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#Halo

8/29/2009 8:26:26 PM
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Humanity are not Forerunners, but in fact Precursors? [Update 2.0]

All throughout the Halo trilogy, we have been led to believe there is a connection between the Forerunners and Humanity. For example, Halo can only be fired by a human, 343 Guilty Spark recognises humanity as "Reclaimers," naming the Covenant as 'Meddlers.' The terminals also imply a deep connection. Now, many have speculated that Forerunners are humans, yet more advanced. Some believe that Forerunners adopted us as their heirs. There are a fair few crazy theories out there, most, if not all, basically stating that humans are in some way descended from Forerunners. Now I approach you with a different outlook. What if humanity were not descended from the Forerunners, but what if they were, in fact, the fabled Precursors' last legacy? First, I'll dismiss the argument that 343 Guilty Spark says "You are Forerunner," to John-117 by saying this - Spark has always been confused, in Combat Evolved, he believed you were the Forerunner who activated Halo the first time around. In the Bestarium, it makes mention that all of Spark's observations are 'Under Investigation', whereas Tangent's (Monitor of Installation 05) observations are all confirmed. Now I know what you're thinking: "Wolverfrog, you nutter! They can't be precursors, that's impossible!" But is it really? Let's start by taking a look at what the word 'Reclaimer' really means. To recover, to reclaim what was once yours. Now I don't see why the Forerunners would attribute humanity with such a term, it wouldn't make sense if humans are supposed to be the adopted race of the Forerunners. However, assuming hypothetically that humanity are in fact the last remnant of the Precursors, it would make sense. A safe thing to assume would be that Forerunner technology is based off Precursor technology, much in the same way that the Covenant base their technology off the Forerunners. Now if that is the case, then it would make sense that the Forerunners would name the humans 'Reclaimer', to inherit, and regain all that they lost. In the terminals, the Librarian, love of the Didact, refers to Earth as Eden, and a place of wonder. Iris, the Halo 3 ARG, also has a little to say on this. [quote][i]The anomalous world is in a perilous location beyond the line. The secrets it holds must be preserved, plans within plans within plans. [b]The inhabitants; these unique denizens, must be researched. They may hold answers to our own mysteries[/b]. What irony that we discovered this treasure, only at the end of things. But what fortune that we still had time to save them. The thing we built on that world will vouchsafe their lives, but perhaps one day it will be used for its intended purpose. If the plan succeeds, and they are saved, it will be a good world. If the plan fails, and the adversary succeeds, it will remain an enigma forever with no one left to reclaim it. [/i][/quote] Now you see, it is talking about Earth, and the 'unique denizens' are humanity. It leaves you with the questions, why must we be researched? What answers can we give to the Forerunners? Surely simply being chosen by the Forerunners to carry on their work in the event that they perish does not grant us this amount of awe? I believe that Earth is a Precursor world, perhaps their home world. At the very height of their power, the precursors were the dominant force throughout the universe. However, due to unknown reasons, they vanished, passing down a mantle to their chosen race to continue their legacy: the Forerunners. However, what if the Precursors had [i]not[/i] been wiped out, but in fact, merely faded away, realising that omniscience was a terrible burden. A likely scenario is that the Precursors encountered the Flood, which would make the Flood much like the Reapers in Mass Effect; they wipe out cultures once they are advanced enough. The Flood could have forced the Precursors back into hiding, where they lost all their technology. Eventually, perhaps only one world, Earth, remained, and so eventually the Precursors had lost all of their knowledge and power, and became what we know today as humanity. I know you think a species 'devolving' seems unlikely, but I will direct you here to the case of the Brutes. At one point in their history, they were as advanced as the Covenant, until a civil war threw them back into the industrial age. Something similar of this sort could have happened to the Precursors. In the sixth terminal, the Librarian states this to the Didact. [quote]We knew this was a special place because of them, but unless you've been here, you can't know. [/quote] Now that seems to be good proof. She is calling Earth a special place because of [i]them[/i]. Just who are 'them?' Humanity springs to mind, but what if she was talking about