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9/29/2021 5:10:14 PM
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Good. The character is hated by a majority of players that hated uldren sov was revived and renamed the crow.
It’s stupid and lazy writing.
The guardian shouldn’t just magically forget what he did and accept that he g at to live anyways.
Same goes for many of the characters in the world of destiny.
It would be one thing if he was revived years later down the line and possibly the guardian or other characters were killed off.
But we have data of uldren sov. we have characters that remember what he did. We play as the guy or girl of killed him to begin with. The queen knows who her brother is. Petra remembers who he is and what he did to there people. The list goes on and on.
Kill the character again. Bungie stop being lazy and make a new character or put an old character in as hunter vanguard. An be down with it.
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Edited by LikwiD_SmOkE22: 10/2/2021 4:51:49 PMCrow and uldren only have one thing in common. The vessel they shared. Fk Uldren. Long live the Crow. Also a redemption arc for a formally hated character is by far one of the hardest things for writers to do. Far from lazy.
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What majority? I have seen more people praise Crow as a character than hating him.
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If our guardian regained the memories of our past life, would we suddenly stop being the guardian we are now and revert to who we were or would it make no difference? A guardian is reborn and their memories erased so that they may be reborn anew. There’s no point in holding Crow responsible for Uldren’s actions. Mara still grieves the loss of her brother because he’s gone. We killed him.
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Even though he’s not gone he was brought back in a world where everyone knows who he is what he has done and having so much data on him that it’s impossible to forget what he has done. Also I don’t know if you were being serious or not with that idea. But the guardian is a 100% blank slate. No past to remember. Being in a new world with no ties to anyone or anything when being resurrected. Trying to bring a real life situation into. Is that yea if my body was brought back I hope he would eventually remember who he is and see his life is better now but bring over some of my insane in the membrane mannerism and so on to make his world and life a bit better. But that’s all hypothetical at best. Highly doubt my soul would be put back into my body. But either which way uldren does not get a free pass because he can’t remember who he is. Everyone else does. This is literally a few months to a year of he killed cayde 6,committed genocide on his own race,released multiple big bads on to the universe,nearly released a wish granting corrupted dragon on to the universe,and who knows what else. People remember that. An say it with me. WILL NOT MAGICALLY FORGET WHAT HE DID! Not everyone is as forgiving as vuvuzala and ikora are. I’m sure Amanda holiday has some anger to work out about it. Petra probably wants to ice him again. Mara wants to bring her brother back to her side. An I’m sure many other guardians and citizens of the last city probably want him gone. I’m done with this. He doesn’t get a free pass. Lore doesn’t absolve him of his crimes. Bungies laziness and lazy writing doesn’t excuse why they didn’t make a brand new character instead of rehashing a revised character incarnation. Logic beats out any argument over this topic. It can’t be defended cause that’s not how it should work or be.
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It’s the absolute antithesis of lazy writing! Who cares about a new character? The tragic irony of our new friend being the amnesiac murderer of our old friend is excellent writing and I think if you ask most people they would agree that the writing in the last few seasons has been some of the best in the history of the game. Bungie managed to make us love a character that shared a face with a character we hated only for us to have to watch as he is reminded of who he once was. Go hang out with Shaw Han since you love new characters so much.
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They did create a new character. They made Crow. He's a completely different person. Not the same that killed Cayde.
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You do know that Crow lost his memory right? That he literally isn’t the same person? Uldren died.
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You do know it’s uldren who lost his memory right. He was brought back and using lore of he doesn’t remember who he is doesn’t absolve him of what he did. The idea stim from bungie keeping uldren around over cayde cause of Nolan leaving to go do a tv show. The crow is literally destiny 1 original story idea for uldren. Only those who know the original story of destiny knows this about the character. It’s doesn’t matter how it tries to be spun. Uldren is the crow. There are no excuse that can be used. Bring back uldren and just renaming him doesn’t give him a free pass on what has been done. Period end of argument or discussion.
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"doesn't absolve him of what he did" And why not?
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You know, just because we knew who he was before he died doesnt make him an exception to the rule. Saying he is uldren, when the game, the characters and the story went out of their way to tell you that this isnt the case is really dumb. We remembering what he did as uldren changes jack sh*t, because we dont apply the sins of the old you in the new you. Simple as that.
