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Edited by Lost Sols:
2/5/2016 2:34:36 AM
148
There's a hole in the bucket, dear Bungie...
Know there's a lot of mixed emotions on the special ammo nerf. I've seen posts pissed off and those gloating.
What's sad is that once more player has turned against player because Bungie can't fix the hole in their bucket.
I just posted in Dom's thread about this and I'm going to repeat myself here. I don't like nerfs of any kind, but I can understand where players like him are coming from gloating that people won't have special to start because it seems like 75% of PvP is snipers or shotguns anymore.
Which brings us to the damn leaking bucket.
When Destiny released on 9/9/14 until 1.1.1 dropped on I believe 4/28/15, there was not a single issue with overuse of special weapons.
People bitched about the range of Fusion Rifles, but nowhere and I mean nowhere, were there raging posts that everyone only used shotguns or snipers or fusion rifles.
Personally, I'm willing to bet less than 5% of my PvP kills were with a special weapon in that span and most everything I died to was a primary.
[b][i]And special ammo was basically infinite.[/i][/b]
That's right. Special ammo spawned the entire match, but everyone didn't just use special weapons [b]because primaries weren't shit.[/b]
1.1.1 changed EVERYTHING.
Bungie felt like there was a leak because they didn't like the number of people using Suros (nevermind that MIDA killed it back then) and so they started the repair by cutting the bottom out of the bucket and nerfed ARs across the board into the ground.
Once ARs were gutted and there were no more close to mid-range buzzsaws, what happened?
Felwinter's Lie.
The death of ARs led to the rise of the shotgun which of course led to the special ammo nerf.
Then hand cannons bit it, followed by pulse rifles.
What did that bring?
Why hello 1000 yard stare.
Now special ammo is being removed from the start of 3v3 playlists.
Are special weapons a problem? Maybe. But shouldn't the solution be to ask [i]why people aren't using primaries[/i]?
Not in Bungieland. In Bungieland you try to minimize leaks by making another hole and thinking it will mean less water flowing out the other. And once more, Bungie are dictating to us how we need to play this game.
When Destiny launched I used everything and loved everything because it was literally all good.
This last IB it took me 8 matches in to get to 10 primary kills and I hate my fusion rifles now, but I hate my primaries that much more.
Up for Anything
Coiled Hiss
B-line
NA3D1
Vanquisher
The only time I wasn't firing them was if someone got under 20 yards and even then I stood a chance with any of them.
People stopped using primaries because Bungie dictated we stop. They took our year one favorites from us. They systematically nerfed classes and made us play their meta.
What has it fixed? What has it made more fun?
There are questionnaires and polls on here all the time and they're all the same. People were the happiest with balance and gameplay at launch and most hate the current state of play.
Bungie's answer?
Another nerf. Always another nerf.
There's a hole in the bucket, dear Bungie...
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The worst part about it is that some of us have put in so much time trying to get to a point where we can compete and have fun in it to just being brought down to being team shotted every match we get put into. Every match is now based on if you can team shot good and has no room for players going off on their own.
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5 RepliesLost sols. I see your posts everywhere. You make it out to seem like you hate this game and company, yet post nonstop about this game like you are obsessed with it. Every type of change that is made you make an elaborate and extensive post about why it was wrong, and how bungie is a horrible inhuman machine. How about this, quit playing the game. I bet the only reason you make these posts is for attention knowibg how to rile people up, getting nonstop replies, and basking in Internet popularity. Go away.
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Edited by Mars3099: 2/7/2016 6:35:19 PM[quote]Not in Bungieland. In Bungieland you try to minimize leaks by making another hole and thinking it will mean less water flowing out the other. [/quote] wow, this actually explains everything
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10 RepliesLOL you think they are going to make a right turn then they go and do some more crazy shit. I've only seen one post complaining about special ammo dropping to often. sad to say nothing they do surprises me anymore, good or bad. Can anyone remember the last time destiny surprised them in a good way? this year? let me take that back srl was ok(just ok), and 3oC, but those were temporary things.
