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#Halo

4/24/2010 12:51:36 AM
735

The Return of the Spiker: My Argument for its Revival. Updated 2!

[quote][b]Warning: Thread contains Inductive Reasoning[/b] Commenting after reading this thread without understanding the nuances of [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inductive_reasoning]Inductive Reasoning[/url] may result in mass ridicule. [b]Warning: Original Poster sucks at writing succinctly [/b] For those of you who lack the stamina required to read well thought-out essays: you have been warned, I will make no compromises for your lack of focus.[/quote] [quote][b]New Information![/b] Scroll down to the 7th post to read about a recent discovery that strongly points to the Spiker's return in Reach! It's more or less indirectly confirmed now! [b]New Information![/b] Scroll down to the 7th post to see a picture from E3 where a Spiker can be spotted in the hands of a Brute. [b]New Information![/b] Scroll down to the 7th post to see the first Video Footage of the Spiker being used by the Player![/quote] [quote][/quote][b]Introduction[/b][quote][/quote] Today I am here to discuss the past, the present, and the future of the [url=http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?cid=12237]Type-25 Carbine[/url]. Adept at filling the air with swarms of low-velocity superheated spikes, the "Spiker" is the primary weapon of choice for Brute Infantry. It is dual-wieldable, unique, awesome, and happens to be my favorite weapon in Halo. Ever since that summer day in my AP Physics class where my class mates and I huddled around a single computer to watch the first Halo Reach Trailer with wonder and excitement in our eyes, I've been searching for signs of the Spiker in Reach. At the time of this writing, the Spiker has not been confirmed to be in or out of Reach by Bungie, and its inclusion or removal has been a fairly frequent topic in the Halo Reach Forum. Although I have posted in many of these threads, sharing different evidence, insights, and reasoning, I've yet to hone and sharpen my thoughts and unite them together into one masterpiece. But now, after nearly a month of brainstorming, drafting, and revising, I bring you my evidence for why I believe it is likely that the Spiker will return in Halo Reach. I've worked hard to step away from my emotions and fairly evaluate the probability of the Spiker returning in Reach with cold hard facts and intelligence. I've crafted this thread with several groups of people in mind. First, for the intellectuals of the forum. Please, examine my argument, attack it with everything you have, and try to break it. You did a very good job of this with my [url=http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=41989722]Spartan Laser Thread[/url]. Because you broke that argument completely, it helped me to understand why the Spartan Laser's return in Halo Reach wasn't as bad as I originally thought. Don't expect it to be so easy this time around however, my "hate" of the Spartan Laser is insignificant compared to my Love for the Spiker. Second, for the people who might have seen me on the forums, but just assumed that I am some sort of Spiker Fan Boy who believes that the Spiker will be in Reach because [i]"Bungie wouldn't dare mess with my favorite weapon."[/i] Please learn how horrifically wrong you are. I've put a lot of thought into this, and I won't have you writing me off until you hear the full story. There is a reason to why I say [i]"The Spiker is likely to return in Reach"[/i] with such confidence. Finally, to the people who blindly trust every word I say, I'd at least want to give you some background to why I came to this conclusion so that if you ever find yourself under attack for claiming that the Spiker will return in Reach, you will at least know how to go about defending yourself. [quote][/quote][i]"Why do you think the Spiker will be in Reach"[/i] you ask? This is a bit of a difficult question to answer, and I'm not sure exactly where I should start. As a writer, it's much easier for me to explain my theory to you by presenting the common arguments for why the Spiker won't be in Reach, then counter them one by one. I've compiled six major arguments today, and I am willing to add more should you people craft some new ones which challenge my conclusion. The original post is comprised of seven posts total, so I wish you luck with finishing it. [quote][/quote][quote][b]Argument 1)[/b] [i]Spikers are weapons used only by Brutes. I heard that there won't be any Brutes in Halo Reach, so it makes no sense for there to be Spikers in Halo Reach.