[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Cmdr DaeFaron You've never played Halo 2 then. Again, you are using gameplay/game genre to say an enemy is worthless. Halo being an FPS has no meaning to canon quality of the Brutes. MP maps have nothing to do with Brutes. Again, I've disproven your shoddy and clearly uninformed "brutes don't use any tactical thinking" because in Halo 3 they have beam rifles, active camo, jump packs, carbines, etc. So. According to your logic then Elite Zealots do not think tactically and are stupid to hell as well. Since they use energy swords. Again, I dare you to try my challenge. You'll NEVER get past Halo 2. It's a fact.[/quote] I agree with you. Halo as a game may be an FPS, but the story isn't an FPS story. It's a story about war against the covenant, and the brutes would've used melee to dispatch a lot of marines and even Spartans since they are super strong. The one thing I don't like about the brutes in game is they are too easy to kill. It's ridicolous how an ODST can beat down brutes. If it were up to me, brutes would kill you in 2 hits even on easy, and they would take so many melees that melee isn't even an option to kill them. In Halo 2 and 3 it's understandable since you are a spartan super soldier. I would also make it so they don't have to be stripped of armour to go berserk. Witnessing other brutes die would make them go berserk, and making multiple attacks and missing you would make them enraged. Also, if an ally accidentally injures them, they will berserk and turn on them. This mean that if you can manipulate a hunter to hit a brute, the brute will berserk and turn on the hunter and try to melee it to death. Brutes would also pull out a plasma pistol after berserking. An enraged brute will throw down their current weapon and try to melee you, but after they calm down, they will pull out a plasma pistol. If you can get a whole group of brutes to berserk and then wait it out, they will all become easier kills as they have a weaker weapon.

You've never played Halo 2 then. Again, you are using gameplay/game genre to say an enemy is worthless. Halo being an FPS has no meaning to canon quality of the Brutes. MP maps have nothing to do with Brutes. Again, I've disproven your shoddy and clearly uninformed "brutes don't use any tactical thinking" because in Halo 3 they have beam rifles, active camo, jump packs, carbines, etc. So. According to your logic then Elite Zealots do not think tactically and are stupid to hell as well. Since they use energy swords. Again, I dare you to try my challenge. You'll NEVER get past Halo 2. It's a fact. [Edited on 07.12.2012 12:20 PM PDT]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Cmdr DaeFaron A: Feral stage. A grunt is more intelligent. A2: Gravemind stage. It's smarter then EVERYTHING ELSE OUT THERE. Point remains, it's just a stupid thing to say because they are either feral and mindless, or smarter then everybody else individually due to gravemind memory absorbing. B: What happened? Oh yeah... A brute, being pinned by master chief, lifted himself, chief (in mark V) and chief's gear... with a SINGLE HAND. Still, your comment about it mattering little due to being an FPS is a massively stupid move. If it didn't matter, WHY does chief have a melee attack? Oh yeah... the brute's never got "easily obliterated." In chief's first real fight with them, it nearly ended HORRIBLY for him. How many times has chief ended up in close quarters? A dang lot against the flood. Do tell me how you managed to go through EVERY single flood level without ever hitting that melee button. I'm dying to know. Since it's an FPS melee is pointless right? edit: Hell, the entire game too. Did you play every single halo FPS and never touch melee, ONCE? Doubtful. C: You know NOTHING of the lore then. The Elites DID purposefully restrict what gear and ships the brutes could have. Hell, their condition on a brute controlled ship was "No engineers, no repairing the weapon systems we purposefully damaged." Also, oh yeah... I remember Brutes in halo 3... USING BEAM RIFLES and carbines! As well as active camo. And they were just as much a threat as Elites![/quote] oh no! a brute can lift chief in his armor! idiot, learn to read. i never said they are weak. they are only smart pack wise . i've gone through every halo game legendary solo, never had to run up to something and punch it, its for the people who spam beat downs like how everyone does online. and im pretty sure a bullet will hurt way more then a punch. why do i say halo is a fps (besides that it is) is because every halo map is a long/medium range map with few close range maps (and those close range parts are where everyone camps). lets see..put a group of brutes on one side of Valhalla all running over to beat someone down and lets put one spartan on the other side with a br or dmr. its literally target practice for the spartan. and also for campaign levels, everything is very spaced out, the only times that would count as me using melee on something would be when i had a energy sword or a gravity hammer. oh another thing, why are there only 2 melee weapons that exist in halo? again, halo is a first person SHOOTER not a first person melee. the only reason why its in halo is for little 9yr olds to run up and double beat you down because they are just like brutes, don't know how to be tactical. another thing, if brutes are so smart they why do they only use explosive weapons? all you need to do for an explosive weapon is shoot near or around your target to hit them.

