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8/29/2009 8:26:26 PM
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Humanity are not Forerunners, but in fact Precursors? [Update 2.0]

All throughout the Halo trilogy, we have been led to believe there is a connection between the Forerunners and Humanity. For example, Halo can only be fired by a human, 343 Guilty Spark recognises humanity as "Reclaimers," naming the Covenant as 'Meddlers.' The terminals also imply a deep connection. Now, many have speculated that Forerunners are humans, yet more advanced. Some believe that Forerunners adopted us as their heirs. There are a fair few crazy theories out there, most, if not all, basically stating that humans are in some way descended from Forerunners. Now I approach you with a different outlook. What if humanity were not descended from the Forerunners, but what if they were, in fact, the fabled Precursors' last legacy? First, I'll dismiss the argument that 343 Guilty Spark says "You are Forerunner," to John-117 by saying this - Spark has always been confused, in Combat Evolved, he believed you were the Forerunner who activated Halo the first time around. In the Bestarium, it makes mention that all of Spark's observations are 'Under Investigation', whereas Tangent's (Monitor of Installation 05) observations are all confirmed. Now I know what you're thinking: "Wolverfrog, you nutter! They can't be precursors, that's impossible!" But is it really? Let's start by taking a look at what the word 'Reclaimer' really means. To recover, to reclaim what was once yours. Now I don't see why the Forerunners would attribute humanity with such a term, it wouldn't make sense if humans are supposed to be the adopted race of the Forerunners. However, assuming hypothetically that humanity are in fact the last remnant of the Precursors, it would make sense. A safe thing to assume would be that Forerunner technology is based off Precursor technology, much in the same way that the Covenant base their technology off the Forerunners. Now if that is the case, then it would make sense that the Forerunners would name the humans 'Reclaimer', to inherit, and regain all that they lost. In the terminals, the Librarian, love of the Didact, refers to Earth as Eden, and a place of wonder. Iris, the Halo 3 ARG, also has a little to say on this. [quote][i]The anomalous world is in a perilous location beyond the line. The secrets it holds must be preserved, plans within plans within plans. [b]The inhabitants; these unique denizens, must be researched. They may hold answers to our own mysteries[/b]. What irony that we discovered this treasure, only at the end of things. But what fortune that we still had time to save them. The thing we built on that world will vouchsafe their lives, but perhaps one day it will be used for its intended purpose. If the plan succeeds, and they are saved, it will be a good world. If the plan fails, and the adversary succeeds, it will remain an enigma forever with no one left to reclaim it. [/i][/quote] Now you see, it is talking about Earth, and the 'unique denizens' are humanity. It leaves you with the questions, why must we be researched? What answers can we give to the Forerunners? Surely simply being chosen by the Forerunners to carry on their work in the event that they perish does not grant us this amount of awe? I believe that Earth is a Precursor world, perhaps their home world. At the very height of their power, the precursors were the dominant force throughout the universe. However, due to unknown reasons, they vanished, passing down a mantle to their chosen race to continue their legacy: the Forerunners. However, what if the Precursors had [i]not[/i] been wiped out, but in fact, merely faded away, realising that omniscience was a terrible burden. A likely scenario is that the Precursors encountered the Flood, which would make the Flood much like the Reapers in Mass Effect; they wipe out cultures once they are advanced enough. The Flood could have forced the Precursors back into hiding, where they lost all their technology. Eventually, perhaps only one world, Earth, remained, and so eventually the Precursors had lost all of their knowledge and power, and became what we know today as humanity. I know you think a species 'devolving' seems unlikely, but I will direct you here to the case of the Brutes. At one point in their history, they were as advanced as the Covenant, until a civil war threw them back into the industrial age. Something similar of this sort could have happened to the Precursors. In the sixth terminal, the Librarian states this to the Didact. [quote]We knew this was a special place because of them, but unless you've been here, you can't know. [/quote] Now that seems to be good proof. She is calling Earth a special place because of [i]them[/i]. Just who are 'them?' Humanity springs to mind, but what if she was talking about the