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8/29/2009 8:26:26 PM
490
Humanity are not Forerunners, but in fact Precursors? [Update 2.0]
All throughout the Halo trilogy, we have been led to believe there is a connection between the Forerunners and Humanity. For example, Halo can only be fired by a human, 343 Guilty Spark recognises humanity as "Reclaimers," naming the Covenant as 'Meddlers.' The terminals also imply a deep connection.
Now, many have speculated that Forerunners are humans, yet more advanced. Some believe that Forerunners adopted us as their heirs. There are a fair few crazy theories out there, most, if not all, basically stating that humans are in some way descended from Forerunners.
Now I approach you with a different outlook. What if humanity were not descended from the Forerunners, but what if they were, in fact, the fabled Precursors' last legacy?
First, I'll dismiss the argument that 343 Guilty Spark says "You are Forerunner," to John-117 by saying this -
Spark has always been confused, in Combat Evolved, he believed you were the Forerunner who activated Halo the first time around. In the Bestarium, it makes mention that all of Spark's observations are 'Under Investigation', whereas Tangent's (Monitor of Installation 05) observations are all confirmed.
Now I know what you're thinking: "Wolverfrog, you nutter! They can't be precursors, that's impossible!"
But is it really? Let's start by taking a look at what the word 'Reclaimer' really means. To recover, to reclaim what was once yours. Now I don't see why the Forerunners would attribute humanity with such a term, it wouldn't make sense if humans are supposed to be the adopted race of the Forerunners. However, assuming hypothetically that humanity are in fact the last remnant of the Precursors, it would make sense. A safe thing to assume would be that Forerunner technology is based off Precursor technology, much in the same way that the Covenant base their technology off the Forerunners.
Now if that is the case, then it would make sense that the Forerunners would name the humans 'Reclaimer', to inherit, and regain all that they lost.
In the terminals, the Librarian, love of the Didact, refers to Earth as Eden, and a place of wonder. Iris, the Halo 3 ARG, also has a little to say on this.
[quote][i]The anomalous world is in a perilous location beyond the line. The secrets it holds must be preserved, plans within plans within plans. [b]The inhabitants; these unique denizens, must be researched. They may hold answers to our own mysteries[/b]. What irony that we discovered this treasure, only at the end of things. But what fortune that we still had time to save them. The thing we built on that world will vouchsafe their lives, but perhaps one day it will be used for its intended purpose. If the plan succeeds, and they are saved, it will be a good world. If the plan fails, and the adversary succeeds, it will remain an enigma forever with no one left to reclaim it. [/i][/quote]
Now you see, it is talking about Earth, and the 'unique denizens' are humanity. It leaves you with the questions, why must we be researched? What answers can we give to the Forerunners? Surely simply being chosen by the Forerunners to carry on their work in the event that they perish does not grant us this amount of awe?
I believe that Earth is a Precursor world, perhaps their home world. At the very height of their power, the precursors were the dominant force throughout the universe. However, due to unknown reasons, they vanished, passing down a mantle to their chosen race to continue their legacy: the Forerunners.
However, what if the Precursors had [i]not[/i] been wiped out, but in fact, merely faded away, realising that omniscience was a terrible burden. A likely scenario is that the Precursors encountered the Flood, which would make the Flood much like the Reapers in Mass Effect; they wipe out cultures once they are advanced enough. The Flood could have forced the Precursors back into hiding, where they lost all their technology. Eventually, perhaps only one world, Earth, remained, and so eventually the Precursors had lost all of their knowledge and power, and became what we know today as humanity.
I know you think a species 'devolving' seems unlikely, but I will direct you here to the case of the Brutes. At one point in their history, they were as advanced as the Covenant, until a civil war threw them back into the industrial age. Something similar of this sort could have happened to the Precursors.
In the sixth terminal, the Librarian states this to the Didact.
[quote]We knew this was a special place because of them, but unless you've been here, you can't know. [/quote]
Now that seems to be good proof. She is calling Earth a special place because of [i]them[/i]. Just who are 'them?' Humanity springs to mind, but what if she was talking about the Precursors?
