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8/29/2009 8:26:26 PM
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Humanity are not Forerunners, but in fact Precursors? [Update 2.0]

All throughout the Halo trilogy, we have been led to believe there is a connection between the Forerunners and Humanity. For example, Halo can only be fired by a human, 343 Guilty Spark recognises humanity as "Reclaimers," naming the Covenant as 'Meddlers.' The terminals also imply a deep connection. Now, many have speculated that Forerunners are humans, yet more advanced. Some believe that Forerunners adopted us as their heirs. There are a fair few crazy theories out there, most, if not all, basically stating that humans are in some way descended from Forerunners. Now I approach you with a different outlook. What if humanity were not descended from the Forerunners, but what if they were, in fact, the fabled Precursors' last legacy? First, I'll dismiss the argument that 343 Guilty Spark says "You are Forerunner," to John-117 by saying this - Spark has always been confused, in Combat Evolved, he believed you were the Forerunner who activated Halo the first time around. In the Bestarium, it makes mention that all of Spark's observations are 'Under Investigation', whereas Tangent's (Monitor of Installation 05) observations are all confirmed. Now I know what you're thinking: "Wolverfrog, you nutter! They can't be precursors, that's impossible!" But is it really? Let's start by taking a look at what the word 'Reclaimer' really means. To recover, to reclaim what was once yours. Now I don't see why the Forerunners would attribute humanity with such a term, it wouldn't make sense if humans are supposed to be the adopted race of the Forerunners. However, assuming hypothetically that humanity are in fact the last remnant of the Precursors, it would make sense. A safe thing to assume would be that Forerunner technology is based off Precursor technology, much in the same way that the Covenant base their technology off the Forerunners. Now if that is the case, then it would make sense that the Forerunners would name the humans 'Reclaimer', to inherit, and regain all that they lost. In the terminals, the Librarian, love of the Didact, refers to Earth as Eden, and a place of wonder. Iris, the Halo 3 ARG, also has a little to say on this. [quote][i]The anomalous world is in a perilous location beyond the line. The secrets it holds must be preserved, plans within plans within plans. [b]The inhabitants; these unique denizens, must be researched. They may hold answers to our own mysteries[/b]. What irony that we discovered this treasure, only at the end of things. But what fortune that we still had time to save them. The thing we built on that world will vouchsafe their lives, but perhaps one day it will be used for its intended purpose. If the plan succeeds, and they are saved, it will be a good world. If the plan fails, and the adversary succeeds, it will remain an enigma forever with no one left to reclaim it. [/i][/quote] Now you see, it is talking about Earth, and the 'unique denizens' are humanity. It leaves you with the questions, why must we be researched? What answers can we give to the Forerunners? Surely simply being chosen by the Forerunners to carry on their work in the event that they perish does not grant us this amount of awe? I believe that Earth is a Precursor world, perhaps their home world. At the very height of their power, the precursors were the dominant force throughout the universe. However, due to unknown reasons, they vanished, passing down a mantle to their chosen race to continue their legacy: the Forerunners. However, what if the Precursors had [i]not[/i] been wiped out, but in fact, merely faded away, realising that omniscience was a terrible burden. A likely scenario is that the Precursors encountered the Flood, which would make the Flood much like the Reapers in Mass Effect; they wipe out cultures once they are advanced enough. The Flood could have forced the Precursors back into hiding, where they lost all their technology. Eventually, perhaps only one world, Earth, remained, and so eventually the Precursors had lost all of their knowledge and power, and became what we know today as humanity. I know you think a species 'devolving' seems unlikely, but I will direct you here to the case of the Brutes. At one point in their history, they were as advanced as the Covenant, until a civil war threw them back into the industrial age. Something similar of this sort could have happened to the Precursors. In the sixth terminal, the Librarian states this to the Didact. [quote]We knew this was a special place because of them, but unless you've been here, you can't know. [/quote] Now that seems to be good proof. She is calling Earth a special place because of [i]them[/i]. Just who are 'them?' Humanity springs to mind, but what if she was talking about the Precursors? It's a long shot, but it's an option, one that I believe. I've probably missed