A: Feral stage. A grunt is more intelligent. A2: Gravemind stage. It's smarter then EVERYTHING ELSE OUT THERE. Point remains, it's just a stupid thing to say because they are either feral and mindless, or smarter then everybody else individually due to gravemind memory absorbing. B: What happened? Oh yeah... A brute, being pinned by master chief, lifted himself, chief (in mark V) and chief's gear... with a SINGLE HAND. Still, your comment about it mattering little due to being an FPS is a massively stupid move. If it didn't matter, WHY does chief have a melee attack? Oh yeah... the brute's never got "easily obliterated." In chief's first real fight with them, it nearly ended HORRIBLY for him. How many times has chief ended up in close quarters? A dang lot against the flood. Do tell me how you managed to go through EVERY single flood level without ever hitting that melee button. I'm dying to know. Since it's an FPS melee is pointless right? edit: Hell, the entire game too. Did you play every single halo FPS and never touch melee, ONCE? Doubtful. C: You know NOTHING of the lore then. The Elites DID purposefully restrict what gear and ships the brutes could have. Hell, their condition on a brute controlled ship was "No engineers, no repairing the weapon systems we purposefully damaged." Also, oh yeah... I remember Brutes in halo 3... USING BEAM RIFLES and carbines! As well as active camo. And they were just as much a threat as Elites! Edit: What the hell. I challenge you, person who says physical strength is pointless in an FPS, to perform this task. Play EVERY halo FPS, without EVER doing something relating to physical strength. That means, No melee attacks. No assassinations. No vehicle boardings. No vehicle flipping. I'd love to see you actually complete this. But you won't. Because of one enemy. Regret. That's all I'll say. [Edited on 07.12.2012 11:53 AM PDT]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Cmdr DaeFaron [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] BatiiSta yes, brutes are very stong. buuutt.... elites are great leaders, they have the best tactics and they are the best equipped for their environment and mission. brutes are only good with physical strength (wait...but halo is a first person SHOOTER) elites would ruin a group of brutes, as elites are strong in long range and close range. the reason why i hate brutes is because the prophets tried to replace elites with brutes taking away the honor the elites should have (while brutes did nothing to earn their honor) and there is already a race like brutes but is a lot more smart and tactical, the flood. but they haven't obliterated the entire human race and elites have they? [/quote] Brutes can be just as cunning and smart. It's called the Elites hoarded the advanced Covenant gear and the training involved with it. Hence brutes using their own weapons instead of standard Covenant issue gear. Brutes are strong, but also very fast. One moved just as fast if not faster as Master Chief in Mark V armor, and was able to lift itself + Chief's full weight in armor... With a single hand. While being actively pinned down. Flood being 'smart and tactical' is a very stupid thing to say. Cause it's either A: Feral mode which makes the GRUNTS smarter. or B: a gravemind, which would outsmart literally any foe due to gathered memories. And besides... doing that retarded "Halo is FPS, therefore being physically strong is useless." really... you know, doesn't work. That's trying to apply the game genre+gameplay to canon.[/quote] what do you mean the flood aren't smart and tactical? they are designed to wipe out the entire universe. and great, the brutes are strong, as i said it doesn't matter in a fps because what happened to the brutes in the game and books? hmm...what was that? they kinda got obliterated by chief and flood alike? oh and another thing, throughout all of chiefs story how many times has he needed his 'strength' to over come an obstacle? hmm...thats weird...i can't recall chief ever needing to run up and punch something to death...(besides keyes and he was already dead). and elites didn't 'hoard' advanced covenant gear, all of their equipment requires more tactical thinking (active camo, carbines, snipers) then what brutes use (gravity hammers, brute shots, armor lock). brutes have all their equipment based on melee. if you were to give a brute a sniper, they would have no idea how to use it and be an easy kill. [Edited on 07.12.2012 10:45 AM PDT]