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uh huh...
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Bungie have already stated in round about words that they will keep nerfing in an attempt to keep it fresh. We all know ow it's shit but that's how silly they are. They think it gives variety but in reality it just nerfs everything into crap. They won't learn after all this time so I will. Bye
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1 ReplyEdited by rapiemur: 2/7/2016 5:49:15 AMThere were some powerhouses in the old days for special weapons though. I used a Pocket Infinity in the crucible forever, even after they nerfed the magazine size down to three (just became a highly accurate burst fusion with a negligible reload if you used special loader gauntlets). The Up For Anything on your list there though was one of my favorite primaries to use due to its lack of recoil during extended firefights as I had both counterbalance and perfect balance perks, plus field scout.
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11 RepliesJust get yourself a Mida. The ONLY gun that has a chance against a Mida is TLW at close range. Another bit of Bungie bullshit. Nerfing every other -blam!-ing gun until one reigns supreme!! I liked it when pulse rifles were "good". Now I can get two burst of my red death off before a Mida kills me. Two. Scouts are supposed to be mid to long range. That's was supposed to be their niche. But Mida is a hand cannon with a 21 round clip. At least pulse rifles took some sort of skill. -blam!- you Bungie. That's all I can say. Everyone get out your Midas. Without special to start, everyone will camp their spawns with Midas and this game will be even more one dimensional than it already is.
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I'm so anxious to see how fast Bungie doesn't respond to this... I struggled with the primary kills this IB also. Finally settled in on Bad juju and did alright. My fusions were absolute junk.
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I didn't play much crucible when the game was brand new. I was just awful at it (consistent 0.21 k/d) and there weren't any good tutorials, tips yet. I'd enter into it when I had to for exotic weapon bounties. I got killed a lot. Want to know what killed me? Everything. I got killed by auto rifles, hand cannons, pulse rifles, scout rifles, fusion rifles, snipers, shotguns and rocket launchers. What killed me most often? A primary. Once I had my exotics (except for the thorn) I stayed out of PvP. Fast forward to a few months later during HOW, my clan mates talked me into IB. I told them I was the worst at PvP. They didn't care. So they carried me through IB. What killed me then? Sometimes spare change, thorn, red death, more often than those - the last word. The weapon that killed me most often was the shotgun. Blink shot gunning and slide shot gunning or just players running around with a shotgun. Whenever I got killed by a sniper headshot I felt like congratulating the guy. When it comes to nerfing- and there are those who say that in some cases it is necessary- it must be specific. Specifically which weapon needs the nerf, specifically what aspect needs the nerf (damage, rate of fire or range) and specifically how much to nerf trying to minimize the down-grade as much as possible. Otherwise what once was op becomes the obsolete. The nerfs we've seen in this game tend to be the opposite of the above paragraph. If Bungie could roll everything back to day one before any nerf occurred, then make slight adjustments to the Suros Regime, Vex Mythoclast or whatever, wouldn't be nice to have variety again? Wouldn't it be nice to look at your vault and think, "what would I like to play around with today" instead of, "I need to get these bounties done so it's TLW and 1000 yd stare again."