out a lot, I shall scourer the terminals again and make necessary edits. Thanks for reading, please voice your opinion. [quote][/quote] [b]Update 1.2[/b] (I had this all neatly typed up, but it got deleted by a posting error. So forgive me if some of this update doesn't make sense, it's late at night and I'm kind of tired.) Reach is situated within the Epsilon Eridani system, a mere 10.5 lightyears from the Sol System, and it's closest neighbouring system. Now, let's go with the idea that Earth was in fact, the Precursor homeworld. Once they had achieved space exploration level, it's likely the first system they would have discovered is the Epsilon Eridani system. The Precursors would have also discovered Reach, and probably inhabited it. Now let's jump to First Strike. Halsey and the Spartans discover a network of what they believe to be 'Forerunner caverns' underneath the ONI CASTLE facility. Inside these ruins, they discover a crystal, which can bend space and time. It seems awfully advanced, even for the Forerunners. Now, what if the Forerunners hadn't built the caverns and crystal, but the Precursors had? I'm not just thinking up random ideas as I go along though. What I find unlikely is that the Forerunners would have discovered Reach, but a few light years away from Earth, and have the time to construct caverns and house a ridiculously advanced crystal within, yet not discover Earth and humanity until a short time before activating Halo. Why would they waste time constructing such a complex when they were faced with extinction? My opinion is that the Precursors built it. Which is why, when Fred 104 touches the glyphs on the complex, he gets a 'Frustratingly familiar' feeling, as if he's seen them before. Genetic instincts perhaps, from humanity's Precursor ancestors? Simply becoming Reclaimers of the Forerunners wouldn't give humanity instinctive knowledge of how their technology works. And if the Forerunners based all their technology off of the Precursors relics they had discovered, it would explain why the Master Chief sub conciously could activate the various devices upon Halo. And, running along with this idea that Reach had been colonised by the Precursors, what if every UNSC Colony world which had mysterious 'Forerunner artefacts' were in fact, also Precursor? Perhaps humanity was merely following in their Precursors ancestors ancient footsteps, as they themselves first ventured into the Galactic beyond. [b]Update 2.0[/b] Oh Lord, this is all too perfect. The first Halo Legends episode, [i]The Babysitter[/i] was released, and it speaks volumes for this theory. The ODSTs have a mission alongside a Spartan to assassinate a Prophet at some unknown alien ruins. Cortez, the ODST squad leader, at some point in the mission briefing says: [quote]"The architecture is not Covenant design and it sure as hell wasn't built by humans. It pre-dates both sides."[/quote] As I was watching this I nodded along and thought, 'Forerunner'. That's what it pointed to right? Perhaps not. Later on when we actually see these ruins, they sure look confusing. It actually looks more like human ancient Japanese design than Forerunner. Naturally, everyone is complaining about it, saying it isn't Forerunner. And perhaps it isn't. Perhaps it is Precursor. Now let's say, back in the day, the Precursors built some structures like that, with that design. They colonise the planet their human descendants (Remember the greater theory) walk upon hundreds of thousands of years later. And they build these ruins. Now what if, in the Haloverse, Japanese building designs were inspired by ancient Precursor blueprints that the ancient Japanese discovered? What if those ruins on the planet in [i]The Babysitter[/i] are in fact meant to look like they do? Not Forerunner ruins, but Precursor. Also, the statues inside the ruins show what seem to be animals usually found on Earth. And who do we theorise do originate from Earth? That's right, the Precursors. If the Forerunners had built the ruins, then surely they would have images of their Gods, not animals. [b]In other words: [/b] - Precursors colonise planet, build ruins we see in [i]The Babysitter.[/i] - Precursors then become humanity after catastrophic event. - Halo is fired by Forerunners. - Precursor remnants (humans) repopulate Earth. - Ancient Japanese discover incredibly old Precursor building blueprints, design their buildings in the same way. - ODST squad and Spartan in [i]The Babysitter[/i] discover these ancient ruins, Halo fans cry out "But they're not Forerunner!" - Because they aren't. They're Precursor. [b]Last minute input: [/b][url=http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=18391672&postcount=243]Oh my God, Frankie just practically confirmed this section of the theory![/url] [Edited on 11.07.2009 3:54 PM PST]

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  • Hmmm, very interesting. It is certain that there are connections between both the Forerunners and Humans. I like your theory.

