To answer the question that the threadstarter asked, because n00bs complain about everything.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ZekeAWeek Pretty much all software has bugs, thats the nature of the beast with programming Good companies that care and want to keep their customers fix their mistakes with updates...tell me what piece of software you have that hasnt been updated ? Probably numerous times at that.[/quote] I believe that his point was that glitches such as these are not extremely important issues because everybody can do them. I believe that he thinks that they're bad enough to encourage players to leave cheating feedback on people who use these glitches, but they are not important enough that the money that is required to fix this problem and the danger that's involved in creating a patch for this doesn't justify the elimination of this problem. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ZekeAWeek How on earth do you know what will happen if you havent tried it yet ? That just doesnt make sense. You could just as easily make the problem go away as you could make it worse.[/quote] I believe that he doesn't know what will happen if he makes a patch for this, and I think that he doesn't want to take the risk of having something go wrong just to fix a minor issue. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ZekeAWeek This is funny, I believe this is called the price of doing business.[/quote] I think that another important part in running a business is to make money, and if they spend a lot of money on making a patch to fix this issue, then they may not get enough money back to justify it. I believe that this is his main concern. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ZekeAWeek Life in the Bungie world perhaps...there are plenty of software companies that listen to their customers complaints and fix their mistakes with multiple patches.[/quote] I believe that they don't want to risk the creation of another problem just to fix a few minor problems, and I think that he also doesn’t want to spend a lot of money on this issue, as well. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ZekeAWeek Lets hope Halo 3 is perfect, cause if there are any bugs Bungie will be far too busy working on their next "secret project" to give it any attention. And dont even think about complaing about it cause... [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Achronos Such is life [/quote] You read that right here first[/quote] Actually, he never said that they wouldn't try to fix any problems that their projects could possibly have. In fact, Bungie already released a patch for their most recent game. I think that his point was that Bungie won’t try to fix every minor problem in their games.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Achronos Some of you apparently lack basic reading comprehension. Stop picking and choosing between posts to suit your vision of "reality", and try reading them together. This includes you Predat0r, since you're apparently trying to run the thread off topic by trying to start yet another -blam!--fest about bugs, even though there are plenty of other threads about this and the issue has been beaten to death already. Do it again and you'll be banned for a while; I have little patience right now for more idiotic trolling like yours. If you don't like it, tough, go whine to the Halo2Sucks.com guys, they like talking about that kind of thing. Here are the facts - these aren't "opinions", or whatever word you are using to avoid what you don't want to hear. 1. [b]Any use of a glitch/bug in a game to acquire an advantage is cheating on Xbox Live.[/b] This includes but is not limited to superbouncing, flag through the wall tricks, leaving the map boundaries, triggering an animation bug using a sequence of button presses (BXR, etc.) [u]2. [b]Anytime you see someone cheating, you should leave feedback on them, but it is up to you whether to do so.[/b] You define whether an action is cheating - you can define the above actions as normal, or be hardcore and define all of them as cheating. Since you're the one reporting the cheater, you get to be the ultimate arbiter of if cheating is occuring. This is a very obvious thing to say, but most people don't understand this. [/u] 3. [b]Different organizations have different rules.[/b] When you're on Xbox Live, you have to deal with our rules (which are in point 1 and 2). This means that anybody who is bringing up "what MLG does" needs to pull their head out of their ass and look around. Are we talking about an MLG tournament? Is this the MLG web site? No! That means that we're talking about Bungie rules for playing on Xbox Live. MLG is free to define whatever rules they want, and in their rules, button combos are part of the game. Super jumping (I believe) is not. But as what they do is off topic to this discussion, you need to stop talking about it like it matters to what happens on Xbox Live, because it doesn't. [/quote] [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] SJC In all honesty, the only people that will get banned for this are the bad players who play with other bad players. You wont find a party w/ competitive level players and bad players. The competitive level players will use the combos to stay ahead of the competition. They will not leave feedback on each other, and the bad people who will leave feedback will never get into a party w/ them anyway. Again, declaring this cheating is pointless. MM continues to turn to -blam!-.[/quote] i agree with in part SJC, everyone should just read Achronos whole thread, i underline the part everyone should read, but please read the whole thing.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Achronos [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] modify So the melee cancel feature is a bug? Why didn't bungie remove it in the 1.1 update then?[/quote] The BXR is an animation bug. As for why it hasn't been removed in a patch, well that is easy if you know anything about software development. Anytime you change ANYTHING, you run a risk of creating a new bug. You could make the problem worse by attempting to fix it. In the case of BXR, you have to consider that a low-priority issue, because, even though it gives an advantage to players who exploit it, it isn't exactly "game-breaking" (if it were, the MLG probably wouldn't allow it in a tournament). And, the nature of the bug means that it is not a trival fix (I know it is hard to tell how hard something is to fix, but trust me on it for the sake of discussion, okay?). For comparison, modded maps are considered a "game-breaking" issue. While adding the banhammer took a lot of very non-trival, difficult work, the cost of doing so is easily justified. With BXR, it would be hard to justify a patch for something so minor. Remember, patching the game is extremely expensive, not only in regards to actual money, but in regards to the massive amount of time it takes to build a update. We would love to be able to fix every last little thing, but the reality of software is that we can't - otherwise we'd never be able to make any new games. Such is life. [/quote] Wow whatta buncha BS ! Pretty much all software has bugs, thats the nature of the beast with programming Good companies that care and want to keep their customers fix their mistakes with updates...tell me what piece of software you have that hasnt been updated ? Probably numerous times at that. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Achronos Anytime you change ANYTHING, you run a risk of creating a new bug. You could make the problem worse by attempting to fix it [/quote] How on earth do you know what will happen if you havent tried it yet ? That just doesnt make sense. You could just as easily make the problem go away as you could make it worse. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Achronos Remember, patching the game is extremely expensive, not only in regards to actual money, but in regards to the massive amount of time it takes to build a update [/quote] This is funny, I believe this is called the price of doing business. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Achronos otherwise we'd never be able to make any new games. Such is life. [/quote] Life in the Bungie world perhaps...there are plenty of software companies that listen to their customers complaints and fix their mistakes with multiple patches. Lets hope Halo 3 is perfect, cause if there are any bugs Bungie will be far too busy working on their next "secret project" to give it any attention. And dont even think about complaing about it cause... [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Achronos Such is life [/quote] You read that right here first

