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Edited by StealthReaper99:
12/2/2015 4:21:42 AM
35
The PvE vs PvP Problem
I mainly play PvE. Sure I'll hop into the Crucible once in a while, but otherwise all I do is PvE. Here's my problem with all these nerfs and weapon changes coming in:
I don't want the balanced or underpowered gear I use in PvE to be affected by those complaining that it's "OP" in PvP. Remember, Destiny was meant to be a PvE game, but I feel like the gear changes are brought forth mainly due to those in PvP. Consider PvE more when you nerf your gear Bungie.
There's much gear I've always wanted to use so badly in PvE for the fun of it, plus it's effectiveness, such as The Last Word. But we all know it wasn't very good in PvE, and now it got nerfed further, making it nearly unusable.
I understand that PvP players feel similarly at times, I was just saying this based on my perspective as a PvE player. This is the problem, how nerfs and changes affect both sides.
It's really cool and unique how Bungie wanted to incorporate gear into both PvE and PvP. However, I feel that it kinda breaks on each other if that makes any sense. Two very different environment with different mindsets and experiences.
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I wish they could separate pve and pvp. Pve gets major screwed thanks to pvp players.
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1 ReplyHere is a problem https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GgqAWXsKT8w There is still a meta gun out there, and it's under our noses. Lol
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[quote]I mainly play PvE. Sure I'll hop into the Crucible once in a while, but otherwise all I do is PvE. Here's my problem with all these nerfs and weapon changes coming in: I don't want the balanced or underpowered gear I use in PvE to be affected by those complaining that it's "OP" in PvP. Remember, Destiny was meant to be a PvE game, but I feel like the gear changes are brought forth mainly due to those in PvP. Consider PvE more when you nerf your gear Bungie. There's much gear I've always wanted to use so badly in PvE for the fun of it, plus it's effectiveness, such as The Last Word. But we all know it wasn't very good in PvE, and now it got nerfed further, making it nearly unusable. I understand that PvP players feel similarly at times, I was just saying this based on my perspective as a PvE player. This is the problem, how nerfs and changes affect both sides. It's really cool and unique how Bungie wanted to incorporate gear into both PvE and PvP. However, I feel that it kinda breaks on each other if that makes any sense. Two very different environment with different mindsets and experiences.[/quote] They keep the ratios mostly separate. They're focused on pvp. Pve is mostly balanced. Except wizards... Yeah.. Stay away from those guys.
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2 RepliesEdited by RiasRed: 11/30/2015 4:39:23 AMCompletely agree. The point of the game (until they improve their storytelling) is to have fun and get better gear. The benefit of getting better gear is that you become a more efficient killer. In PvE, this a good thing. The higher the difficulty, the more proficient you need to be. In PvP, the more kills you get with your effective weapons, the more people complain about it. Then your hard earned gear and it's entire archetype gets nerfed. Where is the incentive to spend time trying to get better gear? Why should you continue playing the game if your gear is going to get nerfed or left behind?
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1 ReplyI really think this is by design to further increase the grind. Eg. Find perfect auto rifle *nerf. Find perfect hand cannon *nerf. Move to pulse rifle *nerf. Move back to auto rifle. Build fussion arsenal with burns and perfect rolls *nerf. Build shotgun perfect arsenal with burns and perfect rolls *nerf. Create artificial weapons parts shortage to clear out everyone's inventory so they HAVE to grind after the next nerf. Nerfing is a cheap way to extend the grind without doing a damn thing.
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4 RepliesThey just need to separate the nerfs... Plain and simple. We already know they can - they buffed shotgun damage by 200% on minions of the darkness (read PvE only) back in the day. There is no reason to ever nerf anything in PvE - including the BS with Field Scout. They just need to tweak things in PvP and leave them alone in PvE!
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Edited by D1eThx: 11/30/2015 5:47:11 PMForever this game will always be oriented around the PVP side. They want PVP to be the mainstay of destiny. Your guns are always at risk. Whenever some kid cries nerf in PVP expect PVE changes that just further reduce your effectiveness and survivability.
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3 RepliesBungie has clearly implied that this game is based more around PvP than PvE. How, you ask? Simple. The hardest PvE game mode doesn't even guarantee you valuable drops (Raids & NF). But events like Trials or IB guarantee you valuable packages. Furthermore, every weapon balance update issued was based around complaints and stats in PvP. Unfortunately, this will not change. Bungie is going to continue issuing updates strictly based on PvP stats.
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The problem with separating PvE and PvP by things like range, stability, damage dropoff, aim assist and accuracy is that the gun you use in the crucible, for example Hawkmoon, would not be the same gun as it is in PvE. It would [i]feel[/i] different and essentially not be Hawkmoon in either. Now damage is a stat that they can split and not change how a weapon performs in one mode, whilst buffing or nerfing it in the other, as it doesn't affect how the weapon handles or where it can be used effectively. But if they think that handcannons should be close range weapons to differentiate them from scout rifles, and in doing so they mess up the accuracy on all of them, that change will affect both PvP and PvE, and your Hawkmoon will be worse in both modes. This is why I disagree with both range and accuracy nerfs on specific exotics and blanket changes (other than stability) for entire weapon types, because they ruin the feel of weapons as a whole. Now TLW is a special case, because similarly to NLB, it is part of a very small subset of weapons that people do not use regularly (I bet <1% do) in the other mode. So I believe that since TLW is a crucible weapon, due to its pitiful damage against AI, any changes to it are, for all intents and purposes, crucible only and it is one of the few weapons where a range nerf was required ( not this severe of course, I'm yet to see a consistent damage number as all of its shots suffer from falloff) and could be justified as not affecting the PvE metagame.