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  • dude high five, thats some intense stuff. My only thing to question is the idea that the flood put the Precursors into hiding by beating them, and then going away until the next population burst was in full throttle. The flood are a species or zombie that consume with an instinct to survive and to reproduce as every other species to ever exist has and does. It just wouldn't make sense to me for them to into waiting for more population, i think they would just consume until there was nothing left and then die out from eventual starvation. but seriously i love the thoughts and its an intense theory. cudos man

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Chief Goodwater Okay I kind of got the first part but as it went on with every other word being Precursors I got confused. This is what I got. So humans were handed down the technology from the Forerunners. But in a way humans are some how biologically related, which would explain why the rings need a human to activate them or how Master Chief "some how" knew which ancient holographic panel to press to open a door or elevator etc. Correct if I'm wrong. But since your theory is one hell of a brain explosion. What if Master Chief is a forerunner like Guilty Spark said. What if when the slipspace hole closed up and sent Master Chief to another side of the universe, it actually sent him back in time to the planet Onxy where he became apart of the forerunners, helped design 343 Guilty Spark and in a sense, helped himself in the future? Crazy isn't it?[/quote] ermmm first of all onxy is a shield world all the tech there was to protect every forerunner that hides inside it onxy is a Greenish planet full of life and forest, the ending on lengendary was a desert planet with little to no life on it. the planet that he could have landed on was the one from halo wars where the spirt of fire chases after the arbiter to rescue dr. anders also know as a flood planet. Also the slipspace drive can not send you back in time cause travel into the past is basicly IMPOSSIBLE, it basicly bends the universe so that you move faster then the speed of light. so the fate of master chief is the same fate as jorge since jorge did the exact samething that chief did just in different ways which leads me to believe that jorge didnt die but was transported eles where

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  • -deleted post- [Edited on 10.18.2010 5:26 PM PDT]

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  • Okay I kind of got the first part but as it went on with every other word being Precursors I got confused. This is what I got. So humans were handed down the technology from the Forerunners. But in a way humans are some how biologically related, which would explain why the rings need a human to activate them or how Master Chief "some how" knew which ancient holographic panel to press to open a door or elevator etc. Correct if I'm wrong. But since your theory is one hell of a brain explosion. What if Master Chief is a forerunner like Guilty Spark said. What if when the slipspace hole closed up and sent Master Chief to another side of the universe, it actually sent him back in time to the planet Onxy where he became apart of the forerunners, helped design 343 Guilty Spark and in a sense, helped himself in the future? Crazy isn't it?

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  • Very nice! Of course almost no one can prove you completely right, it is still a very nice theory and you looked through the facts carefully.. not many can prove you wrong either!

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  • I don't see why not. The Covenant discovered Forerunner technology and yet still worshipped them. The whole devolution thing could have been anything. It could be like Battlestar Galactica, or Stargate, or something else. It doesn't necessarily need to be the Flood, I just think that it's the most likely considering that the Flood pre-dated the Forerunners. Anyway, we know pretty much nothing about the Precursors aside from a few small lines in the terminals. I'm just hypothesising here, using conjecture and small traces of evidence. [Edited on 10.15.2010 12:07 PM PDT]

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  • Uh... The theory was good, however a big plot-hole in your theory was the cataclysmic event that supposedly "de-evolved" the Precursors. Sure it could have been the Flood, but there is no proof for that. Your analogy to Mass Effect was good as well however, if we don't know EXACTLY what caused the Precursor to disappear, then the relation/analogy with the Reapers is kind of non-existent. Also, I believe the Forerunners did not have actual personal contact with the Precursors, only Humans, which is probably why they worshiped the Precursors as Gods, so I doubt a lot of the relics were made with both a Forerunner/Precursor influence. This also explains how certain Forerunner technology can only be used by Humans. (Halo Rings, Index, etc.) Great theory though.