In all honesty, the only people that will get banned for this are the bad players who play with other bad players. You wont find a party w/ competitive level players and bad players. The competitive level players will use the combos to stay ahead of the competition. They will not leave feedback on each other, and the bad people who will leave feedback will never get into a party w/ them anyway. Again, declaring this cheating is pointless. MM continues to turn to -blam!-. [Edited on 6/8/2006]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] TezzA Legendary BXR and all other combos are not cheating. The superbounce is not cheating, according to Bungie it's unsportmanship to do it, but because it's a glitch in a map and anybody can do it, it's no way a cheat. [/quote] Actually, Bungie announced that exploiting any glitch in Halo 2 over Xbox Live is considered cheating. However, Bungie will not automatically ban people who use these glitches from Xbox Live. They do, however, encourage people to leave cheating feedback on players who use these glitches. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Smac_Weasel Super Jumpin/Bouncing isnt cheating! Why do people think it is? Bungie put them in there as secrets that can be exploited... Although it is sort of bad sportsmanship to super-jump on top of Burial Mounds with a Sniper Rifle... BUT ITS NOT CHEATING![/quote] Bungie didn't put these glitches into Halo 2 as a secret. These are unintended glitches that appeared in the game. If Bungie wanted players to exploit these glitches, then it doesn't seem logical to me for them to encourage players to leave cheating feedback on players who exploit any glitch in the game.

Essentially, yes.

isnt a BXR just punching someone then shootin them in the head

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Sketto It applies anywhere except for LAN or tournaments.[/quote] >.> [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Ninja 0n Fire Don't call them "glitches" - that's just a candy coated term and does not accurately describe what they are. They're bugs that alter the intended functionality of the weapons and gameplay. What you do in tournaments on LAN is between you and your tournament organization, [u]but do not advocate the exploitation of bugs being used [b]in our matchmaking service.[/b][/u] Whether it's superbouncing or interrupting weapon animations, just because we don't personally ban you for it doesn't mean it isn't cheating and extremely poor sportsmanship. We only issue suspensions for modified content and network manipulation, Xbox Live administrates all other aspects of cheating or social issues. When I see someone superbounce or use weapon exploits, I leave cheating feedback, I suggest you do as well.[/quote] Read where I've underlined and bolded. That's what I'm talking about.