[/i][/quote][quote][/quote] This argument commonly comes from people who haven't been following the development of this game closely. There is no crime in making an assumption like this when you don't have all the details available for you to digest, so allow me to quickly and kindly correct your misunderstanding. Brutes are in Reach. They have been indirectly confirmed twice by Bungie. The first time that they were confirmed was in the First Halo Reach Vidoc: [url=http://www.bungie.net/projects/reach/vidaudio.aspx?c=58&i=24782]Once More Unto The Breach[/url]. At about 4:33 into the video, you will clearly see an artist working on a new brute model for Halo Reach (the brute model is on the left screen, Brute concept art from Halo 3 is on the right screen). For those of you who are lazy and don't mind my funny red annotations, I have a [url=http://i868.photobucket.com/albums/ab249/Hylebosaiden/Bnet%20Image%20Resources/OMGBRUTES.jpg]screencap[/url] of this picture for your viewing pleasure. Why would they show footage in the vidoc of a character model that won't be in the final game? The second time that they were confirmed was in the [url=http://downloads.bungie.net/podcasts/Bungie_Podcast_30910.mp3]03/09/10 Bungie Podcast[/url]. The guest of this show was the Reach Audio Lead: Jay Weinland. At about 30 minutes into the podcast, the following exchange occurs: [quote] [b]29:58 Brian Jarrard:[/b] And then I guess you guys are also dealing with redefining a Grunt speaking a native dialog versus an Elite versus all of the Covenant. [b]Jay Weinland:[/b] Yup, it's a totally different take there I guess, totally different take, and we've come up with a way to actually write English words and then transmogrify them into an Alien Language which... [b]Brian Jarrard:[/b] Yeah, I heard that a real formal language was created, sort of melding together some other things that are out there and then you guys are like: "guess we'll apply some processing to the final recording to make..." [b]Jay Weinland:[/b] Yeah, apply some processing to make it sound more [b][u]Brutey[/b][/u], or more Elitey, or more Grunty. [b]Brian Jarrard:[/b] That's awesome. [b]Jay Weinland:[/b] So yeah, that's going to be good times, we've already recorded a couple of grunts, we're getting our Elites and [b][u]Brutes[/u][/b] here in Seattle. [/quote] Why would they need to record dialog for Brutes if they aren't going to be in the game? Now, some of you might not be entirely convinced. I've heard all sorts of justifications for why Brutes won't be in Reach despite the prior two bits of evidence. [i]"Brutes will be in cut scenes only and we won't ever fight them"[/i] or [i]"Bungie says that all details are subject to change, so they could easily come to their senses and removes Brutes from Reach before they ruin Campaign."[/i] To be blunt, these are feeble weak arguments which aren't likely to occur. I understand that some of you people may be nervous about reintroducing Brutes into Halo Reach when they didn't do so well in Halo 2 or Halo 3, but there are a variety of reasons why Brutes in Reach won't suck as much as in prior games. The important thing is that there are Brutes in the game, so we know that Spikers won't be taken out just because Brutes are absent. But Brutes have not been as consistent in their presentation throughout previous Halo games, which brings us to our next argument. [quote][/quote][b]Continued on Page 2[/b][quote][/quote] [Edited on 09.09.2010 5:46 PM PDT]
English
#Halo #Reach