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  • I ended up believe humans are Forerunners but actually "devolved." Just a little too much evidence that Forerunner are human, without it being 100% confirmed. Maybe they were humanoid, or even a different species but with the same build and general appearance of humans. I was so into this back in the day lol

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  • How dont we know if the Forerunners went forward in time just after activating the Halo ring, therefore they could see the world after humanity had colonized and other what-not (idk if forerunners were that technically advanced enough to time travel, just a thought though) [Edited on 10.12.2010 4:33 AM PDT]

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  • This would then say that humans did not evolve unless the precursors were gorillas? Halo: King of the Apes?

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  • Awesome ideas! I'm a believer. Just seems to make sense in a Bungie way. Like all the puzzle pieces fit just right in the Haloverse. Great job!

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  • You, sir, are a genius. The part that you said that John used all of the forerunner controls instinctively, so did Dr. Anders in halo wars, she hacked the controls, and used the holographic controller ball on that same mission. You, sir, are awesome! :D

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  • I can remember reading somewhere that the Covenant made a radar that could detect Forerunner artefacts. The funny thing was that Humans show up as artefacts on the radar/ scanner thing. Because of this the prophets waged war on humanity, the knowledge of actual forerunners (or Precursors) being alive would tear the Covenant apart. So basically, Humans are either Forerunner or Precursor.

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  • Wow, that is actually a really good theory. Sir, I applaud you.

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  • Some great theory, good work all around. I'd just like to point out, for good and bad, that while Cortana is telling the story in Origins 1 and 2, she's going partially rampant (I assume) and parts of her story won't match up with the canon, from a visual standpoint and an actual story one. Quite a few discrepancies might arise from this, or some artistic license might be taken. May have been stated, and it may not really have any bearing. The Iris catch was pretty interesting though, major Kudos on that.

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  • Hi Guys- OK Wolverfrog, I like your theory, and it kinda makes sense. However, when Fred got that 'Frustratingly familiar' feeling-what if the humans of old (aka those on the Ark) had learned from the Forerunners? Maybe he recognized it because the Forerunners taught it to his ancestors. Same for 117. Everything else makes sense, though. Good catch.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Wolverfrog [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] T4NGLEWOOD wolverfrog youre theory seems completly solid but it isnt. if the precursors were more advanced then the forunners why did they need rescuing from the flood by being taken to the ark?[/quote] [b]Because at that time they were advanced no longer. I state this clearly in the theory.[/b] I thought that when the gravemind says "child of my enemey" he was talking to Mendicant Bias, a Forunner Created AI. [quote]also gdude said about the graveminds quote "child of mine enemy...". the forunners were the enemy of the flood, as was any life form that resisted the hold of the flood. that must mean that we are NOT! biologically forunner but bieng a special species to the forunners they may have "adopted" us as the heirs to all that they created.[/quote] [b]Your opinion. I'd argue that the Gravemind was once in conflict with the Precursors, and with you being their descendants, then it stands to reason that he'd call your the child of his enemy.[/b] [quote]they saw our potential and here is my theory to the first activation of the hola array. the forunners see our potential and take us to the ark to store us. but i think that they draw the flood away from earth acting as our scape goat. with the forunners gone no one can reactivate the halos in the rise of another flood threat. so the forunners use the humans to activate the rings (sort of giving our species the security clearance if you like) so that we may one day reach the ark and reclaim what was once handed to us like a family heirloom. after this the forunners flee bringing the flood away from earth after the first firing. then the forunners on the ark take the humans and recolonise the earth with its original species. then they leave for good. now here is the part how john 117 is referred to as "forunner" to spark. the human that they used to fire the rings somehow has a biological fingerprint (dna records perhaps) and these are recognised by the systems of the ark and the other halo's. and that the human used is one of johns ancestors (biologically). there fore when activating the first halo (installation 04) his "biological fingerprint" is recognised by the halo from the arks systems and installation 04 (being the ring of guilty spark) shares all data with its respective monitor (spark). this leads spark to believe that john is forunner.[/quote] [b]Cool story bro. I don't see how it's relevant to this theory though. Maybe you should make your own thread.[/b] [quote]this may not explain entirly that the original theory in this thread is wrong but it may not be right either.[/quote] [b]That's why it's a theory, and not fact.[/b][/quote]

