Brutes are just using them.

Halo is slowly becoming more and more like Star Wars; a mess with a fantastic core. So many people want their piece of the cake, and far too many of them want to twist it into what they like, completely disregarding or respecting what it actually is. Most of the [i]fans[/i] are overly accepting, tolerant to the point where it becomes ridiculous, they don't care if the formula becomes diluted at all. Just look at the Flood, the view of the IP is as shallow as it gets. [i]Oh, there are purple aliens in it, and Master Chief? yeah, it's Halo.[/i] But I shouldn't be so harsh, they like what it has become, hardly anyone agrees with the cynical. Wrote a [url=http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=75609987]blogg[i]ish[/i][/url] thread on my views a couple of days ago, and it became clear to me that I was pretty much alone, so I'll let it be. [quote]On topic:[/quote]I'm not sure I care anymore, after Silencium I'm done, not even getting 4. But if Bungie somehow were to reaquire the rights to the franchise, I would however be more relaxed, knowing that they'd most likely leave it alone, at least give it a rest.[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] RaamSkorge Hahaha you know nothing of Halo.[/quote]Care to elaborate? [Edited on 11.04.2012 4:27 PM PST]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Spartan1995324 I never said they CANNOT at any point in time. I'm simply saying that in the [i][u]immediate[/u] post war[/i] era, tensions will still be high. There are still going to be people who don't feel safe or won't be satisfied until the enemy is crushed. Maybe in a few decades, but not anytime soon. Any peace that would result would be far too shaky to calm either side.[/quote] The problem is, it's immediately post war we hear about jackals, brutes, and humans living together peacefully on Venezia.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] OrderedComa [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Spartan1995324 The terminals in Halo 3 seem to suggest otherwise... Besides it makes sense. All those who come into power become corrupt, no exceptions.[/quote] And that would be where? >_> I've read the Terminals many times now and I haven't seen a single thing in them to denote the Forerunners as being even the least bit evil. That does not preclude there being individuals who are evil, such as Faber the Master Builder, but nothing in the terminals even remotely comes close to making the Didact or whole Forerunner species seem evil. [u]Librarian mentions that they have dominated the galaxy for far too long, and Gravemind says that the Forerunners are actively preventing the natural evolution of civilizations. Not because they fight him, but because they work against other life, if I recall correctly.[/u] That's actually not a true statement at all. People in power have the [i]potential[/i] to become corrupt (which does not inherently mean evil), but just because someone holds power does not make them corrupt. As Daefaron said, I suppose you think the Founding Fathers were corrupt and thus, as you seem to equate, evil? [u]Everyone is corrupt, some more so than others. Ben franklin for example was amongst the most promiscuous people in history. No one can be the perfect Mary Sue, and it would be moronic to expect that out of even the Forerunners. No matter how powerful they are, they are still mortal. Universally believing themselves to be God's gift to the universe as a matter of law doesn't help either.[/u] [quote]The story would more or less be the same. The only thing that would change is that the presence of "pro-human" Elites would be made known to the reader, as opposed to how Travis has made them seem non existent. In other words, a real split in the Elite world. However I doubt Bungie would change a lot of the story. Too much work, and honestly the picture Travis has painted so far seems realistic. After 25 years of war, any peace that has formed will be tense and there will be haters on both sides. However we both know this isn't going to happen is just a fantasy that some people want because the Halo Universe isn't going/is what they thought it was.[/quote] Eh, I don't think the story would be the same at all. But on the good Elites and those who are human sympathizers and/or supporters of the Arbiter's goals of peace and no more war at all with humanity getting better representation and actually having as significant role in the story as the Servants of Abiding Truth we can agree on at least. Whether it seems realistic or not...it's not what was laid out as what was supposed to be happening post war, at least the way Traviss is doing it is not realistic. Her Elites have no reason to hate humans other than just "humans are bad...um, yeah", basically going "just because", which is not any kind of legitimate reason. [u]That is objectively false. Their reasoning for wanting to destroy us preventative, so we don't do the same to them because they know we obviously have no love for the Elites, and by direct design or consequence, our inevitable expansion will suffocate them. In fact, it isn't even really hate, it's more strong fear being channeled as hatred.