It's a long shot, but it's an option, one that I believe. I've probably missed out a lot, I shall scourer the terminals again and make necessary edits. Thanks for reading, please voice your opinion.
[quote][/quote]
[b]Update 1.2[/b]
(I had this all neatly typed up, but it got deleted by a posting error. So forgive me if some of this update doesn't make sense, it's late at night and I'm kind of tired.)
Reach is situated within the Epsilon Eridani system, a mere 10.5 lightyears from the Sol System, and it's closest neighbouring system.
Now, let's go with the idea that Earth was in fact, the Precursor homeworld.
Once they had achieved space exploration level, it's likely the first system they would have discovered is the Epsilon Eridani system. The Precursors would have also discovered Reach, and probably inhabited it.
Now let's jump to First Strike. Halsey and the Spartans discover a network of what they believe to be 'Forerunner caverns' underneath the ONI CASTLE facility. Inside these ruins, they discover a crystal, which can bend space and time. It seems awfully advanced, even for the Forerunners.
Now, what if the Forerunners hadn't built the caverns and crystal, but the Precursors had?
I'm not just thinking up random ideas as I go along though. What I find unlikely is that the Forerunners would have discovered Reach, but a few light years away from Earth, and have the time to construct caverns and house a ridiculously advanced crystal within, yet not discover Earth and humanity until a short time before activating Halo. Why would they waste time constructing such a complex when they were faced with extinction?
My opinion is that the Precursors built it. Which is why, when Fred 104 touches the glyphs on the complex, he gets a 'Frustratingly familiar' feeling, as if he's seen them before. Genetic instincts perhaps, from humanity's Precursor ancestors? Simply becoming Reclaimers of the Forerunners wouldn't give humanity instinctive knowledge of how their technology works. And if the Forerunners based all their technology off of the Precursors relics they had discovered, it would explain why the Master Chief sub conciously could activate the various devices upon Halo.
And, running along with this idea that Reach had been colonised by the Precursors, what if every UNSC Colony world which had mysterious 'Forerunner artefacts' were in fact, also Precursor?
Perhaps humanity was merely following in their Precursors ancestors ancient footsteps, as they themselves first ventured into the Galactic beyond.
[b]Update 2.0[/b]
Oh Lord, this is all too perfect. The first Halo Legends episode, [i]The Babysitter[/i] was released, and it speaks volumes for this theory.
The ODSTs have a mission alongside a Spartan to assassinate a Prophet at some unknown alien ruins.
Cortez, the ODST squad leader, at some point in the mission briefing says:
[quote]"The architecture is not Covenant design and it sure as hell wasn't built by humans. It pre-dates both sides."[/quote]
As I was watching this I nodded along and thought, 'Forerunner'. That's what it pointed to right? Perhaps not.
Later on when we actually see these ruins, they sure look confusing. It actually looks more like human ancient Japanese design than Forerunner. Naturally, everyone is complaining about it, saying it isn't Forerunner. And perhaps it isn't. Perhaps it is Precursor.
Now let's say, back in the day, the Precursors built some structures like that, with that design. They colonise the planet their human descendants (Remember the greater theory) walk upon hundreds of thousands of years later. And they build these ruins.
Now what if, in the Haloverse, Japanese building designs were inspired by ancient Precursor blueprints that the ancient Japanese discovered? What if those ruins on the planet in [i]The Babysitter[/i] are in fact meant to look like they do? Not Forerunner ruins, but Precursor.
Also, the statues inside the ruins show what seem to be animals usually found on Earth. And who do we theorise do originate from Earth? That's right, the Precursors. If the Forerunners had built the ruins, then surely they would have images of their Gods, not animals.
[b]In other words: [/b]
- Precursors colonise planet, build ruins we see in [i]The Babysitter.[/i]
- Precursors then become humanity after catastrophic event.
- Halo is fired by Forerunners.
- Precursor remnants (humans) repopulate Earth.