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This game will never be an 'open' and 'free-ranging' environment as long as PvP and PvE remain unreconciled. This dichotomy has become banal and tiresome. Destiny: come for the sci-fi vibe, stay for the aim-assist!
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Bungie has shown they can separate the two when it comes to buff/nerfs- they did it with shotguns when they buffed it however many percent for non guardian kills.
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12 RepliesEdited by kellygreen45: 11/30/2015 4:47:11 PMThe game is both, actually. PvP doesn't stop being a significant part of this game, just because you are largely uninterested in it. There are PvP players who feel the same way about the PvE content. The problem is that PvP and PvE players want radically different things from weapons.l PvE players want POWER. They want weapons that are noticeably better than other weapons, and visibly make they game easier to play against the often absurdly overpowered enemies they face in PvE. The problem is such God Guns will BREAK any Pvp experience....and can threaten to even break the game in PvE if they get too out of hand (Gjallarhorn). PvP players want BALANCE. They want weapons that (within a particular group of weapons) basically all perform the same, and have a similar time-to-killl. That way whoever wins is determined by skill and play quality rather than who simply has the best gear. The problem is that such balance leaves many PvE players feeling like you do. That their weapons are being robbed of power, and that they are being robbed of incentive to play because all the weapons are so much alike. WHICH IS WHY MOST GAMES HAVE SEPERATE GEAR TRACKS FOR PVP AND PVE. Because it is so difficult to try to come up with a single weapon system that will keep BOTH factions happy...that most developers don't even bother trying. But part of what makes Destiny unique is that ability to take any weapon from anywhere and use it anyplace and anytime. So Bungie is taking HEAD ON a very difficult thing that most developers just flat-out avoid dealing with. So before you start raging, you might want to consider just how difficult it is to do what Bungie is trying to do...and get it right.
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Edited by [ＳiＮ]大き氷: 12/1/2015 2:51:47 AMUh well as far as sides go I've played both plenty and do not see this problem at all. Let alone it being exclusive to one side or the other. Frankly if something is removed from the game it is for the better. For one reason or another it was detrimental, be it bugs or exploits bungie didn't think about. --------Balance passes are fine, all they've done is closer define a weapons role in a fight. The only disagreeable thing they could do in PvE is leave kill times as high as they are. Which I do disagree with. Not forgetting but to a lesser degree ammo counts. An example is that I'm fine with the direction shotguns are going, but they should tear up like before they patched them. Though I do see why they did go back on it halfway, however I feel they did it the wrong way. Kill times in PvE are at times stupidly long. It's like they are made with at least 3 players in mind. Which I get but is frankly annoying. --------Now is it our ability that should be changed or the enemy health pool? Personally I'd go with our abilities. Make them more skill based and with that more damage if you are capable. This way it's more gratifying to kill things. This PvP vs PvE balancing fiasco is just noise. It's not about the enemies you fight or the abilities you are using. It's not like bungie can't make things act differently between the two they just don't or haven't. --------I know you all have seen the perk for more super energy when killing minions. It's a perfect example, just how more damage against [ x ] enemy is another. I'd like to see more of that as well, but it's not PvP that's keeping them from us, it's simply bungie.
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All they need to do is apply an equal buff for pve when they nerf for pvp. They proved they can do that when they put it out iin the news that they're nerfing most archetypes of pulse rifle, individually. All they needa do is buff them individually for the same amount for pve activities. Or just not have the pulse nerf apply to pve at all (just like the old, now gone, pve shotgun damage buff only applied to pve).
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If they continue the nerfing cycle to weapons to "balance" PVP... they will continue to lose the main core of players of this game as they are taking away the fun in PVE for the sake of PVP. Nerfing supers and weapons is the incorrect way to balance, if anything roll upwards with changes to keep the players on the winning side of change... not taking away from players at ever turn.
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Bungholiovision is just following where the next $Buck$ will come from. They give jack sh it about you and me. And jack left town. They have our money and when new ppl come(see refer a friend) they'll take there cash then stop caring about them. I wrote a post about the only way to get back... Stop playing!
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Destiny is dead because of incompetent Bungie.
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Way back in the vanilla days it was obvious that this was to be PvP centric.
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4 RepliesOnly way to fix this is they need to separate pve and pvp altogether.
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2 RepliesMarch 2016: you can only stagger oryx by using auto rifle because sniper is removed and scout got nerfed because of mida
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Yea the last word kinda sucks and i want the titan hammers to stay awesome
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Bump again.
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it never made sense to me why they kept changing the weapons for pvp as well as pve. We all know they have the power to change the stats of a gun on the pvp side only from past updates.
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4 RepliesThe intended role for each gun is the same for both pvp and pve. So yes they should apply to pve.