Brutes became boring to fight. Before you did have an interesting Brute rush dynamic in Halo 2. While it was implemented slightly crap it did make things interesting. But now they just feel like bigger grunts, in terms of gameplay and thats kinda boring.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Cheeto666 Brutes could have been a much greater foe. Bungie got the part with them being terrifyingly strong right, but they needed to be more intelligent. In the games, their strategies and actions just came off as stupid. And for some reason, Bungie decided to apply that to the Elites in Halo Reach (making them charge with blind rage when they get hurt). Bungie always talked about wanting to give them a pack mentality, which would have truly made them a horrifying enemy. Think, when you pop one brute's shields, he charges you. But what if all of the rest of the pack charged you too? They're supposed to be blood brothers or some crap, so if one is about to bite the bullet, it would make sense that they would get enraged too. So, then, imagine getting bull-rushed by five angry brutes all at once. That's what is wrong with the brutes. Bungie wanted to give them character, but never played it out. Instead, they remained bullet sponges like they were in Halo 2, which is an undynamic and uninteresting enemy to fight. No one hates the brutes, they hate fighting them, because it's just grinding through, not a challenge. [/quote]I can't believe I skipped this post! The Brutes should have been swarming. Instead, all we got was 1 Brute at a time. And he moved slowly (in Reach). I know from my H2 days that killing 1 or both dual wielding Elites at the Cairo bomb room fight will cause all of the Elites to swarm you, even if you hide in the elevator. [u]Enemy emotion has been outright abandoned in Reach for pure feral aggression.[/u] There's no avenging. Just a bunch of mooks who don't even use cover. H2 Brutes had emotion (get one to berserk and hide. He'll be weeping) and they are certainly more successful than Reach Brutes in conveying their anger (they ran faster than CE Zealots and CE Hunters). [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] MountianDew 000 you should try my custom firefight game called " ~ Brutes ~ " with specific skull settings and by setting the yellow , blue and red skulls I enhanced there shooting , sight , grenades " catch " , and hearing, to the max and you got a challenge =} [/quote]Reach Firefight is too limited to properly improve them without making them op. [Edited on 07.12.2012 12:25 AM PDT]

That's right, I also think they are very annoying, very very annoying,..... _________________ [url=http://www.halongluxuryjunk.com]Halong bay tours package[/url]-[url=http://www.galatourist.com]Travel Vietnam[/url]-[url=http://www.gingerhalongcruise.com]Ginger cruise[/url] [Edited on 08.29.2012 9:36 PM PDT]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Cheeto666 Brutes could have been a much greater foe. Bungie got the part with them being terrifyingly strong right, but they needed to be more intelligent. In the games, their strategies and actions just came off as stupid. And for some reason, Bungie decided to apply that to the Elites in Halo Reach (making them charge with blind rage when they get hurt). Bungie always talked about wanting to give them a pack mentality, which would have truly made them a horrifying enemy. Think, when you pop one brute's shields, he charges you. But what if all of the rest of the pack charged you too? They're supposed to be blood brothers or some crap, so if one is about to bite the bullet, it would make sense that they would get enraged too. So, then, imagine getting bull-rushed by five angry brutes all at once. That's what is wrong with the brutes. Bungie wanted to give them character, but never played it out. Instead, they remained bullet sponges like they were in Halo 2, which is an undynamic and uninteresting enemy to fight. No one hates the brutes, they hate fighting them, because it's just grinding through, not a challenge. [/quote] you should try my custom firefight game called " ~ Brutes ~ " with specific skull settings and by setting the yellow , blue and red skulls I enhanced there shooting , sight , grenades " catch " , and hearing, to the max and you got a challenge =}

Dinosaurs > Gorillas

I like them in the novels they just aren't good to fight against

Because human weapons do the damage of cotton pellets on ODST...

I just think they are very annoying.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Sector Z 157 [i]Et tu, Brute?[/i] I found Brutes to be an alright enemy in Halo 3. It's difficult to create an enemy that was fun to fight for the first, second, and millionth time. Brutes did not pose a threat, even on Legendary. Halo 2 seemed to have the best balance of enemies, with their strengths and weaknesses.[/quote] Yeah, it's hard to making a variety of enemies who aren't just copies of each other. If they feel too much alike, it's not interesting.

