Quite a few of those guns still are nasty in PvP long as you deal with them the right way. That and the old armors had great perk set ups like extra grenade throwing distance [b][i]and[/i][/b] extra special ammo(not just a single special weapon type). I'm telling ya', if everyone in a match ran such a setup then we wouldn't have to worry about the majority of issues with newer stuff. Though I gotta admit, it kinda scares me thinking on how Thorn prevalence would go up again. :S