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6/7/2010 3:07:28 AM
307
Halo Reach FAILS September 14, 2010
If a game is made for players whom are 17+, why does Reach feel like it was designed for 10 year olds with ADD?
Honestly, anyone can pick up this game and do reasonably well. It seems as Bungie is catering to a much younger audience that doesn't have the attention span to learn to play a game well. From in-game randomness such as bloom, over-powered grenades, armor abilities, ect., Halo Reach is simply dumbed down.
Bungie, you may as well slap an E rating on this one, because your average fifth grader who just picked up the game can compete with dedicated players.
Let's take me for an example:
I was able to get on the early release of the beta (Lol), but I was only able to put a reasonable amount of time into the game on Friday (1 day after the beta was released). Luckily, I searched with some extremely talented Halo 3 players whom had spent all day and night playing. Early on while searching, we matched Halo 3 professionals, Enable and Flamesword.
In Halo 3, they could have absolutely handed my ass to me. In Reach however, even though they had more than double my playtime, I only went -5, and -4. Honestly, if Reach wasn't catered to 10 year olds with ADD, I would have gone double digit negative. They should have wiped the floor with me, but we tied them once, and only lost by a small margin in the second game.
Halo has always been an 18+ game. Sure there are groups like Bungle trying to dumb down the game to the point that a retarded chimp could have an orgasm playing it, but default gameplay is simply too basic.
With the skill gap nearly gone, I don't know where to turn. I'm sure I'll get some trolling replies along the lines of "Don't buy it, you won't be missed," but if Reach stays this dumbed down I don't know if I'll purchase it. Default gameplay shouldn't be this basic, and hopefully Bungie will at least allow MLG a way to fix this currently broken game.
Bungie, we don't want a game made for the 10 year olds with ADD, this is Halo. They have CoD. I understand this is a business, but simply put, you're ruining your integrity as a gaming developer. I feel like Reach will be a game that nobody will play more than a year, simply because of how basic the gameplay is. And those people that you're catering to, they bought Halo 3. Then, when the next shiny new title came out, they bought that too. I'm sure Reach will break every sales record evar, but that doesn't make it a good game.
I can't imagine what this is like for the players who have been around since CE. I played a little Halo 2, and spent way too many hours on Halo 3, but this series is getting continually dumbed down.
Regardless, in the slim chance an employee stops what they are doing to read this, good luck with your future projects.
Thanks for your time.
Edit 1: [url=http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/GameStats.aspx?gameid=59366&player=Cosssta]Game Used as Evidence in OP[/url]
[url=http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/GameStats.aspx?gameid=59979&player=Cosssta]Game 2[/url]
[Edited on 06.06.2010 7:50 PM PDT]
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Sparta4Ever Face it, you suck at Reach[/quote] >implying there is a large skill gap in Reach
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Face it, you suck at Reach
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] iTz Mr Quincy [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] xParanoiaa [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] iTz Mr Quincy [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] xParanoiaa [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Dendor Vos I think that your argument about the halo 3 pros doesn't make any sense at all. Just because they can decimate you in Halo 3 doesn't mean that their skill should correlate in Reach. They know every single map, chokepoint, and angle in Halo 3. They aren't going to do good in Reach because they don't know the game yet, which is a good thing, we don't need Reach to be a copy of Halo 3. I like the fact that there are changes, variables like armor abilities and bloom make the game less predictable, which, in a sense, takes more skill. Also do you even know what ADD is? ADD doesn't have anything to do with playing video games, it's like saying that an obese 10 year old could play this game because it's so easy.[/quote] Good Halo CE players were good at Halo 2. Good Halo 2 players were good at Halo 3. Good Halo 3 players can't be consistent in Reach because there are too many random elements thrown in. [quote]variables like armor abilities and bloom make the game less predictable, which, in a sense, takes more skill.[/quote] Randomness =/= skill.[/quote] I'm pretty sure that the pros in H:3 will be pro in H:R. I just don't think that a couple hundred games in the beta is enough to compare to the thousands upon thousands of games they've played in the other 3 games.[/quote] There were only two maps in the beta. You can only acquire so much data from this. After a while, people knew which strategies worked the best, but the randomness factor was still prevelant.