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Edited by Astartes Marine: 9/29/2021 5:29:15 PM"Majority" But never a source to back such a claim. I personally like him. I was satisfied putting a bullet in Uldren, and that guy's story ended right then and there. Guardians are not their previous lives. Would you still respect Saint 14 if it turned out he was a Menge1e (it's a name Bungie, cool it with the censor) of his time? How would you feel of our Guardian if it turned out we were a major player in causing the Collapse? If you want to hold people accountable for crimes from their previous lives, why not go just a bit further? We have two of the infamous Warlords in or around the Tower right now. Both Shaxx and Saladin did terrible things early in their lives as Guardians, including butchering civilians, would you put them to the torch as well? Uldren's dead, let it go. Cayde ain't coming back, let that go too. Got bigger things to worry about than holding onto grudges.
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Saladin didn’t do anything terrible during his early years. I thought he fought against the warlords and the fallen who were massacring civilians/refugees.
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He was a Warlord himself, got better later. [url=https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/survivors-epitaph?highlight=Survivor%27s+epitaph+]Lore page from Survivor's Epitaph hand cannon[/url]
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Edited by PhNx Hellfire: 9/30/2021 9:40:54 PM[quote]Uldren's dead, let it go.[/quote] Uldren and his memories are back in the forefront. He isn't dead now. You know why that is? Because of his dialogue at us, the way he questions why guardians have been shooting him on sight, and the powderkeg of a situation being that he has been working under Savathun is like saying that even though you were working for a natural enemy of us from the time he was "rescued" by us and most likely studied by the natural enemy is not enough to say we should either double down on him being uldren in sheep clothing or say Crow is our friend and try and salvage him from Savathun. But just remember who he did all that for. He thought it was Mara. He thought he was helping his people while the corsairs and barons were killing each other. He THOUGHT that killing Cayde was the RIGHT course of action and allowed the guardian ghost killer bullet to be used. Now imagine... that Saint-14... and Saladin... are deserving of calling that man ally after EVERYTHING he did and disrespected them AFTER being brought back. He is Uldren Sov in all but his memories until Tuesday. Not a savor. Simply a guardian who has been a spy by her direction the entire time while she gained the Hidden network information through Osiris. This entire season is a ruse to get you to believe Crow is an ally. Uldren is in there and he will appear when it is time for Savathun to be done with him. The vanguard is NOW in a position to be completely wiped out if we don't resolve this and quickly.
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3 weeks ago with uldren sov vs crow post about why Petra and a few others are being hateful or depose uldren being alive again. With a minority of players trying to defend lore and other things to make the crow innocent of past killings and genocide. While a majority of players hate uldren sov can see past lore and use logic of why the lore and other things doesn’t absolve him of his crimes.
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There's nothing to absolve Crow OF though. Uldren is dead, we shot him, he got a bullet through the cranium and ceased to be. The Traveller resurrected him, now he's a Guardian. Crow is not Uldren, just as Cayde wasn't one of Clovis' goons that kidnapped a child and may or may not have murdered them/force converted them into an EXO (Europa penguin lore).
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Just like the argument o had when someone tried to bring banshee and elsie into. Unless it has been established through in game dialogue that there is an issue or someone else is aware of who is what or what yet did then it doesn’t matter. The guardian knows the crow is uldren sov. Petra knows uldren sov was brought back and still hates him for what he did. The queen knows who her brother is and knows he’s guardian now. We the player know that the crow is uldren sov. It’s lazy writing and pure laziness to try and make uldren sov the crow and use lore as a crutch for his amnesia and trying to cram it down the players throat about the character.
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It's lazy writing to try and redeem a character that everyone hates? Isn't that the path of most resistance as opposed to the least? A lot of people took issue with bungie moving on to completely different plots and characters, so now they bring characters back to make the world feel alive and that our actions have consequences. Also, how do you know that most players hate Crow? How many people have you seen hate him? How many people have you seen love him? You can't just say everyone hates him. Me personally, I love Crow as a character. I can't wait to see how he overcomes this and grows in upcoming seasons. I would personally hand him the Ace of Spades and support him as the Hunter Vanguard. You claim that Crows actions are irredeemable, but he didn't do those things. I know I said that they brought an old character back, but Crow is not Uldren Sov. He woke up as a blank slate. No memory of who he was, how he was raised, anything. How could he be the same as Uldren? He said that he was tired of people hating him for something he didn't do, because he didn't do those things. Sure, he may have his memories back now, but I'm sure that he'll be able to remain the new, better person he was resurrected as and make Uldren Sov nothing but a memory.
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Edited by Astartes Marine: 9/29/2021 7:12:02 PMYour argument seems to boil down to, you don't like it. I don't know what to tell you. I don't care what Crow did pre-bullet in skull, I just don't care, and I definitely give no ****s about what Petra thinks. You do you though.