- Ancient Japanese discover incredibly old Precursor building blueprints, design their buildings in the same way.
- ODST squad and Spartan in [i]The Babysitter[/i] discover these ancient ruins, Halo fans cry out "But they're not Forerunner!"
- Because they aren't. They're Precursor.
[b]Last minute input: [/b][url=http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=18391672&postcount=243]Oh my God, Frankie just practically confirmed this section of the theory![/url]
[Edited on 11.07.2009 3:54 PM PST]
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Wolverfrog Now I know what you're thinking [/quote] Did Master Chief shoot six shots or only five?
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For those who dare to read this long wall of text: I'm gonna go out on a wild stretch here so bear with me. We have to wonder about the Neolithic origins in the Halo Universe, and how and why the Forerunner and/or the Precursors fit into this picture. Let's look back at our past. How is it that our species acquired such a great amount of intelligence in such a short amount of time? According to a man famous for rather wild and interesting theories, Terence McKenna mentions in one of his lectures that the human neo cortex is "the most dramatic transformation of a major organ of a higher animal in the entire fossil record." Now I know mushrooms aren't really mentioned in the Halo Universe and I don't want you guys to think of me as a hippie or anything but check out his theory: "McKenna hypothesized that as the North African jungles receded and gave way to savannas and grasslands near the end of the most recent ice age, a branch of our tree-dwelling primate ancestors left the forest canopy and began to live in the open areas outside of the forest. There they experimented with new varieties of foods as they adapted, physically and mentally, to their new environment. Among the new food items found in this new environment were psilocybin-containing mushrooms growing near the dung of ungulate herds that occupied the savannas and grasslands at that time. McKenna, referencing the research of Roland L. Fisher, claimed that enhancement of visual acuity was an effect of psilocybin at low doses, and supposed that this would have conferred an adaptive advantage. He also argued that the effects of slightly larger doses, including -blam!- arousal, and in still larger doses, ecstatic hallucinations and glossolalia gave selective evolutionary advantages to members of those tribes who partook of it. There were many changes caused by the introduction of this psychoactive mushroom to the primate diet. McKenna hypothesizes, for instance, that synesthesia (the blurring of boundaries between the senses) caused by psilocybin led to the development of spoken language: the ability to form pictures in another person's mind through the use of vocal sounds. About 12,000 years ago, further climate changes removed psilocybin-containing mushrooms from the human diet. McKenna argued that this event resulted in a new set of profound changes in our species as we reverted to the previous brutal primate social structures that had been modified and/or repressed by frequent consumption of psilocybin." -Wikipedia.org This man believed that these mushrooms were essentially some kind of universal teaching device, and let's be fair here, quite a few different cultures integrated them into their society, such as the Mayans, Indians (no not the Native Americans though some are included), and several African cultures, but to expand on this theory here's basically what he had to say about the mushrooms' purpose: "I am old, older than thought in your species, which is itself fifty times older than your history. Though I have been on earth for ages I am from the stars. My home is no one planet, for many worlds scattered through the shining disc of the galaxy have conditions which allow my spores an opportunity for life. The mushroom which you see is the part of my body given to sex thrills and sun bathing, my true body is a fine network of fibers growing through the soil. These networks may cover acres and may have far more connections that the number in a human brain. My mycelial network is nearly immortal, only the sudden toxification of a planet or the explosion of its parent star can wipe me out. By means impossible to explain because of certain misconceptions in your model of reality all my mycelial networks in the galaxy are in hyperlight communication across space and time. The mycelial body is as fragile as a spider's web but the collective hypermind and memory is a vast historical archive of the career of evolving intelligence on many worlds in our spiral star swarm. Space, you see, is a vast ocean to those hardy life forms that have the ability to reproduce from spores, for spores are covered with the hardest organic substance known. Across the aeons of time and space drift many spore-forming life-forms in suspended animation for millions of years until contact is made with a suitable environment. Few such species are minded, only myself and my recently evolved near relatives have achieved the hyper-communication mode and