[/quote] Not necessarily. After your first two days, did you know [b]the best possible strategy[/b] to win a certain game or gametype? Not to mention a lot of mechanics in Reach are fundamentally different than the previous games, making it harder to adapt to from H:3. Also, bloom was in the past three games, and was even on the BR. You might recognize it in the form of BR spread, since it counted each individual bullet to be one shot, thus increasing the bloom size. There's a reason why the first always shot straight and true. It was as bad in the other games as it is in Reach.[/quote] I couldn't be bothered to play it for more than a few hours. Bloom was NOT in the previous games. There is a difference between the BR spread and the bullets slightly altering direction, and the inevitable expansion of the reticule.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] xParanoiaa [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] iTz Mr Quincy [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] xParanoiaa [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Dendor Vos I think that your argument about the halo 3 pros doesn't make any sense at all. Just because they can decimate you in Halo 3 doesn't mean that their skill should correlate in Reach. They know every single map, chokepoint, and angle in Halo 3. They aren't going to do good in Reach because they don't know the game yet, which is a good thing, we don't need Reach to be a copy of Halo 3. I like the fact that there are changes, variables like armor abilities and bloom make the game less predictable, which, in a sense, takes more skill. Also do you even know what ADD is? ADD doesn't have anything to do with playing video games, it's like saying that an obese 10 year old could play this game because it's so easy.[/quote] Good Halo CE players were good at Halo 2. Good Halo 2 players were good at Halo 3. Good Halo 3 players can't be consistent in Reach because there are too many random elements thrown in. [quote]variables like armor abilities and bloom make the game less predictable, which, in a sense, takes more skill.[/quote] Randomness =/= skill.[/quote] I'm pretty sure that the pros in H:3 will be pro in H:R. I just don't think that a couple hundred games in the beta is enough to compare to the thousands upon thousands of games they've played in the other 3 games.[/quote] There were only two maps in the beta. You can only acquire so much data from this. After a while, people knew which strategies worked the best, but the randomness factor was still prevelant.[/quote] Not necessarily. After your first two days, did you know [b]the best possible strategy[/b] to win a certain game or gametype? Not to mention a lot of mechanics in Reach are fundamentally different than the previous games, making it harder to adapt to from H:3. Also, bloom was in the past three games, and was even on the BR. You might recognize it in the form of BR spread, since it counted each individual bullet to be one shot, thus increasing the bloom size. There's a reason why the first always shot straight and true. It was as bad in the other games as it is in Reach.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Gruntsrule325 [url=http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1261442/troll.swf]relevant[/url][/quote]Lol I'm saving that link. I thought Halo 3 was rated M? M in America = 17+ dude
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] xParanoiaa [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Dendor Vos I think that your argument about the halo 3 pros doesn't make any sense at all. Just because they can decimate you in Halo 3 doesn't mean that their skill should correlate in Reach. They know every single map, chokepoint, and angle in Halo 3. They aren't going to do good in Reach because they don't know the game yet, which is a good thing, we don't need Reach to be a copy of Halo 3. I like the fact that there are changes, variables like armor abilities and bloom make the game less predictable, which, in a sense, takes more skill. Also do you even know what ADD is? ADD doesn't have anything to do with playing video games, it's like saying that an obese 10 year old could play this game because it's so easy.[/quote] Good Halo CE players were good at Halo 2. Good Halo 2 players were good at Halo 3. Good Halo 3 players can't be consistent in Reach because there are too many random elements thrown in. [quote]variables like armor abilities and bloom make the game less predictable, which, in a sense, takes more skill.[/quote] Randomness =/= skill.[/quote] While I'll agree AAs can be random, the ability to adapt and learn how to beat these is considered skillful IMO.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] iTz Mr Quincy [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] xParanoiaa [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Dendor Vos I think that your argument about the halo 3 pros doesn't make any sense at all. Just because they can decimate you in Halo 3 doesn't mean that their skill should correlate in Reach. They know every single map, chokepoint, and angle in Halo 3. They aren't going to do good in Reach because they don't know the game yet, which is a good thing, we don't need Reach to be a copy of Halo 3. I like the fact that there are changes, variables like armor abilities and bloom make the game less predictable, which, in a sense, takes more skill. Also do you even know what ADD is? ADD doesn't have anything to do with playing video games, it's like saying that an obese 10 year old could play this game because it's so easy.