the Precursors? It's a long shot, but it's an option, one that I believe. I've probably missed out a lot, I shall scourer the terminals again and make necessary edits. Thanks for reading, please voice your opinion. [quote][/quote] [b]Update 1.2[/b] (I had this all neatly typed up, but it got deleted by a posting error. So forgive me if some of this update doesn't make sense, it's late at night and I'm kind of tired.) Reach is situated within the Epsilon Eridani system, a mere 10.5 lightyears from the Sol System, and it's closest neighbouring system. Now, let's go with the idea that Earth was in fact, the Precursor homeworld. Once they had achieved space exploration level, it's likely the first system they would have discovered is the Epsilon Eridani system. The Precursors would have also discovered Reach, and probably inhabited it. Now let's jump to First Strike. Halsey and the Spartans discover a network of what they believe to be 'Forerunner caverns' underneath the ONI CASTLE facility. Inside these ruins, they discover a crystal, which can bend space and time. It seems awfully advanced, even for the Forerunners. Now, what if the Forerunners hadn't built the caverns and crystal, but the Precursors had? I'm not just thinking up random ideas as I go along though. What I find unlikely is that the Forerunners would have discovered Reach, but a few light years away from Earth, and have the time to construct caverns and house a ridiculously advanced crystal within, yet not discover Earth and humanity until a short time before activating Halo. Why would they waste time constructing such a complex when they were faced with extinction? My opinion is that the Precursors built it. Which is why, when Fred 104 touches the glyphs on the complex, he gets a 'Frustratingly familiar' feeling, as if he's seen them before. Genetic instincts perhaps, from humanity's Precursor ancestors? Simply becoming Reclaimers of the Forerunners wouldn't give humanity instinctive knowledge of how their technology works. And if the Forerunners based all their technology off of the Precursors relics they had discovered, it would explain why the Master Chief sub conciously could activate the various devices upon Halo. And, running along with this idea that Reach had been colonised by the Precursors, what if every UNSC Colony world which had mysterious 'Forerunner artefacts' were in fact, also Precursor? Perhaps humanity was merely following in their Precursors ancestors ancient footsteps, as they themselves first ventured into the Galactic beyond. [b]Update 2.0[/b] Oh Lord, this is all too perfect. The first Halo Legends episode, [i]The Babysitter[/i] was released, and it speaks volumes for this theory. The ODSTs have a mission alongside a Spartan to assassinate a Prophet at some unknown alien ruins. Cortez, the ODST squad leader, at some point in the mission briefing says: [quote]"The architecture is not Covenant design and it sure as hell wasn't built by humans. It pre-dates both sides."[/quote] As I was watching this I nodded along and thought, 'Forerunner'. That's what it pointed to right? Perhaps not. Later on when we actually see these ruins, they sure look confusing. It actually looks more like human ancient Japanese design than Forerunner. Naturally, everyone is complaining about it, saying it isn't Forerunner. And perhaps it isn't. Perhaps it is Precursor. Now let's say, back in the day, the Precursors built some structures like that, with that design. They colonise the planet their human descendants (Remember the greater theory) walk upon hundreds of thousands of years later. And they build these ruins. Now what if, in the Haloverse, Japanese building designs were inspired by ancient Precursor blueprints that the ancient Japanese discovered? What if those ruins on the planet in [i]The Babysitter[/i] are in fact meant to look like they do? Not Forerunner ruins, but Precursor. Also, the statues inside the ruins show what seem to be animals usually found on Earth. And who do we theorise do originate from Earth? That's right, the Precursors. If the Forerunners had built the ruins, then surely they would have images of their Gods, not animals. [b]In other words: [/b] - Precursors colonise planet, build ruins we see in [i]The Babysitter.[/i] - Precursors then become humanity after catastrophic event. - Halo is fired by Forerunners. - Precursor remnants (humans) repopulate Earth. - Ancient Japanese discover incredibly old Precursor building blueprints, design their buildings in the same way. - ODST squad and Spartan in [i]The Babysitter[/i] discover these ancient ruins, Halo fans cry out "But they're not Forerunner!" - Because they aren't. They're Precursor. [b]Last minute input: [/b][url=http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=18391672&postcount=243]Oh my God, Frankie just practically confirmed this section of the theory![/url] [Edited on 11.07.2009 3:54 PM PST]