It applies anywhere except for LAN or tournaments.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Smac_Weasel Super Jumpin/Bouncing isnt cheating! Why do people think it is? Bungie put them in there as secrets that can be exploited... Although it is sort of bad sportsmanship to super-jump on top of Burial Mounds with a Sniper Rifle... BUT ITS NOT CHEATING![/quote] You're so misinformed. [quote][b]Posted by[/b]: Ninja 0n Fire Don't call them "glitches" - that's just a candy coated term and does not accurately describe what they are. They're bugs that alter the intended functionality of the weapons and gameplay. What you do in tournaments on LAN is between you and your tournament organization, but do not advocate the exploitation of bugs being used in our matchmaking service. Whether it's superbouncing or interrupting weapon animations, just because we don't personally ban you for it doesn't mean it isn't cheating and extremely poor sportsmanship. We only issue suspensions for modified content and network manipulation, Xbox Live administrates all other aspects of cheating or social issues. When I see someone superbounce or use weapon exploits, I leave cheating feedback, I suggest you do as well.[/quote] Take a read. [u]It only applies to MatchMaking[/u] but it's still relevant.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Smac_Weasel Super Jumpin/Bouncing isnt cheating! Why do people think it is? Bungie put them in there as secrets that can be exploited... Although it is sort of bad sportsmanship to super-jump on top of Burial Mounds with a Sniper Rifle... BUT ITS NOT CHEATING![/quote] yes it is just get over it and stop trying to justify it. you lost.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Smac_Weasel Super Jumpin/Bouncing isnt cheating! Why do people think it is? Bungie put them in there as secrets that can be exploited... Although it is sort of bad sportsmanship to super-jump on top of Burial Mounds with a Sniper Rifle... BUT ITS NOT CHEATING![/quote] Damn boy, you're about as sharp as a bowling ball. I can't believe that you think Bungie "put them there" LMAO on purpose so that we could find them and 'exploit' them. LMAO. What a... LMAO, I won't say it, I just won't. LMAO ... damn idiot.

Super Jumpin/Bouncing isnt cheating! Why do people think it is? Bungie put them in there as secrets that can be exploited... Although it is sort of bad sportsmanship to super-jump on top of Burial Mounds with a Sniper Rifle... BUT ITS NOT CHEATING!

Well, nobody calls Bungie for that reason simply because Bungie doesn't address the issue in that manner. If you'd like to try though, go right ahead. You wouldn't make it past the receptionist. On another note, customs or not, using the button combos runs the risk of being reported. Face it, it's a bug, a glitch, a screw up in the game dynamics. Using this to gain an upper hand is exploitation, plain and simple. These button combos aren't meant to be there, some geek looking for an upper hand, an advantage found them, used them to kill more people than he had before and thus the trend started. If the damn combo didn't improve your kill rate it wouldn't have caught on. People wouldn't bother with it. The game is supposed to played on equal ground. No player is stronger than the next in anything other than skill and weapon selection. That's the way the game was and is supposed to be played. Integrating all these "aftermarket" combo's wasn't and isn't part of the deal with Xbox LIVE. You guys have made your own rules and are now trying to force your ideals on LIVE, Bungie and the community at large.

What happens if people start coming into my custom game and leave feedback on me for bxring? I rarely use bxr, but I BXB whenever i get the opportunity because of habit. I shouldnt be persecuted for a random tard that is frustrated coming into my custom game and leaving feedback. The dissapointing part is that now that bungie has posted that it is cheating, people will go balistic(sp?) with feedback. If a 12 year old gets pissed in matchmaking because he got beat down by the host, hes going to leave cheating feedback. Also, what does bungie do when a crazy customer calls and complains that they have been banned for Illegitimate reasons? just a thought i guess.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] TezzA Legendary BXR and all other combos are not cheating. The superbounce is not cheating, according to Bungie it's unsportmanship to do it, but because it's a glitch in a map and anybody can do it, it's no way a cheat. [/quote] Yes it is. You should really read the whole thread before posting. This was on page 15. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Achronos Here are the facts - these aren't "opinions", or whatever word you are using to avoid what you don't want to hear. 1. [b]Any use of a glitch/bug in a game to acquire an advantage is cheating on Xbox Live.[/b] This includes but is not limited to superbouncing, flag through the wall tricks, leaving the map boundaries, triggering an animation bug using a sequence of button presses (BXR, etc.) 2. [b]Anytime you see someone cheating, you should leave feedback on them, but it is up to you whether to do so.[/b] You define whether an action is cheating - you can define the above actions as normal, or be hardcore and define all of them as cheating. Since you're the one reporting the cheater, you get to be the ultimate arbiter of if cheating is occuring. This is a very obvious thing to say, but most people don't understand this. 3. [b]Different organizations have different rules.[/b] When you're on Xbox Live, you have to deal with our rules (which are in point 1 and 2). This means that anybody who is bringing up "what MLG does" needs to pull their head out of their ass and look around. Are we talking about an MLG tournament? Is this the MLG web site? No! That means that we're talking about Bungie rules for playing on Xbox Live. MLG is free to define whatever rules they want, and in their rules, button combos are part of the game. Super jumping (I believe) is not. But as what they do is off topic to this discussion, you need to stop talking about it like it matters to what happens on Xbox Live, because it doesn't. [/quote]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] POCALLIK [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Strunk Aww hell, he does say that. Crap. Now I have to go back and rethink my argument. Good point Freaky. Dammit.... LOL BBL with a better stance.[/quote] What's funny about this is that I have told you this very same thing in countless superbouncing threads. Glad to know you finally see the light.[/quote] I know Pocallik, my bad. What can I say, it's not because I'm not willing to see things in a different light it's just that I take a good amount of convincing.