Precursors? It's a long shot, but it's an option, one that I believe. I've probably missed out a lot, I shall scourer the terminals again and make necessary edits. Thanks for reading, please voice your opinion. [quote][/quote] [b]Update 1.2[/b] (I had this all neatly typed up, but it got deleted by a posting error. So forgive me if some of this update doesn't make sense, it's late at night and I'm kind of tired.) Reach is situated within the Epsilon Eridani system, a mere 10.5 lightyears from the Sol System, and it's closest neighbouring system. Now, let's go with the idea that Earth was in fact, the Precursor homeworld. Once they had achieved space exploration level, it's likely the first system they would have discovered is the Epsilon Eridani system. The Precursors would have also discovered Reach, and probably inhabited it. Now let's jump to First Strike. Halsey and the Spartans discover a network of what they believe to be 'Forerunner caverns' underneath the ONI CASTLE facility. Inside these ruins, they discover a crystal, which can bend space and time. It seems awfully advanced, even for the Forerunners. Now, what if the Forerunners hadn't built the caverns and crystal, but the Precursors had? I'm not just thinking up random ideas as I go along though. What I find unlikely is that the Forerunners would have discovered Reach, but a few light years away from Earth, and have the time to construct caverns and house a ridiculously advanced crystal within, yet not discover Earth and humanity until a short time before activating Halo. Why would they waste time constructing such a complex when they were faced with extinction? My opinion is that the Precursors built it. Which is why, when Fred 104 touches the glyphs on the complex, he gets a 'Frustratingly familiar' feeling, as if he's seen them before. Genetic instincts perhaps, from humanity's Precursor ancestors? Simply becoming Reclaimers of the Forerunners wouldn't give humanity instinctive knowledge of how their technology works. And if the Forerunners based all their technology off of the Precursors relics they had discovered, it would explain why the Master Chief sub conciously could activate the various devices upon Halo. And, running along with this idea that Reach had been colonised by the Precursors, what if every UNSC Colony world which had mysterious 'Forerunner artefacts' were in fact, also Precursor? Perhaps humanity was merely following in their Precursors ancestors ancient footsteps, as they themselves first ventured into the Galactic beyond. [b]Update 2.0[/b] Oh Lord, this is all too perfect. The first Halo Legends episode, [i]The Babysitter[/i] was released, and it speaks volumes for this theory. The ODSTs have a mission alongside a Spartan to assassinate a Prophet at some unknown alien ruins. Cortez, the ODST squad leader, at some point in the mission briefing says: [quote]"The architecture is not Covenant design and it sure as hell wasn't built by humans. It pre-dates both sides."[/quote] As I was watching this I nodded along and thought, 'Forerunner'. That's what it pointed to right? Perhaps not. Later on when we actually see these ruins, they sure look confusing. It actually looks more like human ancient Japanese design than Forerunner. Naturally, everyone is complaining about it, saying it isn't Forerunner. And perhaps it isn't. Perhaps it is Precursor. Now let's say, back in the day, the Precursors built some structures like that, with that design. They colonise the planet their human descendants (Remember the greater theory) walk upon hundreds of thousands of years later. And they build these ruins. Now what if, in the Haloverse, Japanese building designs were inspired by ancient Precursor blueprints that the ancient Japanese discovered? What if those ruins on the planet in [i]The Babysitter[/i] are in fact meant to look like they do? Not Forerunner ruins, but Precursor. Also, the statues inside the ruins show what seem to be animals usually found on Earth. And who do we theorise do originate from Earth? That's right, the Precursors. If the Forerunners had built the ruins, then surely they would have images of their Gods, not animals. [b]In other words: [/b] - Precursors colonise planet, build ruins we see in [i]The Babysitter.[/i] - Precursors then become humanity after catastrophic event. - Halo is fired by Forerunners. - Precursor remnants (humans) repopulate Earth. - Ancient Japanese discover incredibly old Precursor building blueprints, design their buildings in the same way. - ODST squad and Spartan in [i]The Babysitter[/i] discover these ancient ruins, Halo fans cry out "But they're not Forerunner!" - Because they aren't. They're Precursor. [b]Last minute input: [/b][url=http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=18391672&postcount=243]Oh my God, Frankie just practically confirmed this section of the theory![/url] [Edited on 11.07.2009 3:54 PM PST]