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4 RepliesYou're absolutely correct. The problem with the crucible and weapon balance cannot be fixed by constantly nerfing/buffing weapons trying to make every one happy. As you said, this creates a problem that can only be fixed by creating another problem. Bungie refuses to look at fundamentals being the problem and that by changing the fundamentals they can create real solutions. The main reason Bungie can't figure out weapon balance is because they really don't know how firearms work in the real world and what balances them there. Bungie can't get a shotgun right because they want that "video game shotgun" that kills at close range and is all but useless elsewhere. That's not how shotguns work. A real shotgun with a 20" barrel and 00 buckshot fires 8 .38 caliber pellets with a spread of one inch per yard. That means that the gun has an effective range of 20 yards, and is just as fatal at that range as it is at point blank. Since those pellets are essentially pistol rounds, it is ineffective on armored targets. So in making that "video game shotgun" they've created something that makes no sense. If the shotgun is powerful enough to penetrate armor, it would still do good damage within range. A shotguns place is that it's a weapon that throws a lot of damage and is pretty generous when it comes to aiming. It is limited by its heavy recoil and its low capacity. If Destiny's shotguns were the least bit realistic, they would be two shot kills at close range (assuming they've decided they can penetrate armor) and three or four shot kills within 15 to 20 yards depending on barrel length. Making all weapons obey the laws and restrictions that exist in reality would help balance weapons. Instead, Bungie fundamentally doesn't know how weapons work and tries to fix this with nerfs and buffs that always end up at some other weapons expense. If Bungie wants to fix weapon balance, they need to go back to the fundamentals. What would help balance all weapons across the board would be making players feel impact. It should be harder to move and aim while sustaining fire. Since this is a minimal or non existent aspect in the crucible, we have shotgunners wading through auto rifle fire because they know if they can get to the sweet spot before dying, they get their one shot kill. We have snipers casually lining up headshots while taking six pulse rifle bullets to the face. These scenarios are ridiculous because no bullet in Destiny matters except for the bullet that kills you. Initiative counts for nothing, so we get these weapon balance problems that they then try to rectify with patches. Learn about firearms, change the fundamentals, look to reality for answers and you'll find you have something much more playable. Lastly, I would like to know who at Bungie would like to volunteer to be shot in the back of the head to prove to me it is less damaging than being shot from the front.
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Maybe people aren't using primaries because primaries can't compete with special weapons, specifically the 1kys.
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21 RepliesYou're such a freaking drama queen dude. You and your girlfriend domination. Everyday you post some big dramatic speech on how the game sucks in different ways. We get it. The game sucks. It has for about 8 months now. Bungie does absolutely nothing. They don't care. Stop making a -blam!-ing soap opera on the forums about it. This is the feedback section, not the bungie hurt my feelings forum. Yet you go on and on with your hole in the bucket or whatever the f-ck you're talking about.. Everyday it's something different with you. Go seek attention elsewhere please- is basically what I'm saying.
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35 RepliesNo! This ruins Trials! No special at spawn means the team that wins the first round gets the special, therefore giving them a clear advantage. Whoever wins round 1 wins the Trials game. That's all there is to say.
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Excellent post. Bungie clearly wants people to use primaries more. But they attempt to accomplish this by nerfing primaries into peashooters and THEN taking special ammo away because special weapons clearly outclass primaries. Everything they do is ass backwards. That's why I stepped away for almost two months after the december weapons patch. It just didn't make any sense.
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Edited by HappyTheBear: 2/6/2016 5:48:54 PMThe problem with Bungie is they think the needs of the few outweigh the needs of the many. Just because a few people start crying about a weapon, they decide to nerf said weapon into the ground and drag its respective weapon class along with it. The only times nerfs should be made is when something gamebreaking is running rampant in the Crucible(like infinite Shadowshot). They keep preaching about weapon diversity, but their constant nerfs make such a thing impossible. I agree that they should bring the game back to 1.1.1. That was the time when weapons were the most diverse.
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Thank the lord
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Bungie is running out of fingers to patch this leaky bucket ;)
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Loved when the game first came out.... everything felt powerful. You could use anything. It was fast paced, chaotic, and awesome! Not this slow, campy, snipe fest we have now.
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Absolutely great post!!!!! Major bump!!!!
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Edited by CatMan: 2/6/2016 6:37:46 AMyeah I didn't get the nerf either, but when has bungie made a nerf players did understand?
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It's even better that you quote spearhead to make your point!!!
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great post
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Edited by chadzka: 2/6/2016 7:35:54 AM10$ says none of the bungie goons will reply or even acknowledge this great and non bias post mainly because IT MAKES SENSE. But you sir get an A for effort.