[/quote] Good Halo CE players were good at Halo 2. Good Halo 2 players were good at Halo 3. Good Halo 3 players can't be consistent in Reach because there are too many random elements thrown in. [quote]variables like armor abilities and bloom make the game less predictable, which, in a sense, takes more skill.[/quote] Randomness =/= skill.[/quote] I'm pretty sure that the pros in H:3 will be pro in H:R. I just don't think that a couple hundred games in the beta is enough to compare to the thousands upon thousands of games they've played in the other 3 games.[/quote] There were only two maps in the beta. You can only acquire so much data from this. After a while, people knew which strategies worked the best, but the randomness factor was still prevelant.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] xParanoiaa [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Dendor Vos I think that your argument about the halo 3 pros doesn't make any sense at all. Just because they can decimate you in Halo 3 doesn't mean that their skill should correlate in Reach. They know every single map, chokepoint, and angle in Halo 3. They aren't going to do good in Reach because they don't know the game yet, which is a good thing, we don't need Reach to be a copy of Halo 3. I like the fact that there are changes, variables like armor abilities and bloom make the game less predictable, which, in a sense, takes more skill. Also do you even know what ADD is? ADD doesn't have anything to do with playing video games, it's like saying that an obese 10 year old could play this game because it's so easy.[/quote] Good Halo CE players were good at Halo 2. Good Halo 2 players were good at Halo 3. Good Halo 3 players can't be consistent in Reach because there are too many random elements thrown in. [quote]variables like armor abilities and bloom make the game less predictable, which, in a sense, takes more skill.[/quote] Randomness =/= skill.[/quote] I'm pretty sure that the pros in H:3 will be pro in H:R. I just don't think that a couple hundred games in the beta is enough to compare to the thousands upon thousands of games they've played in the other 3 games.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Dendor Vos I think that your argument about the halo 3 pros doesn't make any sense at all. Just because they can decimate you in Halo 3 doesn't mean that their skill should correlate in Reach. They know every single map, chokepoint, and angle in Halo 3. They aren't going to do good in Reach because they don't know the game yet, which is a good thing, we don't need Reach to be a copy of Halo 3. I like the fact that there are changes, variables like armor abilities and bloom make the game less predictable, which, in a sense, takes more skill. Also do you even know what ADD is? ADD doesn't have anything to do with playing video games, it's like saying that an obese 10 year old could play this game because it's so easy.[/quote] Good Halo CE players were good at Halo 2. Good Halo 2 players were good at Halo 3. Good Halo 3 players can't be consistent in Reach because there are too many random elements thrown in. [quote]variables like armor abilities and bloom make the game less predictable, which, in a sense, takes more skill.[/quote] Randomness =/= skill.
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[quote]Lets not forget that people are getting used to the new maps weapons, oh and the fact that means everyone starts at square one that goes from generals to new recruits.[/quote] Square one? I don't think so. If you compared how quickly a pro football would adapt to playing rugby and how quickly a fat sofa lounger would adapt to playing rugby, I think you would see noticeable differences. There are certain universal skills that apply, and some players who have certain mindsets can pick up the required skills faster than other players. And that's not even including just having faster reflexes or hand eye coordination.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Defense [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] stevo RaZoR and if you are getting pwned by 5 graders who just picked up the game... you just simply suck [/quote] Don't go there. In Halo 3, my team and I would win 50-0 most games when we played on fresh accounts. In Reach, it's like 50-30, because of how dumbed down the game is.[/quote] Seriously? People were only playing the beta for a few weeks. New people joining in on the action every day. The true skill wasn't "complete" because it hasn't been played for that long. Come Fall, it will even out more and match you up against other players of a lesser "skill" level because in the beta there were plenty of new people, some better than others.