BXR and all other combos are not cheating. The superbounce is not cheating, according to Bungie it's unsportmanship to do it, but because it's a glitch in a map and anybody can do it, it's no way a cheat.

I'm glad that Bungie removed the sword / sniper glitch where you can fly across the map but the little glitches like BXB, double shot, BXR etc were unchanged. Why? Risk / Reward systems. What I mean by this is that the double shot (for example) has the ability to kill the enemy quicker than normal. Thats the reward part. The risk is that I will mess up the buttons + when I am supposedly doing the third + fourth shots, I just fire the third then start reloading. Another problem is that during these button presses you are unable to aim so if your opponent is moving behind cover or jumping/strafing away, they will be much more difficult to hit. To be honest I can't double shot to save my life (pun intended) + can't really be bothered to put the time in to learn it. At the last last lan party I held I did use the double melee + BXR on some of my friends but only the ones who play regular on live, the newer players I would only use needler, smg, magnum or plasma rifle so they wouldn't get too frustrated at the skill gap. After a game or two I showed everyone what I was doing + pretty soon I ended up getting beaten to death (by my own brother) with a melee combo. As someone else else mentioned these button combos can also help people playing off host on xbox live + most of the time is the only way to try to compete (oh, for a relatively level playing field). I hope Bungie considers putting at least a double melee + quick reload in H3 but following a risk/reward system again. I think gears of war is including a similar quick reload where if you mess up, your gun jams for a second ot two. I still have fond memories of playing mario kart on the Snes, where at the beginning of the race if you did it right you got the turbo start, if you did it wrong however you stall the car + end up starting off much slower than if you hadn't attempted it. Little things like this (+ attention to detail) is why Nintendo will always be one of the best ever game creators in my mind. Hopefully this next game will raise the bar further than any previous attempt + will be regarded as the finest 1v1, 2v2, 4v4, 16v16 etc etc shooter that has ever been released. (fingers crossed)

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] SJC If Bungie considers it cheating, then feedback will be left on those who use it in MM in an act of spite. It is unfortunate that it is so looked down upon by its creators. But it is what it is, and what it is, is an added depth the game. So... Play Customs. [u]And to anyone who leaves feedback on people for using it in customs[/u] (based on the lack of skill required to do such a think I doubt you'd play in any customs w/ me) WOW.[/quote] That's my main peeve. If people weren't making pathetic threats to attempt to get us banned for playing the one thing we like in Custom Games, I wouldn't mind. Fine, we'll keep out of MatchMaking, but don't come into our games whining when you don't agree with what MLG says are legitimate tactics.

Edit: Oh forget it. [Edited on 6/7/2006]

is there an Official place that says there is a cancel button? i could be wrong.

well when i play my team is usually in some kind of formation therfore avoiding that kind of situation. ive never been booted for slicing my own player i think ive only done that once. i still dont think its a big enough problem to include a cancel button for though

if i'm about to lunge and a teammate kill that person w/ a melee then yes you can your teammates is now standing where the enemy was, i've been booted for it like 3-4 times for it trust me, i don't use the "cancel button" and there is where i lunge in to a teammate killing them [Edited on 6/7/2006]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] hoffasgrave i'm sure they meant it to stop the sword lunge from killing a teammate, other then that why would you cancel it? to change the intended use.....cheating, see so smiple.[/quote] you cant lunge at a teammate. the cursur must be red for you to lunge... it turns green when u look at a teammate. [Edited on 6/7/2006]