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  • He knows the needler is supeior in heart.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] iRickles You say you like Spikers... but in Halo 3 you've used the Needler more than the Spiker. Someone's lying here![/quote] :O he has 160 kills with the spiker and 500 with the BR! He IS a lier!

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  • You say you like Spikers... but in Halo 3 you've used the Needler more than the Spiker. Someone's lying here!

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  • Just finished reading. That was a lot. I am impressed an i fully support you, and the spiker.

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  • Dude are you crazy? I love the Spiker! It was an All purpose weapon to me an with the combination with the Plasma Rifle it can actually kill faster than a ghost Also all those tweaks you said are very well done [Edited on 06.10.2010 4:38 AM PDT]

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] privet caboose Atleast you got your Spikers Hylebos, I didn't get my Blue Team. :([/quote] The announcement trailer indicated very strongly that a group of unknown Spartans called "Noble Team" would be the focus of [i]Halo: Reach[/i]. Disappointment is what you get for foolish assumptions.

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  • Well while this argument hasn't convinced me 100 percent only bungie confirming it or playing the retail game with it in would convince me 100 percent this boosted me from 30 percent to about 55 percent certain it will be in.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] privet caboose Low blow man....low blow. Hell, even Shishka added insult to injury. :( I will admit, I love duel wielding, but I always picked the SMG's over the spikers. But, in ODST I found myself using Spikers ALOT. If the Reach spikers feel powerful like the ODST spikers, I'll probably user them alot more. [/quote] Here's hoping the Spiker feels heavier, longer like an actual rifle, and the firing and "clagging" metallic sound of the weapon feels more badass. :)

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  • AMAZING this is the longest and most impressive thread i have EVER read. Really good research and sound arguments

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Hylebos [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] privet caboose Atleast you got your Spikers Hylebos, I didn't get my Blue Team. :([/quote] You win some, you lose some. At least when I lose though, it isn't displayed for the world to see as one of the Top Forum Topics :)[/quote] Low blow man....low blow. Hell, even Shishka added insult to injury. :( I will admit, I love duel wielding, but I always picked the SMG's over the spikers. But, in ODST I found myself using Spikers ALOT. If the Reach spikers feel powerful like the ODST spikers, I'll probably use them alot more. [Edited on 06.09.2010 12:09 AM PDT]

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] privet caboose Atleast you got your Spikers Hylebos, I didn't get my Blue Team. :([/quote] You win some, you lose some. At least when I lose though, it isn't displayed for the world to see as one of the Top Forum Topics :)

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  • so much reading, i never want to hear about the spiker again haha

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  • I can't believe I read through all that and the only thing I can say is that I'm still disappointed Brutes are in... Atleast you got your Spikers Hylebos, I didn't get my Blue Team. :(

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  • So you basically value the spiker as much as you value one of your feet? It's that or you wouldn't mind one of your feet being a kitten with a cactus for a nose. On the serious side of the story, do you actually value a game object so much, that a seven-post long story (almost 70 000 characters) was needed to subdue your cravings for telling the world THE SPIKER HAS TO BE IN! Do you actually believe that a post, even as huge and well thought out as yours, could actually help maintain the presence of the overglorified nailgun? It's going to be or not be ingame regardless of your words and evidence. I'm sorry if I may come of as offensive towards you and the spiker but I'm actually not. It's more of an attack towards your post then the actual meaning of the post in its entirety. exaggeration is the key word here. The same could have been said without the overuse of you literacy skills. -Wes PS: On the actual topic of the spiker returning, your arguments may be swell and all, even canonically speaking, but for the spiker to make it's actual return in the game it needs to really fit in gameplay wise. Making the shots a little bit more powerful ( 10 or less shots or so), faster and perhaps even a 3 spikes a burst firemode could balance it more to make it a useful weapon to use and a more fearful weapon to counter.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Dark Neptune Brutes have to be in Reach, otherwise Campaign would be stale with the same type of enemies. [/quote]Lolwut? [Edited on 06.08.2010 9:51 PM PDT]

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  • In any case, Bungie controls the canon. Brutes have to be in Reach, otherwise Campaign would be stale with the same type of enemies. Perhaps, the Spiker can be the Mauler-version of the AR? Who knows?

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] MegaMuffin16 [url=http://www.bungie.net/images/reachstats/weapons/spiker.png]This[/url] doesn't really confirm the Spiker. You may well remember ODST. A similar occurrence was involved with this game as it was to ODST. On the list of stats in ODST, just as in the Stats Pages of Reach, revealed an Energy Sword, as well as the Sword Spree medal and the Skyjack medal. As far as we know, there is no Energy Sword in ODST, and Skyjacking is pretty much confirmed impossible in ODST. Therefore, the fact that the Spiker is on Reach's Stats Page does not confirm the Spiker in Reach, just as the Energy Sword on ODST's Stats Page doesn't confirm that weapon in ODST. [/quote] There is an energy sword in ODST, it's by the corpse of some Elite and can't be picked up. It's probably just there as a joke of sorts and all the rest is just baggage that goes with the weapon. However, Reach is not an expansion. Baggage like that will be cut if the weapon is cut. As for your other points. The image of the Brute was prominently displayed in clear focus and quite plainly and obviously shows a Brute with a design not encountered in other Halo games. Bungie could only confirm the inclusion of Brutes more by showing a video of gameplay with bright flashing arrows saying "Look guys a Brute!". The "possible Engineer" is just a blurry picture in the extreme background, it's not really relevant to this discussion as the comparison is far from apt. You're completely wrong about segregating Brute and Elite fleets. Brutes were never entrusted to lead fleets prior to the Great Schism, only ships (going by [i]Contact Harvest[/i] at least). By necessity Brute ships in fleets answered to Elite commanders. Also you may notice that in [i]The Package[/i] an assault carrier commanded and controlled by Elites had a sizable number of Brutes in it's crew (let's not hear any foolish claims about [i]Halo: Legends[/i] not being canon, that's provably false). The Halo Wars Halo Universe Timeline also shows an edict from the Prophet of Truth in which command of a number of ships and fleets was transferred to Brutes. Evidence for Brutes being in Halo: Reach is all but definitive while evidence against their inclusion is flimsy and riddled with barely justified extrapolations. That's just the way it is. Good effort though.