[i]Et tu, Brute?[/i] I found Brutes to be an alright enemy in Halo 3. It's difficult to create an enemy that was fun to fight for the first, second, and millionth time. Brutes did not pose a threat, even on Legendary. Halo 2 seemed to have the best balance of enemies, with their strengths and weaknesses.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] BatiiSta yes, brutes are very stong. buuutt.... elites are great leaders, they have the best tactics and they are the best equipped for their environment and mission. brutes are only good with physical strength (wait...but halo is a first person SHOOTER) elites would ruin a group of brutes, as elites are strong in long range and close range. the reason why i hate brutes is because the prophets tried to replace elites with brutes taking away the honor the elites should have (while brutes did nothing to earn their honor) and there is already a race like brutes but is a lot more smart and tactical, the flood. but they haven't obliterated the entire human race and elites have they? [/quote] Brutes can be just as cunning and smart. It's called the Elites hoarded the advanced Covenant gear and the training involved with it. Hence brutes using their own weapons instead of standard Covenant issue gear. Brutes are strong, but also very fast. One moved just as fast if not faster as Master Chief in Mark V armor, and was able to lift itself + Chief's full weight in armor... With a single hand. While being actively pinned down. Flood being 'smart and tactical' is a very stupid thing to say. Cause it's either A: Feral mode which makes the GRUNTS smarter. or B: a gravemind, which would outsmart literally any foe due to gathered memories. And besides... doing that retarded "Halo is FPS, therefore being physically strong is useless." really... you know, doesn't work. That's trying to apply the game genre+gameplay to canon.

yes, brutes are very stong. buuutt.... elites are great leaders, they have the best tactics and they are the best equipped for their environment and mission. brutes are only good with physical strength (wait...but halo is a first person SHOOTER) elites would ruin a group of brutes, as elites are strong in long range and close range. the reason why i hate brutes is because the prophets tried to replace elites with brutes taking away the honor the elites should have (while brutes did nothing to earn their honor) and there is already a race like brutes but is a lot more smart and tactical, the flood. but they haven't obliterated the entire human race and elites have they?

Personally, I hated the Halo 3 brutes. They were way too easy. Halo 2's brutes needed a little tweaking and would have been by far a greater enemy to fight than the rest. Book-canon-wise, they are -blamming- scary as hell.

Brutes are -blam!- peices if -blam!-!

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Quantam [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Cheeto666 Brutes could have been a much greater foe. Bungie got the part with them being terrifyingly strong right, but they needed to be more intelligent. In the games, their strategies and actions just came off as stupid. And for some reason, Bungie decided to apply that to the Elites in Halo Reach (making them charge with blind rage when they get hurt). Bungie always talked about wanting to give them a pack mentality, which would have truly made them a horrifying enemy. Think, when you pop one brute's shields, he charges you. But what if all of the rest of the pack charged you too? They're supposed to be blood brothers or some crap, so if one is about to bite the bullet, it would make sense that they would get enraged too. So, then, imagine getting bull-rushed by five angry brutes all at once. That's what is wrong with the brutes. Bungie wanted to give them character, but never played it out. Instead, they remained bullet sponges like they were in Halo 2, which is an undynamic and uninteresting enemy to fight. No one hates the brutes, they hate fighting them, because it's just grinding through, not a challenge. [/quote] But I liked the Elite charging mentality! They were aggressive, ruthless, bent on killing me, and on harder difficulties once one starts charging at you, you're dead. What the Brutes should have been, what Bungie did wrong was give them pathetic weapons like the Spiker. It is like dinosaur fighting us with a toothpick. [/quote]Reach Elite aggression is vastly inferior to CE Elite aggression. You could lead CE Elites on a long journey and they could follow you underwater. Reach Elites can only chase for a short time before they lose interest. It's only because they have uber speed that they're threatening. And it's not the charging that made the Reach Elites inefficient but their constant berserking. CE Zealot attributes were given to standard Elites. The constant berserking is a flaw given to only those who have powerful melees. What a coincidence... Bungie made them too powerful so they gave them a big flaw to make it easier to kill them. The problem is, it's too easy to kill them. Assassinating or going around CE Zealots was no easy matter. But assassinating or going around a Reach Elite is easy if you maintain contact with them (by bumping into their back). Actually, what they did wrong was focusing the skulls on difficulty alone. They didn't have any [i]great[/i] AI modifiers. Catch and Tough Luck were stupid. They're already diving freaks (speeded up animation) and frequent grenade throwing only makes it easier to assassinate/stick them. Seriously, if Angry or Assassins skull was thrown in there, H3 would be much more difficult. They already do high damage. Bungie couldn't put in AI modifiers without making them killers. So they just gave them a lot of health. They conceived a horrible correlation between health and showing off the AI. They've been doing this since H2, but only with marines, Jackals, Brutes, and Ultras. Now (as of Reach) nearly every enemy is a damage sponge. I'm glad Bungie's not working with Halo anymore. Reach AI have so many similarities with H2 AI: flinches with every shot, 1 hit kill melee to hide their ineptness (seriously, H2 Hunters were a piece of cake. Dual wield brute plasma rifles firing at their back. Or stick one with a plasma grenade while they're together and shoot them in their exposed back with the beam rifle), damage sponge, permanently invincible allies, -blam!- up Zealot rank, unstable vehicle physics, high damage, weaker player. Funny how Bungie said H2 was their worst game but made Reach so similar, only a thousand times worse. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Arbiter 739 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Sliding Ghost[/quote]Sir, you need a thread to dedicate to how correct most of that is. I don't even know where to begin, but you've hit the nail on the head. Looking back it's now so obvious why I've never really enjoyed the campaign of Halo 3. The enemies had too little tactical variety. [/quote]Wish I could but I'd just end up going off topic. Exactly. They're still damage sponges. They're just weaker. [Edited on 06.17.2012 10:20 AM PDT]