[/u] And her attitude that every single Elite except for the Arbiter hates humans and wants to kill them all again is also likewise not realistic or in line with had been set up as canon before she came along. [u]Also not true, as we've only ever seen 2 Keeps: Vadam and M'dama. Telcam's people tolerates us, and respects us enough to work with us, and there is a whole world of Keeps who probably don't even care. You're making the exact same mistake you accuse Traviss of making by generalizing 1 Keep as representative of the entire planet. We simply never hear about them because they either don't matter because they're indifferent, or actually [i]do[/i] want peace, but are unimportant given that they need to establish the Storm enemies.[/u] Yes, there will be xenophobic people on both side, however ONI would not be one of them, and even if they were, anyone attempting the treason that Parangosky is would not be able to do so, ONI is strictly overseen by the UNSC and can't act entirely on its own without anyone knowing what it's doing. [u]What evidence of this do you have? ONI and the UNSC have always been treated as two seperate entities, like twins: intimately connected, but still seperate. As a black ops organization, deniability needs to be established for the seedier goings-on at the ONI, so less people are made aware of it. The people in charge who [i]do[/i] have access are obviously in agreement with Parangosky's belief that the Elites are dangerous, and can you really blame them? Also, how are ONI "not one of them." As the silent protectors of the human race with full access to the grittiest detail of the war, they have more right to be xenophobic than anyone in the galaxy.[/u] [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Raam Skorge Hahaha you know nothing of Halo.[/quote] Oh really? And what makes you say that, hmm? I know a lot more about Halo than quite a few of the people here or just as much as they do. My account here may not be as old as some, but I've always been one of the most active members on here since arriving and I've spent more time than I care to think about on Halo, whether reading the books or playing the games several dozen times over or just simply browsing around on Halopedian. I know plenty about Halo, acting as if I don't and that you're better than me is not the way to win any arguments and or make you any friends.[/quote]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] OrderedComa [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Spartan1995324 The terminals in Halo 3 seem to suggest otherwise... Besides it makes sense. All those who come into power become corrupt, no exceptions.[/quote] And that would be where? >_> I've read the Terminals many times now and I haven't seen a single thing in them to denote the Forerunners as being even the least bit evil. That does not preclude there being individuals who are evil, such as Faber the Master Builder, but nothing in the terminals even remotely comes close to making the Didact or whole Forerunner species seem evil.[/quote]I never said all the Forerunners were "evil" as well. Their species was divided like all other species. The people with bad intentions got into power and screwed them over. Nothing special there. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] OrderedComa That's actually not a true statement at all. People in power have the [i]potential[/i] to become corrupt (which does not inherently mean evil), but just because someone holds power does not make them corrupt. As Daefaron said, I suppose you think the Founding Fathers were corrupt and thus, as you seem to equate, evil?[/quote]Not sure if you read my other post. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] OrderedComa [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Spartan1995324 The story would more or less be the same. The only thing that would change is that the presence of "pro-human" Elites would be made known to the reader, as opposed to how Travis has made them seem non existent. In other words, a real split in the Elite world. However I doubt Bungie would change a lot of the story. Too much work, and honestly the picture Travis has painted so far seems realistic. After 25 years of war, any peace that has formed will be tense and there will be haters on both sides. However we both know this isn't going to happen is just a fantasy that some people want because the Halo Universe isn't going/is what they thought it was.[/quote]Eh, I don't think the story would be the same at all. But on the good Elites and those who are human sympathizers and/or supporters of the Arbiter's goals of peace and no more war at all with humanity getting better representation and actually having as significant role in the story as the Servants of Abiding Truth we can agree on at least.[/quote] 1. Yes it would be pretty similar to what we have now. Too much work to retcon everything that has been leading up to Halo 4. 2. Yes, both side were not represented equally. Only the one. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] OrderedComa Whether it seems realistic or not...it's not what was laid out as what was supposed to be happening post war, at least the way Traviss is doing it is not realistic. Her Elites have no reason to hate humans other than just "humans are bad...um, yeah", basically going "just because", which is not any kind of legitimate reason. And her attitude that every single Elite except for the Arbiter hates humans and wants to kill them all again is also likewise not realistic or in line with had been set up as canon before she came along. Yes, there will be xenophobic people on both side, however ONI would not be one of them, and even if they were, anyone attempting the treason that Parangosky is would not be able to do so, ONI is strictly overseen by the UNSC and can't act entirely on its own without anyone knowing what it's doing.[/quote]The Elites have every reason to be wary of humanity. They know that as a species, they will never forget what the Covenant did to them. It doesn't matter to the Humans who gave the order of who carried it out, the Covenant as a whole is responsible. What the Elites are unsure of is if Humanity will strike back. Some Elites don't feel safe, so they want to end the threat permantely. ONI's job is to serve humanity. ONI is just trying to buy time for Humanity to rebuild, but through a Sangheili civil war as opposed to a cease fire or even a truce. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Raam Skorge Hahaha you know nothing of Halo.[/quote]Though I disagree with Coma on any subjects, he knows his stuff.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] RaamSkorge Hahaha you know nothing of Halo.[/quote] Coma knows more than most.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Spartan1995324 The terminals in Halo 3 seem to suggest otherwise... Besides it makes sense. All those who come into power become corrupt, no exceptions.[/quote] And that would be where? >_> I've read the Terminals many times now and I haven't seen a single thing in them to denote the Forerunners as being even the least bit evil. That does not preclude there being individuals who are evil, such as Faber the Master Builder, but nothing in the terminals even remotely comes close to making the Didact or whole Forerunner species seem evil. That's actually not a true statement at all. People in power have the [i]potential[/i] to become corrupt (which does not inherently mean evil), but just because someone holds power does not make them corrupt. As Daefaron said, I suppose you think the Founding Fathers were corrupt and thus, as you seem to equate, evil? [quote]The story would more or less be the same. The only thing that would change is that the presence of "pro-human" Elites would be made known to the reader, as opposed to how Travis has made them seem non existent. In other words, a real split in the Elite world. However I doubt Bungie would change a lot of the story. Too much work, and honestly the picture Travis has painted so far seems realistic. After 25 years of war, any peace that has formed will be tense and there will be haters on both sides. However we both know this isn't going to happen is just a fantasy that some people want because the Halo Universe isn't going/is what they thought it was.[/quote] Eh, I don't think the story would be the same at all. But on the good Elites and those who are human sympathizers and/or supporters of the Arbiter's goals of peace and no more war at all with humanity getting better representation and actually having as significant role in the story as the Servants of Abiding Truth we can agree on at least. Whether it seems realistic or not...it's not what was laid out as what was supposed to be happening post war, at least the way Traviss is doing it is not realistic. Her Elites have no reason to hate humans other than just "humans are bad...um, yeah", basically going "just because", which is not any kind of legitimate reason. And her attitude that every single Elite except for the Arbiter hates humans and wants to kill them all again is also likewise not realistic or in line with had been set up as canon before she came along. Yes, there will be xenophobic people on both side, however ONI would not be one of them, and even if they were, anyone attempting the treason that Parangosky is would not be able to do so, ONI is strictly overseen by the UNSC and can't act entirely on its own without anyone knowing what it's doing. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Raam Skorge Hahaha you know nothing of Halo.[/quote] Oh really? And what makes you say that, hmm? I know a lot more about Halo than quite a few of the people here or just as much as they do. My account here may not be as old as some, but I've always been one of the most active members on here since arriving and I've spent more time than I care to think about on Halo, whether reading the books or playing the games several dozen times over or just simply browsing around on Halopedian. I know plenty about Halo, acting as if I don't and that you're better than me is not the way to win any arguments and or make you any friends.