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  • Question though, in the halo 3 terminals; the librarian discovers Earth and humanity on accident at the very end of the forerunner vs. flood conflict. The librarian called them special and built the ark so that humanity would survive the firing of the rings. And because the librarian found humanity "special" they made it so that humanity could use forerunner technology. Why is there so much being looked into them being the precursors unless there is some information I have not seen? Now I have no knowledge of "The Babysitter" and I would really like to know more about that but could it not be that the Forerunner built structures with humanity's image before the rings were activated?

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  • im thinking a bit grate jorny thing mabe thay evolved beoyond bodiely bounds and went levle 0 on the mantle thing

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  • while it may be wrong of guilty spark saying that MC is forerunner, (because he could be confused AND rampent), why has it been I have seen NOTHING from the grave mind. I could swear something he said had to do with him. That could be a huge changer in this entire forum. Also, Halo Wars could possibly be added with some info to help us understand if we are forerunner or precursors. At least the technology and stuff.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Crimius I can definitely see the validity this theory holds, however i have reservations about saying that the precursors "devolved" into humanity. such advanced races don't simply fade out, there's some sort of event that either kills them or forces them to leave. In the Precursors case, it might have been a flood outbreak, they might have simply moved into a different dimension (because from what little we know of them, they were even more advanced at traversing the dimensions than the forerunners were, so this may have been a trivial matter). I highly doubt they all just devolved into humanity though.[/quote]In the beastarium included in the halo 3 legendary edition (i think), it says that the precursors were higher than the forerunner in technology, so if you piece this together, they could have been able to know more things than the forerunner can even understand.the precursors were at tier 0 technology level, while the forerunners had a tier 1 tech level. Humanity is at tier 3, while The Covenant is at tier 2. More info can be found on halopedian.com (halopedia has moved from wikia and has become independent). Source:[url=http://www.halopedian.com/Technological_Achievement]Technological_Achievement[/url] [url]http://www.halopedian.com/[/url](new halopedia)

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  • Finally! A crackpot theory which constructs a well thought out and believable argument. So much so that it may not be a crackpot theory at all...

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  • One of the most Awesome theories ive ever seen for the halo story Ever It makes perfect sence, and i suppose the question is along the lines of "What happened to humanity to make them primitive?" Or even if they had? Maybe the forerunners used the technology the precursors had to rebuild a human being, and bring them back from extinction And maybe humanity will return the favour Still though, fun question, is the Legendary planet Forerunner, or precursor? :O :O :O And Oh, intresting thought, is there any evidence of the forerunners Actually Refering to themselves as "ForeRunner", since the disambugation of the word means "Those who come before" [Edited on 12.12.2010 11:13 AM PST]

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Cladblackninj4 Ok you can't take what they did in halo ledgends seriously its an Anime made by japanese people that is why all the buildings look japanese. Nothing but artistic license. About what the ODST said [quote]"The architecture is not Covenant design and it sure as hell wasn't built by humans. It pre-dates both sides."[/quote] The ODST and humanity as a whole did not know much about the forunners because ONI kept it locked down. But as you said Spark says "you are forunner" he is crazy but the only humans are able to activate forunner tech. MC is called a relcaimer because he is reclaiming what the forunners had lost to the flood. You ask why would forunners build all these instilations if they were losing a war. I ask how the forunners would change all there tech to acommidate humans and not anyone else. Forunners could create entire planets and suns they had the tech to create the crystal in first strike also. Precursers were teir 0 they either left the galaxy are trancended time and space. The forunners recived their religion "the mantle" from the precursers before the precursers dissapeared. The forunners wouldn't allow the precursers to de-evolve after recieving the mantle. [/quote] I can reach that conclusion if I like; it's my theory. Frank O' Connor pretty much stated that the buildings weren't Forerunner. - When Spark says "You are Forerunner" he either is off his head or, a more likely scenario, is referring to the Precursors; to the Forerunners as we know them, the Precursors would seem as Forerunners to them. - Sure, the Forerunners could create semblances of planets and stars, but an object that manipulates space-time? I don't know about that. - Precursors were Tier 0 indeed, but your suggestion that they left the galaxy is baseless conjecture, when you think about it. - You don't know that they received the mantle before then. - At the time of the Precursors succumbing to whatever brought about their ruin, I imagine that the Forerunners were of a similar technological level as humanity when the Forerunners were toppled. What were they supposed to do?

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  • This sir, is full of win...

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  • bumped for justice

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Cladblackninj4 Ok you can't take what they did in halo ledgends seriously its an Anime made by japanese people that is why all the buildings look japanese. Nothing but artistic license.[/quote] It's still canon, Frankie even suggested that the architecture wasn't Forerunner so who says it can't be Precursor. The ruins on Installation 05 inside the Forerunner shrines looks similar. [quote]they had the tech to create the crystal in first strike also.[/quote] That is never confirmed to be of Forerunner origin, and I doubt it is.

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  • Wow good job mate. I've never thought of an idea so crazy, yet plausible, as this. I guess it makes sense.

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  • Ok you can't take what they did in halo ledgends seriously its an Anime made by japanese people that is why all the buildings look japanese. Nothing but artistic license. About what the ODST said [quote]"The architecture is not Covenant design and it sure as hell wasn't built by humans. It pre-dates both sides."[/quote] The ODST and humanity as a whole did not know much about the forunners because ONI kept it locked down. But as you said Spark says "you are forunner" he is crazy but the only humans are able to activate forunner tech. MC is called a relcaimer because he is reclaiming what the forunners had lost to the flood. You ask why would forunners build all these instilations if they were losing a war. I ask how the forunners would change all there tech to acommidate humans and not anyone else. Forunners could create entire planets and suns they had the tech to create the crystal in first strike also. Precursers were teir 0 they either left the galaxy are trancended time and space. The forunners recived their religion "the mantle" from the precursers before the precursers dissapeared. The forunners wouldn't allow the precursers to de-evolve after recieving the mantle.