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I think that your argument about the halo 3 pros doesn't make any sense at all. Just because they can decimate you in Halo 3 doesn't mean that their skill should correlate in Reach. They know every single map, chokepoint, and angle in Halo 3. They aren't going to do good in Reach because they don't know the game yet, which is a good thing, we don't need Reach to be a copy of Halo 3. I like the fact that there are changes, variables like armor abilities and bloom make the game less predictable, which, in a sense, takes more skill. Also do you even know what ADD is? ADD doesn't have anything to do with playing video games, it's like saying that an obese 10 year old could play this game because it's so easy.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Defense [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] stevo RaZoR and if you are getting pwned by 5 graders who just picked up the game... you just simply suck [/quote] Don't go there. In Halo 3, my team and I would win 50-0 most games when we played on fresh accounts. In Reach, it's like 50-30, because of how dumbed down the game is.[/quote] Lets not forget that people are getting used to the new maps weapons, oh and the fact that means everyone starts at square one that goes from generals to new recruits. [Edited on 06.06.2010 9:15 PM PDT]
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#1 - ratings mean nothing, if people want the game they will buy it or ask someone to buy it for them - end story. #2 - yes, reach is simple - but then an easy game can be fun when you want easy wins. Play more strategic games when you want a challenge, keep reach for pure chill times. #3 - bungies last shot at the brand, they have to make a game that appeals to the widest base ... that way they get more $$ in the bank for the next game were they can develop something fresh which does have to follow the 'halo' world. Rent it or play a friends copy ... then make the call. There are a lot of new releases comming out at the same time so keep your $$ for something you and your friends find fun.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Defense [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] stevo RaZoR and if you are getting pwned by 5 graders who just picked up the game... you just simply suck [/quote] Don't go there. In Halo 3, my team and I would win 50-0 most games when we played on fresh accounts. In Reach, it's like 50-30, because of how dumbed down the game is.[/quote] Ummm thats because they are different games. Just because you are good at one, does not mean you will be good at another. And second accounting? just wow. [Edited on 06.06.2010 9:11 PM PDT]
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] xParanoiaa [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] DeftestAdam366 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] xParanoiaa [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] DeftestAdam366 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] xParanoiaa It's a octagonal (who would have thought) map that many players generally use to warm up. Players have BRs and Snipers and respawns are instant.[/quote] Gee cause i didn't know what an octagon was /sarcasm I thought you meant a different game and it seems you only like two weapons over all from this. Let me guess you dislike bloom as its to "random"[/quote] I was simply describing the map. I thought you knew it was at least Halo-related, so if I told you it was an octagonal map you would be able to picture it better. Sorry for trying to help. I don't "like" any weapon over another. I do know which situations call for which weapons though. Correct.[/quote] Well it can be its meant to discourage button mashing and the beta was used to get the number so when the retail comes in I bet kids will think twice before the mash RT 20 times.Let alone there was a glitch in the hitbox so that also didn't help in getting headshots.[/quote] Funny thing is bloom actually promoted button mashing. If each player just mashed the trigger at the maximum speed, and provided they aimed somewhere around the opponent's head, it would be a toss-up as to who killed the other. No one would want to wait out the bloom and time thier shots, because more often than not they'd get killed by someone mashing RT.[/quote] Wow really. As the bloom grew wider its reset time grew with its that's why your supposed to time your shots so it stays within a reasonable range and the reset was smaller as well.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] DeftestAdam366 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] xParanoiaa [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] DeftestAdam366 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] xParanoiaa It's a octagonal (who would have thought) map that many players generally use to warm up. Players have BRs and Snipers and respawns are instant.[/quote] Gee cause i didn't know what an octagon was /sarcasm I thought you meant a different game and it seems you only like two weapons over all from this. Let me guess you dislike bloom as its to "random"[/quote] I was simply describing the map. I thought you knew it was at least Halo-related, so if I told you it was an octagonal map you would be able to picture it better. Sorry for trying to help. I don't "like" any weapon over another. I do know which situations call for which weapons though. Correct.[/quote] Well it can be its meant to discourage button mashing and the beta was used to get the number so when the retail comes in I bet kids will think twice before the mash RT 20 times.Let alone there was a glitch in the hitbox so that also didn't help in getting headshots.[/quote] Funny thing is bloom actually promoted button mashing. If each player just mashed the trigger at the maximum speed, and provided they aimed somewhere around the opponent's head, it would be a toss-up as to who killed the other. No one would want to wait out the bloom and time thier shots, because more often than not they'd get killed by someone mashing RT.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Scottus4 [quote]I lied to myself for the first few hours and pretended I loved it. After 3 days of playing, I was sick of it.