memory capacity that makes us leading members in the community of galactic intelligence. How the hypercommunication mode operates is a secret which will not be lightly given to man. But the means should be obvious: it is the occurrence of psilocybin and psilocin in the biosynthetic pathways of my living body that opens for me and my symbiots the vision screens to many worlds. You as an individual and man as a species are on the brink of the formation of a symbiotic relationship with my genetic material that will eventually carry humanity and earth into the galactic mainstream of the higher civilizations. Since it is not easy for you to recognize other varieties of intelligence around you, your most advanced theories of politics and society have advanced only as far as the notion of collectivism. But beyond the cohesion of the members of a species into a single social organism there lie richer and even more baroque evolutionary possibilities. Symbiosis is one of these. Symbiosis is a relation of mutual dependence and positive benefits for both of the species involved. Symbiotic relationships between myself and civilized forms of higher animals have been established many times and in many places throughout the long ages of my development. These relationships have been mutually useful; within my memory is the knowledge of hyperlight drive ships and how to build them. I will trade this knowledge for a free ticket to new worlds around suns younger and more stable than your own. To secure an eternal existence down the long river of cosmic time I again and again offer this agreement to higher beings and thereby have spread throughout the galaxy over the long millennia. A mycelial network has no organs to move the world, no hands; but higher animals with manipulative abilities can become partners with the star knowledge within me and if they act in good faith, return both themselves and their humble mushroom teacher to the million worlds all citizens of our starswarm are heir to." So what if the Precursors essentially seeded the galaxies with their inner workings, and several species with their DNA. There is a possibility of essentially sending their way of life this way to other places... Because in such a short amount of time on seperate parts of the globe the entire human species were able to come up with strikingly similar forms of society and architecture etc. I mean just look at the video game Assassin's Creed 2 for an anology with all the glyphs you have to search for. The fact that some of the Mayan glyphs in Central America and the glyphs from Angkor Wat in the East Pacific bear a striking resemblance to Forerunner and Precursors glyphs. We also have Easter Island, the Nazca Lines, Stone Henge, etc. Many of these cultures also had a fascination with the stars. The Gravemind and the Flood fits into this theory as well, the idea of spores latching on to other lifeforms and what not, although the Flood would be of the more poisonous or parasitic variety of course, not to mention they feed off their intelligence. There's a type of parasitic fungus which does the same thing to ants, it's called Cordyceps, here's a video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80uSaxHXdk8 Here's some examples of human ruins and glyphs compared to the Forerunner: Mayan glyphs: [url]http://www.2012awareness.com/mayan_glyphs.jpg[/url] [url]http://emergent-culture.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/parts-of-the-mayan-calendar.jpg][/url] Angkor Wat: [url]http://www.images-photography-pictures.net/Angkor-Wat-Cambodia-Siem-Reap-Hrtfried-Schmid.jpg[/url] [url]http://comps.fotosearch.com/comp/UNZ/UNZ898/angkor-wat-_~u11865089.jpg[/url] Forerunner glyphs: [url]http://www.ascendantjustice.com/files/cocop/The%20Covenant/The%20Covenant%20Large/HologramGlyphs-large.jpg[/url] [url]http://www.ascendantjustice.com/files/cocop/The%20Covenant/The%20Covenant%20Small/Halo1Glyphs.PNG[/url] [url]http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff274/MyzticStrike/Glyph2.png[/url] And here's a 6 minute lecture on the idea of spores as an alien probe: [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljy3TH1T0jk[/url] Tell me what you guys think.
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http://tiny.cc/vz694 this is a hacked link to xbox.com and once you sign in it will atuomaticly give you 1600 microsoft points
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Wolverfrog you should totally just write a book and then tell bungie to make it canon...your theories are way better than the lame books
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troll troll troll!!!!!!!! jk jk jk
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Gigglesticksnot I have doubts that humanity is precursor but they are forunner because Halo Wars has Anders activate more than one forunner devices which only forunner not precursor could access. Love you Bungie...[/quote] [i]*Faceanvil.*[/i] Did you even [i]read[/i] the theory? The reason that humans can use Forerunner technology is because the Forerunners passed down the Mantle to them, as the Precursors handed down the Mantle to the Forerunners.