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Cmdr DaeFaron [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Spartan1995324 Besides it makes sense. All those who come into power become corrupt, no exceptions. [/quote] I give you the jedi? Or say, oh, oh, Guild wars 1. A human BECAME A GOD. And she wasn't corrupt. Guild Wars, order of whispers. Holders of a -blam!-on of knowledge. Not corrupt. Durmand Priory, guys with the most knowledge including ancient rituals. Not corrupt. Seriously, the "No exceptions, everybody with great power is corrupt" is frakking false. Edit: Hey, the founding fathers must have been corrupt. They held power. George Washington too. I mean, he was one of the most powerful men in America back then.[/quote]Ok, I shouldn't say ALL, but a vast majority do. The way the Forerunners are pictured seems perfectly reasonable to me. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Cmdr DaeFaron [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Gamer Whale [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Spartan1995324 After 25 years of war, any peace that has formed will be tense and there will be haters on both sides.[/quote]Yeah, but if a one of guys with biggest influence on the other side is friendly to you, would you try to destabilise his position?[/quote] In traviss town, yes. Seriously, Spartan-string of numbers. Explain to me why the Elites and Humans CANNOT have peace, yet Humans, brutes, jackals, and possibly even grunts can all live together peacefully on a single planet? [/quote]I never said they CANNOT at any point in time. I'm simply saying that in the [i][u]immediate[/u] post war[/i] era, tensions will still be high. There are still going to be people who don't feel safe or won't be satisfied until the enemy is crushed. Maybe in a few decades, but not anytime soon. Any peace that would result would be far too shaky to calm either side.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Spartan1995324 Besides it makes sense. All those who come into power become corrupt, no exceptions. [/quote] I give you the jedi? Or say, oh, oh, Guild wars 1. A human BECAME A GOD. And she wasn't corrupt. Guild Wars, order of whispers. Holders of a -blam!-on of knowledge. Not corrupt. Durmand Priory, guys with the most knowledge including ancient rituals. Not corrupt. Seriously, the "No exceptions, everybody with great power is corrupt" is frakking false. Edit: Hey, the founding fathers must have been corrupt. They held power. George Washington too. I mean, he was one of the most powerful men in America back then. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Gamer Whale [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Spartan1995324 After 25 years of war, any peace that has formed will be tense and there will be haters on both sides.[/quote]Yeah, but if a one of guys with biggest influence on the other side is friendly to you, would you try to destabilise his position?[/quote] In traviss town, yes. Seriously, Spartan-string of numbers. Explain to me why the Elites and Humans CANNOT have peace, yet Humans, brutes, jackals, and possibly even grunts can all live together peacefully on a single planet? [Edited on 11.04.2012 2:55 PM PST]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] RaamSkorge Hahaha you know nothing of Halo.[/quote] Why doesn't she? Calling the Forerunners evil is a bit of a stretch, yes, but her Halsey and Elite perspectives aren't unfounded in the slightest.

Hahaha you know nothing of Halo.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Spartan1995324 After 25 years of war, any peace that has formed will be tense and there will be haters on both sides.[/quote]Yeah, but if a one of guys with biggest influence on the other side is friendly to you, would you try to destabilise his position?

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] OrderedComa Forerunners wouldn't be evil,[/quote] The terminals in Halo 3 seem to suggest otherwise... Besides it makes sense. All those who come into power become corrupt, no exceptions. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] OrderedComa Elites would not be evil and would be forming an alliance with humanity or at the very least taking up a somewhat isolationist stance while they rebuild and restructure their society while working toward closer ties with humanity. Storm would not be being made into a big deal, I'm pretty sure of that too.[/quote] The story would more or less be the same. The only thing that would change is that the presence of "pro-human" Elites would be made known to the reader, as opposed to how Travis has made them seem non existent. In other words, a real split in the Elite world. However I doubt Bungie would change a lot of the story. Too much work, and honestly the picture Travis has painted so far seems realistic. After 25 years of war, any peace that has formed will be tense and there will be haters on both sides. However we both know this isn't going to happen is just a fantasy that some people want because the Halo Universe isn't going/is what they thought it was.