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#Halo

8/29/2009 8:26:26 PM
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Humanity are not Forerunners, but in fact Precursors? [Update 2.0]

All throughout the Halo trilogy, we have been led to believe there is a connection between the Forerunners and Humanity. For example, Halo can only be fired by a human, 343 Guilty Spark recognises humanity as "Reclaimers," naming the Covenant as 'Meddlers.' The terminals also imply a deep connection. Now, many have speculated that Forerunners are humans, yet more advanced. Some believe that Forerunners adopted us as their heirs. There are a fair few crazy theories out there, most, if not all, basically stating that humans are in some way descended from Forerunners. Now I approach you with a different outlook. What if humanity were not descended from the Forerunners, but what if they were, in fact, the fabled Precursors' last legacy? First, I'll dismiss the argument that 343 Guilty Spark says "You are Forerunner," to John-117 by saying this - Spark has always been confused, in Combat Evolved, he believed you were the Forerunner who activated Halo the first time around. In the Bestarium, it makes mention that all of Spark's observations are 'Under Investigation', whereas Tangent's (Monitor of Installation 05) observations are all confirmed. Now I know what you're thinking: "Wolverfrog, you nutter! They can't be precursors, that's impossible!" But is it really? Let's start by taking a look at what the word 'Reclaimer' really means. To recover, to reclaim what was once yours. Now I don't see why the Forerunners would attribute humanity with such a term, it wouldn't make sense if humans are supposed to be the adopted race of the Forerunners. However, assuming hypothetically that humanity are in fact the last remnant of the Precursors, it would make sense. A safe thing to assume would be that Forerunner technology is based off Precursor technology, much in the same way that the Covenant base their technology off the Forerunners. Now if that is the case, then it would make sense that the Forerunners would name the humans 'Reclaimer', to inherit, and regain all that they lost. In the terminals, the Librarian, love of the Didact, refers to Earth as Eden, and a place of wonder. Iris, the Halo 3 ARG, also has a little to say on this. [quote][i]The anomalous world is in a perilous location beyond the line. The secrets it holds must be preserved, plans within plans within plans. [b]The inhabitants; these unique denizens, must be researched. They may hold answers to our own mysteries[/b]. What irony that we discovered this treasure, only at the end of things. But what fortune that we still had time to save them. The thing we built on that world will vouchsafe their lives, but perhaps one day it will be used for its intended purpose. If the plan succeeds, and they are saved, it will be a good world. If the plan fails, and the adversary succeeds, it will remain an enigma forever with no one left to reclaim it. [/i][/quote] Now you see, it is talking about Earth, and the 'unique denizens' are humanity. It leaves you with the questions, why must we be researched? What answers can we give to the Forerunners? Surely simply being chosen by the Forerunners to carry on their work in the event that they perish does not grant us this amount of awe? I believe that Earth is a Precursor world, perhaps their home world. At the very height of their power, the precursors were the dominant force throughout the universe. However, due to unknown reasons, they vanished, passing down a mantle to their chosen race to continue their legacy: the Forerunners. However, what if the Precursors had [i]not[/i] been wiped out, but in fact, merely faded away, realising that omniscience was a terrible burden. A likely scenario is that the Precursors encountered the Flood, which would make the Flood much like the Reapers in Mass Effect; they wipe out cultures once they are advanced enough. The Flood could have forced the Precursors back into hiding, where they lost all their technology. Eventually, perhaps only one world, Earth, remained, and so eventually the Precursors had lost all of their knowledge and power, and became what we know today as humanity. I know you think a species 'devolving' seems unlikely, but I will direct you here to the case of the Brutes. At one point in their history, they were as advanced as the Covenant, until a civil war threw them back into the industrial age. Something similar of this sort could have happened to the Precursors. In the sixth terminal, the Librarian states this to the Didact. [quote]We knew this was a special place because of them, but unless you've been here, you can't know. [/quote] Now that seems to be good proof. She is calling Earth a special place because of [i]them[/i]. Just who are 'them?' Humanity springs to mind, but what if she was talking about the Precursors? It's a long shot, but it's an option, one that I believe. I've probably missed out a lot, I shall scourer the terminals again and make necessary edits. Thanks for reading, please voice your opinion. [quote][/quote] [b]Update 1.2[/b] (I had this all neatly typed up, but it got deleted by a posting error. So forgive me if some of this update doesn't make sense, it's late at night and I'm kind of tired.) Reach is situated within the Epsilon Eridani system, a mere 10.5 lightyears from the Sol System, and it's closest neighbouring system. Now, let's go with the idea that Earth was in fact, the Precursor homeworld. Once they had achieved space exploration level, it's likely the first system they would have discovered is the Epsilon Eridani system. The Precursors would have also discovered Reach, and probably inhabited it. Now let's jump to First Strike. Halsey and the Spartans discover a network of what they believe to be 'Forerunner caverns' underneath the ONI CASTLE facility. Inside these ruins, they discover a crystal, which can bend space and time. It seems awfully advanced, even for the Forerunners. Now, what if the Forerunners hadn't built the caverns and crystal, but the Precursors had? I'm not just thinking up random ideas as I go along though. What I find unlikely is that the Forerunners would have discovered Reach, but a few light years away from Earth, and have the time to construct caverns and house a ridiculously advanced crystal within, yet not discover Earth and humanity until a short time before activating Halo. Why would they waste time constructing such a complex when they were faced with extinction? My opinion is that the Precursors built it. Which is why, when Fred 104 touches the glyphs on the complex, he gets a 'Frustratingly familiar' feeling, as if he's seen them before. Genetic instincts perhaps, from humanity's Precursor ancestors? Simply becoming Reclaimers of the Forerunners wouldn't give humanity instinctive knowledge of how their technology works. And if the Forerunners based all their technology off of the Precursors relics they had discovered, it would explain why the Master Chief sub conciously could activate the various devices upon Halo. And, running along with this idea that Reach had been colonised by the Precursors, what if every UNSC Colony world which had mysterious 'Forerunner artefacts' were in fact, also Precursor? Perhaps humanity was merely following in their Precursors ancestors ancient footsteps, as they themselves first ventured into the Galactic beyond. [b]Update 2.0[/b] Oh Lord, this is all too perfect. The first Halo Legends episode, [i]The Babysitter[/i] was released, and it speaks volumes for this theory. The ODSTs have a mission alongside a Spartan to assassinate a Prophet at some unknown alien ruins. Cortez, the ODST squad leader, at some point in the mission briefing says: [quote]"The architecture is not Covenant design and it sure as hell wasn't built by humans. It pre-dates both sides."[/quote] As I was watching this I nodded along and thought, 'Forerunner'. That's what it pointed to right? Perhaps not. Later on when we actually see these ruins, they sure look confusing. It actually looks more like human ancient Japanese design than Forerunner. Naturally, everyone is complaining about it, saying it isn't Forerunner. And perhaps it isn't. Perhaps it is Precursor. Now let's say, back in the day, the Precursors built some structures like that, with that design. They colonise the planet their human descendants (Remember the greater theory) walk upon hundreds of thousands of years later. And they build these ruins. Now what if, in the Haloverse, Japanese building designs were inspired by ancient Precursor blueprints that the ancient Japanese discovered? What if those ruins on the planet in [i]The Babysitter[/i] are in fact meant to look like they do? Not Forerunner ruins, but Precursor. Also, the statues inside the ruins show what seem to be animals usually found on Earth. And who do we theorise do originate from Earth? That's right, the Precursors. If the Forerunners had built the ruins, then surely they would have images of their Gods, not animals. [b]In other words: [/b] - Precursors colonise planet, build ruins we see in [i]The Babysitter.[/i] - Precursors then become humanity after catastrophic event. - Halo is fired by Forerunners. - Precursor remnants (humans) repopulate Earth. - Ancient Japanese discover incredibly old Precursor building blueprints, design their buildings in the same way. - ODST squad and Spartan in [i]The Babysitter[/i] discover these ancient ruins, Halo fans cry out "But they're not Forerunner!" - Because they aren't. They're Precursor. [b]Last minute input: [/b][url=http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=18391672&postcount=243]Oh my God, Frankie just practically confirmed this section of the theory![/url] [Edited on 11.07.2009 3:54 PM PST]