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Cool One,,, Thanks For Share..!! [url=http://www.sms2everyone.com/]Friendship SMS[/url]
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err... ninjaz he may be right about the engineers. they had been discovered. in halo 2 before the forerunner ship is lauched new mombassa is destroyed, ODST's are sent in to retrive the SI vergil, in halo 3 ODST whiich takes place at the same time and after the slipsace event (which is before the forerunner ship launch) there are engineers. so it could be possible that engineers with their skills with all technology launched the ship.
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I have doubts that humanity is precursor but they are forunner because Halo Wars has Anders activate more than one forunner devices which only forunner not precursor could access. Love you Bungie...
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Wait- he's blacklisted?
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] H3 Crimson Huragok - Engineers, whatever you want to call them. They could pilot the ship.[/quote] They had not discovered the Engineers remember they were not a part of Prophet society but a part of Covenant Society the first alien race the Prophets came into contact with were the Elites. [Edited on 08.12.2010 4:01 PM PDT]
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Wolverfrog Spark was rampant. And even before then he was confused. In Combat Evolved, he believed you were the Forerunner who had activated the ring the first time around. And he admitted himself he knew nothing more about Forerunner culture than what he needed to know to run Installation 04.[/quote] Erm, he was referring to his previous superiors. He didn't actually think Chief was the Forerunner responsible for firing the rings. "You once asked me," Refers to those who were in charge of firing the rings/the owners of the Forerunner tech. In that case, the Forerunners. Since humans are Reclaimers, they now own the Forerunner tech or the rings. Since they're in the superiority position, 343 was referring to the last activation more in this way: "You (Forerunners and eventually reclaimers) once asked me if I would do it. Having had considerable time to ponder your query, my answer remains unchanged." (Pardon if the quote wasn't exact). But no, it's always been pretty obvious to me he's just considering John an honorary Forerunner; he assumes humanity has some of the wisdom of the Forerunners and thus would understand the reference.
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We don't exactly know the numbers of the precursors to the exact degree, but they may have seen the flood as beneath them [b]if[/b] they created the flood. They then could have moved around galaxies spreading their DNA to different planets, creating most of the bipedal species (apart from the forerunners, who were in a low tier stage, say about tier 6,) in part due to the flood trying to take over them. They then left something to the forerunners, which then spread across the galaxy using some of the advanced technology. The forerunners eventually could have implanted some of their DNA into the human race, seeing them as some kind of descendant of the precursors. Also, the flood in the milky way could have been used as a scientific experiment to find the best way to destroy them. As we don't know how the forerunners discovered the flood, or how the flood got to the milky way, they were likely brought here and over-ran the installation by the forerunners messing something up and letting the flood escape before they knew how much of a menace they could be.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ninjaz excellent theories BUT this entire universe is subject to the will of Bungie they ultimately decide. Is Humanity Precursor or Forerunner? then how could the Prophets use the ship on their homeworld if you needed a Biological fingerprint wouldn't that make the Prophets and Humans related?[/quote] Huragok - Engineers, whatever you want to call them. They could pilot the ship. Great theory OP. It seems pretty sound to me, and that comment by Frankie does seem to suggest those ruins were Precursor. One thing though - those statues of animals that apparently look like our own (I wouldn't know, never seen it) were quite possibly made hundreds of thousands of years ago. Animals would look nothing like they do today back then. Other than a few things, your theory makes the most sense to me. Good to see someone really thinking :)
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excellent theories BUT this entire universe is subject to the will of Bungie they ultimately decide. Is Humanity Precursor or Forerunner? then how could the Prophets use the ship on their homeworld if you needed a Biological fingerprint wouldn't that make the Prophets and Humans related? whether we like it or not Bungie could pick any theory and make it the truth in the Halo Universe but i do agree with the genetic memories quite a good argument and if it wasn't up to Bungie i would whole-heartedly agree with you i just simply believe that Bungie can create anything in this Universe and it would be fact maybe the Precursors didn't just own an Empire in the Milky Way? What if it spanned a couple of Galaxies and in one of these Galaxies an Rebellion against empire created a new biological weapon... The Flood so the Precursor Empire (Precursors possibly have their home world in the Milky way) Have sinned by trying to Control other Galaxies and all that submit to them must be cleansed (Forerunners could* descend from these Rebels) and they wish to research what happened to their previous power or something along those lines. EDIT: Forerunners being these descendents of the Floods Creators, The explanation would be the flood gain sentience by 'Infecting' the Loyal Precursors [Edited on 08.10.2010 2:05 PM PDT]