[/quote] I genuinely enjoyed Slayer Pro to an extent (saying to myself "This is a beta, so accept the faults that are there and enjoy the rest"), but after a couple days of playing anything else made me want to eat a bullet. Other than a few games here and there, I basically quit when the arena closed. But yeah I get your point about AR now. I agree that the AR is too easy to use for the pay off in certain situations, but I think that's by design - its supposed to help players who can't handle themselves at least compete with other players. Part of what made Halo so fun to play was that even if your friends never had played the game before, they could pick up the game and while they would still suck, they could kill people in certain situations. I don't know if any of my LAN parties would really be a success if people weren't able to come and go, try Halo out and have a good time... nobody enjoys getting 50-0'd, ever. [/quote] They should increase AR bloom by a ton like the max bloom it can get and increase the damage by a bit.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] xParanoiaa [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] DeftestAdam366 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] xParanoiaa It's a octagonal (who would have thought) map that many players generally use to warm up. Players have BRs and Snipers and respawns are instant.[/quote] Gee cause i didn't know what an octagon was /sarcasm I thought you meant a different game and it seems you only like two weapons over all from this. Let me guess you dislike bloom as its to "random"[/quote] I was simply describing the map. I thought you knew it was at least Halo-related, so if I told you it was an octagonal map you would be able to picture it better. Sorry for trying to help. I don't "like" any weapon over another. I do know which situations call for which weapons though. Correct.[/quote] Well it can be its meant to discourage button mashing and the beta was used to get the number so when the retail comes in I bet kids will think twice before the mash RT 20 times.Let alone there was a glitch in the hitbox so that also didn't help in getting headshots.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] HOJIN117 you only played 2 -blam!- games of halo reach. And you lost both. Woah i sense a huge rage quitter or some short tempered nerd. Like are you just frustrated that you can't aim now that they have the bloom? You haven't even played other gametypes, and i doubt you even used all the classes yet. Stop your -blam!-ing about the game, unless you actually had enough expierence to complain about it. And no, 2 games aren't enough.[/quote] Costa played A TON of Reach beta. He had an early code and then I pretty much saw him on the beta for its duration.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] DeftestAdam366 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] xParanoiaa It's a octagonal (who would have thought) map that many players generally use to warm up. Players have BRs and Snipers and respawns are instant.[/quote] Gee cause i didn't know what an octagon was /sarcasm I thought you meant a different game and it seems you only like two weapons over all from this. Let me guess you dislike bloom as its to "random"[/quote] I was simply describing the map. I thought you knew it was at least Halo-related, so if I told you it was an octagonal map you would be able to picture it better. Sorry for trying to help. I don't "like" any weapon over another. I do know which situations call for which weapons though. Correct. [Edited on 06.06.2010 8:54 PM PDT]
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Defense Let's take me for an example: I was able to get on the early release of the beta (Lol), but I was only able to put a reasonable amount of time into the game on Friday (1 day after the beta was released). Luckily, I searched with some extremely talented Halo 3 players whom had spent all day and night playing. Early on while searching, we matched Halo 3 professionals, Enable and Flamesword. In Halo 3, they could have absolutely handed my ass to me. In Reach however, even though they had more than double my playtime, I only went -5, and -4. Honestly, if Reach wasn't catered to 10 year olds with ADD, I would have gone double digit negative. They should have wiped the floor with me, but we tied them once, and only lost by a small margin in the second game. [/quote]Ever take into consideration that they're not at L33T as you thought, and that they were expecting to use the DMR as the all dominating BR?
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] xParanoiaa It's a octagonal (who would have thought) map that many players generally use to warm up. Players have BRs and Snipers and respawns are instant.[/quote] Gee cause i didn't know what an octagon was /sarcasm I thought you meant a different game and it seems you only like two weapons over all from this. Let me guess you dislike bloom as its to "random"
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Defense [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] DivinePistol You will buy it, it will be awsome and you will regret ever making this post. Change is enevitable, in video games as well as life. You will learn to cope with the changes and adjust to them until you feel comfortable with them. That is when you will regret making this thread.[/quote] I hope you're right, but I don't see it happening. I've been consistently let down by Bungie. Awesome is spelled with two "e"s fyi.[/quote] I know, i pressed the "E", but my keyboard is weird so i have to press down with alot of pressure for it to register on my monitor. Sorry about that if it bugged you... It takes me pretty long to type.
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Reach is great so fsr you need to get used to it or get out.
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you only played 2 -blam!- games of halo reach. And you lost both. Woah i sense a huge rage quitter or some short tempered nerd. Like are you just frustrated that you can't aim now that they have the bloom? You haven't even played other gametypes, and i doubt you even used all the classes yet. Stop your -blam!-ing about the game, unless you actually had enough expierence to complain about it. And no, 2 games aren't enough.