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  • The Precursors populating Earth and Reach could explain why there are Moas on Reach maybe the Precursors transferred some animals from Earth to Reach and the Moas were one of the species they transferred, staying alive on Reach but dying out and becoming extinct on Earth this might prove something im not sure i worded it right though

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  • Hi, first, I would like to say that Forerunners and humans aren't the same specie, as stated in the Halo 3 Terminals and on Halo 3: The Cradle of Life. It is very unlikely that Precursors were the same as Forerunners, instead it is more possible that they had a connection similar to the one between humans and Forerunners, and that the Precursors wanted the Forerunner to continue with the Mantle.

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  • Yes, in fact, he believed John-117 was Didact, a Forerunner leader who is mention in the Halo 3 Terminals and is said to be the one who activated the Halo rings.

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  • :/ I miss the old days of this topic, discussion was much more intelligent and ambiguous back then.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] monkDAN we do know why they disappeared, they were loosing to the flood so they fired the rings but didn't get to the shield worlds. [/quote] It is never said that they didn't get to the shield worlds. They truly disapeared. Most of their race was killed by the Halos but many did escape and the upcoming Forerunner books starting in January are supposed to explain what happened to the Forerunners.

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  • we do know why they disappeared, they were loosing to the flood so they fired the rings but didn't get to the shield worlds.

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  • Pertaining to your theory, WF, if Humanity is indeed descendents of the Precursors,[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTjktNmt_Eo]this[/url] cutscene would make a lot more sense. Like you said, if the Precursors originally were from Earth, it would make sense that they would colonize Reach as humanity did. It would also explain the assumed-to-be Forerunner artifact in Halsey's lab. Emilie - "What is this stuff?" Halsey - "Knowledge. A birthright, from an ancient civilization." At first I took this to mean that it was a Forerunner artifact. But after reading your theory, I'm not so sure. Since the Forerunners discovered Humanity when Humanity was already in existence, how is their technology our birthright? You might say that the key to the Halo Rings is our birthright, well not necessarily. If Humanity was descendent of the Forerunners, then why did they discover us only shortly before firing the Halo Array? Technically, the Halo Array isn't a birthright so much as it is the gaining of technology given to us. This might not make sense as I am emotionally drained as I right this, but just my two cents.

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  • well carelessness, experiment, it all boils down to the ancients screwing up in one way or another! :-D

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] PLUT0NIUM 235 on another note, another science fiction universe has a similar story, in the stargate universe the 'ancients' (basically precursors, they have long since shed their physical being and ascended to a higher plane of existance) are hinted at being the 'creators' of the wraith and the replicators. the wraith were created by an 'experiment' i think at the beginning and evolved in a way that wasn't expected. they advanced to the point of being able to threaten their 'creators' and the lantean/wraith war began, later in the war the ancients created the replicators to combat the wraith, since the replicators could really be stopped, they are by all intensive purposes indestructable since they consume, replicate and spread. in the end the lanteans end up having to fight their replicator creations, so fighting both the wraith and the replicators to the point of their ascension. humanity are the 'children' of the ancients, they are infact early ancients...! very similar principle to the halo universe story arc if you ask me...![/quote] The Wraith were not an experiment. They were more or less a product of carelessness on the Lanteans part. The Lanteans allowed the Humans that they seeded on a planet to be repeatedly fed upon by Iratus Bug, which mutated into the Wraith, IIRC. Thus began that war.

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  • think this is the most impressive theory about the link between humanity/forerunner/precursor i have seen...certainly answers a lot of unasked questions, i don't personally think the flood can be stopped, look at floods in reality, all you can really do is slow them down or divert them, you can never truly stop them...! on another note, another science fiction universe has a similar story, in the stargate universe the 'ancients' (basically precursors, they have long since shed their physical being and ascended to a higher plane of existance) are hinted at being the 'creators' of the wraith and the replicators. the wraith were created by an 'experiment' i think at the beginning and evolved in a way that wasn't expected. they advanced to the point of being able to threaten their 'creators' and the lantean/wraith war began, later in the war the ancients created the replicators to combat the wraith, since the replicators could really be stopped, they are by all intensive purposes indestructable since they consume, replicate and spread. in the end the lanteans end up having to fight their replicator creations, so fighting both the wraith and the replicators to the point of their ascension. humanity are the 'children' of the ancients, they are infact early ancients...! very similar principle to the halo universe story arc if you ask me...!

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Gdude [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] P3P5I Agustus, I have one problem with your theory: how did the forerunners find a way to defeat the flood and the pecursors (who were far more advanced) couldn't? .[/quote] Then how did humanity defeat the flood, despite the forerunners not being able to?[/quote] we had the raw badass that is mastercheif, who is chuck norris' great great grandson

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  • the sins the forerunners did was activate the rings and killing all flood. that would piss me off if i was a flood

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  • [quote]Isn't it mentioned that the forerunner created the flood?[/quote] No, the Forerunner encountered the Flood when the Flood invaded the galaxy. [url=http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/Forerunner-Flood_War]Forerunner-Flood War[/url] from [url=http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page]the Halopedia:[/url] "The Flood entered the Milky Way galaxy at approximately 98,379 BCE, and initially caught the Forerunner military by surprise at G617 g1 using captured non-military vessels to penetrate local Forerunner naval blockades to descend and land upon Forerunner-colonized worlds..."