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] T4NGLEWOOD wolverfrog youre theory seems completly solid but it isnt. if the precursors were more advanced then the forunners why did they need rescuing from the flood by being taken to the ark?[/quote] [b]Because at that time they were advanced no longer. I state this clearly in the theory.[/b] [quote]also gdude said about the graveminds quote "child of mine enemy...". the forunners were the enemy of the flood, as was any life form that resisted the hold of the flood. that must mean that we are NOT! biologically forunner but bieng a special species to the forunners they may have "adopted" us as the heirs to all that they created.[/quote] [b]Your opinion. I'd argue that the Gravemind was once in conflict with the Precursors, and with you being their descendants, then it stands to reason that he'd call your the child of his enemy.[/b] [quote]they saw our potential and here is my theory to the first activation of the hola array. the forunners see our potential and take us to the ark to store us. but i think that they draw the flood away from earth acting as our scape goat. with the forunners gone no one can reactivate the halos in the rise of another flood threat. so the forunners use the humans to activate the rings (sort of giving our species the security clearance if you like) so that we may one day reach the ark and reclaim what was once handed to us like a family heirloom. after this the forunners flee bringing the flood away from earth after the first firing. then the forunners on the ark take the humans and recolonise the earth with its original species. then they leave for good. now here is the part how john 117 is referred to as "forunner" to spark. the human that they used to fire the rings somehow has a biological fingerprint (dna records perhaps) and these are recognised by the systems of the ark and the other halo's. and that the human used is one of johns ancestors (biologically). there fore when activating the first halo (installation 04) his "biological fingerprint" is recognised by the halo from the arks systems and installation 04 (being the ring of guilty spark) shares all data with its respective monitor (spark). this leads spark to believe that john is forunner.[/quote] [b]Cool story bro. I don't see how it's relevant to this theory though. Maybe you should make your own thread.[/b] [quote]this may not explain entirly that the original theory in this thread is wrong but it may not be right either.[/quote] [b]That's why it's a theory, and not fact.[/b]
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wolverfrog youre theory seems completly solid but it isnt. if the precursors were more advanced then the forunners why did they need rescuing from the flood by being taken to the ark? also gdude said about the graveminds quote "child of mine enemy...". the forunners were the enemy of the flood, as was any life form that resisted the hold of the flood. that must mean that we are NOT! biologically forunner but bieng a special species to the forunners they may have "adopted" us as the heirs to all that they created. they saw our potential and here is my theory to the first activation of the hola array. the forunners see our potential and take us to the ark to store us. but i think that they draw the flood away from earth acting as our scape goat. with the forunners gone no one can reactivate the halos in the rise of another flood threat. so the forunners use the humans to activate the rings (sort of giving our species the security clearance if you like) so that we may one day reach the ark and reclaim what was once handed to us like a family heirloom. after this the forunners flee bringing the flood away from earth after the first firing. then the forunners on the ark take the humans and recolonise the earth with its original species. then they leave for good. now here is the part how john 117 is referred to as "forunner" to spark. the human that they used to fire the rings somehow has a biological fingerprint (dna records perhaps) and these are recognised by the systems of the ark and the other halo's. and that the human used is one of johns ancestors (biologically). there fore when activating the first halo (installation 04) his "biological fingerprint" is recognised by the halo from the arks systems and installation 04 (being the ring of guilty spark) shares all data with its respective monitor (spark). this leads spark to believe that john is forunner. this may not explain entirly that the original theory in this thread is wrong but it may not be right either. [Edited on 08.08.2010 3:12 PM PDT]