I find Brutes to be a great addition to the Halo franchise who showed a different side to the Covenant - showing the Covenant as a fairly delicate alliance - and also allowed the player to experience a truly great part of the Halo fiction; the Great Schism. Come at me. [Edited on 06.17.2012 4:51 AM PDT]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Cheeto666 Brutes could have been a much greater foe. Bungie got the part with them being terrifyingly strong right, but they needed to be more intelligent. In the games, their strategies and actions just came off as stupid. And for some reason, Bungie decided to apply that to the Elites in Halo Reach (making them charge with blind rage when they get hurt). Bungie always talked about wanting to give them a pack mentality, which would have truly made them a horrifying enemy. Think, when you pop one brute's shields, he charges you. But what if all of the rest of the pack charged you too? They're supposed to be blood brothers or some crap, so if one is about to bite the bullet, it would make sense that they would get enraged too. So, then, imagine getting bull-rushed by five angry brutes all at once. That's what is wrong with the brutes. Bungie wanted to give them character, but never played it out. Instead, they remained bullet sponges like they were in Halo 2, which is an undynamic and uninteresting enemy to fight. No one hates the brutes, they hate fighting them, because it's just grinding through, not a challenge. [/quote] But I liked the Elite charging mentality! They were aggressive, ruthless, bent on killing me, and on harder difficulties once one starts charging at you, you're dead. What the Brutes should have been, what Bungie did wrong was give them pathetic weapons like the Spiker. It is like dinosaur fighting us with a toothpick.

Brutes could have been a much greater foe. Bungie got the part with them being terrifyingly strong right, but they needed to be more intelligent. In the games, their strategies and actions just came off as stupid. And for some reason, Bungie decided to apply that to the Elites in Halo Reach (making them charge with blind rage when they get hurt). Bungie always talked about wanting to give them a pack mentality, which would have truly made them a horrifying enemy. Think, when you pop one brute's shields, he charges you. But what if all of the rest of the pack charged you too? They're supposed to be blood brothers or some crap, so if one is about to bite the bullet, it would make sense that they would get enraged too. So, then, imagine getting bull-rushed by five angry brutes all at once. That's what is wrong with the brutes. Bungie wanted to give them character, but never played it out. Instead, they remained bullet sponges like they were in Halo 2, which is an undynamic and uninteresting enemy to fight. No one hates the brutes, they hate fighting them, because it's just grinding through, not a challenge.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] DecepticonCobra [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] DeBleserMike Elites are like samurai or ancient civilizations, they care for themselves as well for others, traditions and their forefathers. The often do respect their enemy when the see their equel in them. They are well trained and disciplined. They are also very wise. They could be true inheritors of the Forerunners. But are easily convinced and therefore naive, but they admit it like true wise beings. [/quote] Halo: Glasslands pretty much destroyed that view of the Elites. Now they are just a bunch of xenophobic, religious sociopaths just waiting to kill more humans.[/quote] They were always a bunch of religious sociopaths. Zealots are a good example. And to be frank every civilization they have come across they have gone to war with. So they are pretty xenophobic. They were worshiping the Forerunners before it was cool(formation of the Covenant), so they are also a bunch hipster religious Zealots.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] dahuterschuter Because they went from being cool in Halo 2 to terrible in every later incarnation.[/quote] Haha true, H2 Brutes definitely were the best ones in the series. They really felt like a special group of tribal warriors in a futuristic alien conglomerate

Because they went from being cool in Halo 2 to terrible in every later incarnation.