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Wolverfrog A likely scenario is that the Precursors encountered the Flood, which would make the Flood much like the Reapers in Mass Effect[/quote] This is the only section of your theory i'm unsure on - Isn't it mentioned that the forerunner created the flood?

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  • Wow. That's very well thought out. I don't think I would've ever through of humans as possible Precursors. I think the cataclysmic event the Precursors could have encountered is totally valid. Think of the the demise of the Roman Empire in Europe. The Romans had a ridiculous set of knowledge of how things worked, how to properly build, sanitation, etc. But when the Roman Empire met its demise around 475AD, Europe didn't reach that level of knowledge and ability until roughly the 1400's and 1500's.

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  • Win.

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  • Increadible insight, i hope to see this theory compleetely affirmed at a later date. The whole background into forerunner biology, history, and culture has been avoided for so long. Thank you for posting this, finally, someone who is willing to discuss the relationship between humans and forerunner souly on the merrit of the topic!

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  • I say they were wiped out, and God simply re-created them. Nice theory though WF.

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  • I love this theory. It will be interesting to see what information is provided in the upcoming Forerunner trilogy. Also, the crystal OP mentioned was indeed Precursor according to Halsey in Fall Of Reach. I read the book a long time ago and don't remember the details but Halopedia says that Halsey said it's Precursor. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] MegaMuffin16 What's a Precursor?[/quote] [url=http://www.halopedian.com/Precursors]Link[/url]

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  • What's a Precursor?

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  • De evolution? The only way for these theory's to work is if we completely ignore human evolution, how can Humans be Forerunner or Persecusor if we evolved from bacteria to begin with millions of years ago? That basically rules Forerunner out, no way is 100,000 years long enough to make us Forerunner in any way, unless somehow the knowledge is in our DNA in a way the Forerunners embedded it. We could be Persecusor in a way, but again how do you explain Human evolution? Perhaps they put the building blocks of life on this planet, but there's no way they'd come here then "de-evolve" in to Apes then become Humans. Oh and there's no such thing as "de-evolution" biologically at least, what might appear to be a backwards step is just a way of a species taking a form that is better adapted, so it is still evolution.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] P3P5I Agustus, I have one problem with your theory: how did the forerunners find a way to defeat the flood and the pecursors (who were far more advanced) couldn't? Wolverfrog, good theory (except the part about the de-evolution of the precursors).[/quote]maybe the flood weren't the cause of the fall of the Precursors, or perchance, the Precursors weren't willing to cause the extinction of all life. as for their de-evolution (devolution?) there are a number of ways this can happen such as the way the brutes blasted themselves back so far. Or have you ever read any of the Pern series? a colony of humans that intentionally dismantled all of their technology as to live the simpler life that eventually resulted in them forgetting how to build the technology, or even the fact that they were a colony. Or if you have watched Star Trek Insurrection the Baku choose not to live with technology even though they had warp capacity, add a couple hundred years you can see them forgetting their roots too. de-evolution is not that big of a streatch of the mind

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Wolverfrog Also, the statues inside the ruins show what seem to be animals usually found on Earth. And who do we theorise do originate from Earth? That's right, the Precursors. If the Forerunners had built the ruins, then surely they would have images of their Gods, not animals. [/quote] The precursors where the 'gods' of the forerunners, and we never saw the forerunners draw pictures of anyone on their walls... I'm not all sure with your theory, but how I see the human-forerunner relations is that the Forerunners needed someone to 'reclaim' their technology if there is another Flood outburst. This could still leave an opening for the humans to be precursors. I dont find the Halo-Legends videos as canon, and refuse to believe them (Halsey is younger then the Spartans.... Imagine that your mother was younger then you). But since you quoted Halo-Legends, I will do so also, how would a super developed race de-evolutionize in such a way that they would pretty much turn into primapes? If you look at the Halo-Legends video, you can see these furry creatures on planet earth which are humans. [quote][/quote] In Halo Legends the Elites (Shangheili) lived in mud houses. So, any type of architecture you see in these videos (like the Japanese buildings) does not make sense. [Edited on 10.20.2010 11:49 AM PDT]

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  • "It actually looks more like human ancient Japanese design than Forerunner." HMMMM....Maybe it looks like an ancient Japanese design because its anime and we all know who makes that!

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  • Wolver, you should update this with the information in the re-releases of the Flood (specifically the Librarian's report). While it doesn't exactly lead to the conclusion the Humans are Precursors, it definitely suggests that the Precursors had a large hand in guiding (or creating) the evolution of life on Earth.

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  • Hmmm, very interesting. It is certain that there are connections between both the Forerunners and Humans. I like your theory.

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