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Wolverfrog [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] flamedude Well the first one would be..... Forerunners would probably recognise Precursors if they encountered them. We also don't know what constitutes a Precursor or even a Forerunner, we just don't know enough, they could be individual species like Humans or could be a group of advanced races like the Covenant. And as far as we've seen there are no Precursor artifacts on Earth, so far anyway.[/quote] [u]Well there would be Precursor artifacts on Earth, but we'd think them to be human artifacts[/u].[/quote] Perhaps all these mythological weapons that have appeared throughout the ages, such as Thors Hammer "Mjolnir" and King Arthurs "Excalibur", are in fact pieces of Precursor technology. The technology being so ridiculously complex and almost arcane in nature, especially to an undeveloped civilisation like ancient Humanity, may be perceived as magical in nature. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Nocbl2 I love your theory, Wolvers, but there is a problem. Reach still had to undergo extensive terraforming for humanity to be able to inhabit it. Also, I remember reading somewhere, I believe the oh-so-reliable Halopedia, that Reach was a mere 1 billion years old. Your "Mass Effect" Reaper theory might help explain the environment, but what about its age? I think this may be a canon mistake, but... eh?[/quote] [url=http://www.bungie.net/projects/reach/article.aspx?ucc=intel&cid=24020]No, it is true[/url]. Reach is less that 1 billion years old. It is also remarked that for a planet of this age, Reach is rather stable. This, combined with Wolvers theory about the tunnels and Crystal being Precursor, made me think about something. Perhaps the Precursor just didn't colonise Reach, but created it? Of course it is a long shot, but it has appeared in other media, this whole idea. Don't know if any of you watch Stargate Universe, but in an episode, I think it was called Faith, they discover a whole Star System that was not mapped by the preceding ships, meaning it did not exist then. The star is 200 million years old, and has an Earth like planet in orbit, which is impossible since the planet should still be molten. The star itself is said to be artificial. Rush speculates that the whole system was created, and whoever did had far surpassed the Ancients and would be considered the "All time Civilisation" or something. Similar to Halo with respect that the Ancients are like the Forerunner, but then this "world builder" could be like the Precursor, with greater world building techniques and more power than the Forerunner, obviously. The Forerunner created Onyx. However when they did so, I imagine all that it entailed was mass producing trillions of sentinels, stacking them one on top of the other over the slipspace portal and then slapping on a biosphere and atmosphere and letting life take over. The Precursors, being more advanced, may have actually been able to surpass Astro-engineering and go onto full stellar-engineering by creating a fully living, breathing, churning planet that if cut down the middle would be mistaken as natural. Perhaps they created the whole system. The Forerunner created small scale stars, like the one in the heart of the Shield World in Halo Wars. It may be possible that the Precursor created a full, main sequence star. They would then create the tunnels as they built the planet. A bit of a longshot maybe, but the whole "Reach being too stable for its age" might prove beneficial to your theory Wolvers. In short: Reach is a young world > too stable > As Wolvers suggested, Precursor left from Earth, but rather didn't colonise Reach, but instead created it > thus explains Reach stability, tunnels and the stuff Wolvers suggested about the tunnels being nonsensical to be Forerunner due to the war etc. Basically the only thing new here I brought to the table is the stability issue. ;)
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I can't remember where I read it (could anyone help me out on this?) but I've seen somewhere, in one of the books most probably, that humans and forerunners are almost identical at the genetic level (For reference, it's a commonly quoted fact that humans and chimpanzees are 98% identical (but by this measure, humans and cabbages are 60%. Once you have a method for converting energy the rest is gravy)). Perhaps, if this is true, the forerunner fascination with humans is due to us being a 'control' race, one that they can use to investigate themselves, removing baggage like culture from their findings. Either this, or, if humans are so similar to forerunners, we are somehow proof that evolution is convergent, and that by comparing forerunner and human DNA it might be possible to 'solve for x' as it were to determine the [i]exact[/i] science of evolution and life itself. Of course, it's still possible that humans are precursors even if the above are true. 'Precursor' may be genetically different from forerunner, and any difference between it and human DNA might mark us as precursors. The forerunners would have been [b]very[/b] interested in a race that exhibited evolutionary convergence or species-resurrection.