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  • I think humans, brutes, grunts, jackals, skirmishers, prophets, etc. are all the forerunners as a whole. And they are all needed to activate the halo array. ex. Prophets understand forerunner artifacts Humans can activate them [Edited on 12.04.2010 9:52 AM PST]

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  • The precursors wanted the forerunners to complete their work and the forerunners wanted humanity to complete their work. Humanity is the forerunners "sacred race" and they thought it was well worth their sacrifice(halo array) to save humans from the flood

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  • You have opened my mind more to the halo universe. I always knew that in some way, Humans were like the forerunners, but i couldn't quite connect the dots. You've done that, nice job.

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  • i think that the humans are the forrunners just a more primitive mindset

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  • So interesting, I can't wait for the new Forerunner novel coming out this month!

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  • WolverFrog has stumbled upon awesomeness. This explains why the forerunner were able t5o be wiped out by the flood. The forerunner were unbelievably powerful yet were suddenly destroyed by something that was bigger then them? That only makes sense if the flood came from the precursors becasue the precursers were better than the fore runner. Otherwise the almighty forerunner failed to obvserve a new species evolve that could eleminate them with ease. Theory: The legendary planet, (the one master cheif floatyed to at end of H3) may be precursor?

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Wolverfrog ...Amazing post...[/quote] This actually makes shocking amounts of sense. I almost want to combine this theory with that of the gravemind being created by the precursors. Something to combat death, something that stores all the memories of dead precursors for categorization. Until it became sentient and used that knowledge and memories against them. Maybe this was a fallback tactic to combat the flood? Instead of giving them the secrets, memories, and knowledge to take over the universe they wiped themselves clean. Started over. They moved far enough that the flood would starve but their memories were dangerous. They needed a complete reformatting.

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  • Wow WolverFrog i think our minds think alike on my drawing I did of a forerunner I had gotten into an argument with a user on what humans really were. Scroll down until you find my May 1st post on my 2 opinions of what humans are. My 2nd opinion is exactly what you just wrote here including the lost alien ruins on "The Babysitter" and how the asian culture found and adopted it. [url=http://guyver89.deviantart.com/gallery/#/d2gvfhc] HERE[/url] [Edited on 11.15.2010 1:16 PM PST]

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  • [quote]Halo legends was made by 343 so it isn't offically part of the halo universe.[/quote] Wrong. It is part of the universe. 343 is the new home of Halo, under the banner of Microsoft. Frank O'Conner, head of all things Halo, moved with Halo from Bungie to 343, and was behind the making Halo Legends. He's even written one of the stories in Halo Evolutions. Everything 343 does is canon, because 343 is now as much of Halo as Bungie was.

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  • Brilliant theory, It all fits doesn't it? I'll be checking back!

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  • i really like the theory and think it is really interesting, but there is a few things, scratch that one major thing that confuses me. the precursors theory, in the cannon Halo Universe they have made no reference of precursors to my knowledge, and that is probably because I dismiss halo anime as non cannon. Also Im not sure all of the books are cannon either, given that the game reach is very different from the book. But in the end I think this theory wud be amazing as a game and probably be better than whatever 343 industries churns out, since bungie is no longer in the business of aliens fighting super humans. Because in the end you have to look at the story from a purely economic stand point, what will make microsoft the most money, this means it has to balance complexity with understanding for people that just picked up the game as their first halo game. Me as a halo fan since the CE days would find this theory amazing but probably the average halo noob would not get it.

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  • This theory could also point to the theory of Halo being related to Christianity as if God=Percursors and we were made in God's image, then Humans=Descendants of Purcursors.

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  • It's a long shot that humans are Precursors. There is no proof that Precursors even ever existed they're part of a foreruner religion. Halo legends was made by 343 so it isn't offically part of the halo universe. Humans are reclaimers because they are the only ones that were supose to reclaim foreruner tech. Somewhere it said that foreruners pasted the mantle to humanity so humanity is a sort of heir to the foreruners. honestly I think that this theroy is a bit shaky

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  • The Precursors populating Earth and Reach could explain why there are Moas on Reach maybe the Precursors transferred some animals from Earth to Reach and the Moas were one of the species they transferred, staying alive on Reach but dying out and becoming extinct on Earth this might prove something im not sure i worded it right though

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