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  • That was truly well thought out. It is nearly box tight. Sadly, I have a few points that may suggest that the Spiker is not in Reach. [url=http://www.bungie.net/images/reachstats/weapons/spiker.png]This[/url] doesn't really confirm the Spiker. You may well remember ODST. A similar occurrence was involved with this game as it was to ODST. On the list of stats in ODST, just as in the Stats Pages of Reach, revealed an Energy Sword, as well as the Sword Spree medal and the Skyjack medal. As far as we know, there is no Energy Sword in ODST, and Skyjacking is pretty much confirmed impossible in ODST. Therefore, the fact that the Spiker is on Reach's Stats Page does not confirm the Spiker in Reach, just as the Energy Sword on ODST's Stats Page doesn't confirm that weapon in ODST. [b]No Brutes means no Spiker.[/b] The story of Halo. I read your whole post, so I won't be questioning that Brutes and Spiker's existed before Halo: Reach. [b]You're right, they did[/b]. However, the Spiker is strictly a Brute weapon, and Brutes may still not be in Reach. In addition to the Brute images from Bungie's vidoc, there was a fuzzy image of what some speculate to be an Engineer. (I will post a picture when I get it) The Engineer was a character in ODST and are brought in by the Covenant [i]after[/i] battles. Because it is presumable to say that the game will not take place after every battle on Reach, what's the fun in that? So, the Engineers would serve no purpose in Reach. This, unlikely as it may seem, may be footage from very early production of Reach or even from ODST. So if the Engineer image is from ODST, couldn't the Brutes? And that would mean that we haven't seen any images of Brutes for Reach. Furthermore, we must remember that Reach was attacked in 2552, months before the Covenant Civil War began. Elite fleets and Brute fleets were strictly separated by the Prophet's orders. (With the exception of the Brutes that were with Regrets fleet above New Mombasa, but that was an evil plan conceived by Truth to overthrow the Elites.) In Halo CE, there are no Brutes. This isn't really conclusive evidence, but it may mean that the Covenant fleet that attacked Reach was a strictly Elite fleet of ships. Aside from Halo 2 and ODST and Truth's sinister plan that was conceived [i]after Halo CE[/i], Brute and Elite ships never intermingled and they never shared ships. So, if it was an Elite fleet attacking Reach, that would mean no Brutes. No Brutes, no Spiker. [Edited on 06.08.2010 9:01 PM PDT]

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  • go outside, or publish a full length novel

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Hylebos [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] SenatorKooch If we see it, I think it'll be campaign only. I also think we'll only see Brutes briefly. Why tout the horn of Elites back as what they were like in CE only to have Brutes ruin it?[/quote] I have kinda come to terms with the likely possibillity that the Spiker won't be in default mulitplayer, but I still have hope. As for Brutes, I'd imagine that they'd be like hunters with regards to their rarity. A sort of special encounter that really tries the protagonist to survive.[/quote] It would be cool to see it in multiplayer. On one hand how could they since it wasn't int he beta and would need balance treatment? On the other, what could be the 'X' referred to on Swordbase in the podcast? Eh eh? I used to not care about the Spiker being in Reach, but you've got me thinking it'd be a nice treat. I mean, all the weapons in Reach were fun to me. All of them. So why would this be different? If not in default multiplayer, surely we'd see it in Firefight. [Edited on 06.04.2010 4:28 PM PDT]

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] RaMpAnT__117 Spiker sucked in H3. Period.[/quote] Too bad this is Halo: Reach.

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  • The only argument I could think of is that the spiker is just a brute version of the needler, but really it isn't because (as far as I know) it doesn't track.

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  • You make an extremely convincing arguement for the spiker, which should be expected from you. =P You aren't a fanboy, you're a fanatic!!!! =D I want the spiker to return in some form as well. It was a good weapon in halo 3, and definitely should return in some way for reach.

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  • I've started using spikers more lately, they're fun! It would be nice to see it get an upgrade like the plasma rifle did because we can't dual wield any more.

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  • I completely agree with the theory about them cutting it from Halo 2. Good job!

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  • Wow And I thought I wanted the spiker a lot.

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