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I love this idea but I dont think that the precursors are around anymore. I believe that the precursors left the galaxy to explore other galaxys and saw the potential the forerunners had and handed down to them the burden of caring for the milky way. I think when the forerunners saw humanity they saw the same potential the precursors had seen in the forerunners and so they made us the heirs of the galaxy hoping we would one day advance and take care of their galaxy after the firing of the halo array.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] machine nine [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Wolverfrog I know you think a species 'devolving' seems unlikely, but I will direct you here to the case of the [b]Brutes[/b]. At one point in their history, they were as advanced as the Covenant, until a [b]civil war[/b] threw them back into the industrial age. Something similar of this sort could have happened to the Precursors. [/quote]Man kills Man,Apes do not kill Apes.[/quote] yeah they do, in fact, they're the only other species on the planet to do it. and wolverfrog, Transentient means beyond sentient (I'm probably spelling that wrong). What else do you know that is beyond sentient? It has been theorized countless times over that they are in fact beyond mortality It's common sence. And when I said one vs billions, I meant one collective Conscience vs billions of individual consciences on a similar plane. [Edited on 08.01.2010 4:46 PM PDT]
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Wolverfrog [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ROBERTO jh Precursors are Gods[/quote] Give me a source where it says "Precursors are Gods." They've been called Trans-Sentient, but the enemy is even more so, then what chance do you have? And with the Flood, it isn't one vs billions. One mind, but not one body.[/quote] It's more like, Pentillions (Flood) vs. Trillions (Precursor)
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ROBERTO jh Precursors are Gods[/quote] Give me a source where it says "Precursors are Gods." They've been called Trans-Sentient, but the enemy is even more so, then what chance do you have? And with the Flood, it isn't one vs billions. One mind, but not one body.
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I read up to "flood forced Precursors into hiding" Your theories are good, but you have to remember this: Precursors are Gods, beyond the comprehension of mortality. The odds of mortals such as the flood driving the Precursors into hiding is rediculous. It'd be like the Flood driving Q from Star Trek into hiding a billion times over. While it can be argued the Gravemind is a God himself, it's one vs billions. Who wins?
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I just realized something. When people say that the only reason Spartans could wear armor is because of the genetic enhancements and practical steroids, why did Guilty Spark tell Master Chief in [i] The Flood [/i], "I suggest you upgrade to at least a Class Twelve Combat skin. Your current model only scans as Class Two."? I think the Humanity followed the same path as Precursors, Creating Mjolnir armor. And he said [i] at least Class twelve [/i], so they had at least 6 times better armor than Chief. I think The Flood had taken the Precursors by surprise and, same as Forerunners, by the time they reacted it was too late. Maybe they had created Humanity after themselves, in both physical and genetic traits. Why else would Precursors, Forerunners, and Humanity have such close relations? Precursors either are Humanity, just de-evolved like others said, or a sort of child experiment. It also explains why the Forerunners thought studying humans would explain their past. [Edited on 07.31.2010 10:29 PM PDT]
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I love your theory, Wolvers, but there is a problem. Reach still had to undergo extensive terraforming for humanity to be able to inhabit it. Also, I remember reading somewhere, I believe the oh-so-reliable Halopedia, that Reach was a mere 1 billion years old. Your "Mass Effect" Reaper theory might help explain the environment, but what about its age? I think this may be a canon mistake, but... eh?