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  • Could not the precursors have "seeded" worlds with their DNA? Forunners "Took Root" and advanced much sooner than humanity, then when the Forunners discover Earth, they find other humans at a much earlier stage of devolopment.

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  • Not sure if this has been stated before or anything, but reading your post this thought crossed my mind. When Guilty Spark says to John 117 "You are Forerunner", what if he's being completely honest and we just misinterpreted what exactly he meant. If the Precursors came before the Forerunners, then that means that they probably played the same role the Forerunners play for humanity. Guilty Spark was created by the the race we call Forerunners, but why would they refer to themselves as 'Forerunner'? It's an expression that humanity assigned to them after the fact. So if Guilty Spark were to search for the closest English expression equivalent to use in order to refer to a race that came before his own, what word would he find? "Forerunner."

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  • This theory is interesting speculation, I'm looking forward to future updates if any more details are uncovered.

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  • humanity has a direct link to forerunners cause in halo legends say that fore runners built halo when in sigma octanus IV covenant tried to get their dirty hands on some forerunners maps thats allowed cortana to fint the halo instalation 04 acordding to the fall of reach also humanity didnt have idea that they have the maps the forerunners left behind they seemed to be just a weird rock in order to know why the covenant wanted those rocks dr halsey oredered cortana to analise it even cortana couldnt`t know that those rocks where maps dr. halsey in last try to unveil the secret takes cortana to analize all the info gathered including the ruins under castle base in reach then the reimainig four members are directed to that place to get cortana out of there and get her to the pillar of autumn it leave justa a few hors before the real covenant fleet arrives reach pillar of autumn retourns to reach before jumping slipspacebecause they were requested to defend reach when all seemed lost and all the spartans under master chief command went KIA they enacted cole protocole using cortana as the only active AI onboard when cortana was generating the random escape jump she realized that she had an ancient map of the universe and therwas 1 zone highlighted on the map she uses that coordinates and vuala you just jumped from all previous events that take the master chief into halo CE

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  • It all falls into place. Everything makes sense. Here's probably how this will be revealed: The first dozen pages of Antediluvian, the first book in the Forerunner trilogy, will tell the story of Forerunners seeing the Humans for the first time. They'll be all like ''They look familiar'' and all that. Anyway, this would be a good reason why they passed the mantle down to the Humans, and not something more capable, like Sanghelli. I'll be talking about Sanghelli in a second. Basically, they find out that the Humans are what remains of the Precursors, which gives them the name Reclaimers. As you said, they reclaim what they have lost. Also, the Sanghelli also have a very Japanese-style culture. I wonder, do they know about the Precursors coming up with this idea first, or did they just randomly find some blue-prints? I think the former is more likely.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] dragmirex17 perhaps the precurcers could not alter themselfs to genetic perfection and changed into the flood the "perfect" race without war because they are one.[/quote] No they could, but why didn't they? Acceleration of eveloution could have had some risks,even for the precursors?

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  • perhaps the precurcers could not alter themselfs to genetic perfection and changed into the flood the "perfect" race without war because they are one. [Edited on 08.28.2010 8:32 PM PDT]

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Wolverfrog Now I know what you're thinking [/quote] Did Master Chief shoot six shots or only five?

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