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ImmortalJoshua didn't a Onyx sentinal state that the S-III was a "sub-species" and decided it wasn't a reclaimer? Or is this a reference that Spartan-IIs are reclaimers and S-IIIs are more of a "sub-species" of S-IIs. I'm most likely wrong[/quote] I believe it was because Ash (like every S-III) had artificial augmentations, most notably an illegal drug designed to affect the brain's frontal lobe to enhance combat. I reckon this was enough for the Sentinel to recognise it as a [i]"sub-species"[/i], even though they aren't.

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  • didn't a Onyx sentinal state that the S-III was a "sub-species" and decided it wasn't a reclaimer? Or is this a reference that Spartan-IIs are reclaimers and S-IIIs are more of a "sub-species" of S-IIs. I'm most likely wrong

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  • this is a good thery good work [Edited on 04.22.2010 7:28 AM PDT]

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  • one thing i dont get about forerunners is in ghosts of onyx there is ruins and a sentinel factory and a safe area from the halo arrays so why didnt some go there to hide while the halos were activated. and in one of the halo legends episodes it shows all the life coming out of pods containing there dna but there are no forerunner pods?

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  • I think this is all going to be revealed in the next game Bungie makes, which I believe will be a game about the Forerunners.

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  • This is a very convincing theory everybody. [Edited on 04.06.2010 5:30 AM PDT]

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  • I was just re-reading some of the original post. The part about the crystal and its location on Reach. Its even possible that Reach was in fact their homeworld. Earth and Reach are close and they're very similar planets. The crystal itself I've always thought to be definitely Precursor. I helps Chief and Halsey get to another system in minutes instead of hours. Its too hard to know whether or not the crystal has any kind of self awareness or intent, or whether it can simple be 'used' by its holder. Either way, its ability to bend space and time feeds back into one of the only solid things we've ever heard about the Precursors. They can travel between Galaxies. The crystal would make that much easier to achieve. Just my two cents. I'm no Lord Snakie or Wolverfrog. I'm not even an Agustus. (JOKES)

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  • You're perfectly welcome to believe that. I'd just like to say, however, that the idea of an 'evolved and older' human race has been present in science fiction a very long time. In many of these fictions, the idea of a branch of them devolving and reverting into what we now know as humanity has been explored too. This is what I believe is happening in Halo with the Precursors. They may not have devolved as a result of war, maybe they just destroyed all technology and knowledge as they knew what a terrible thing omniscience was. Regardless, this is just a theory which may or may not be true. Just a different way of thinking; a break from the tired old "Humanity are Forerunners" belief.

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  • First, I would like to credit you on your hard work to get this post up. Now I would also like to say I do not believe in this theory. Yes, the brutes have been brought down by civil war but that doesn't mean that their technology has been lost. With simple cooperation they can easily return to the space age tier. The same is true with the precursors. Even after centuries of batttling the flood why would they lose their technology or memory of the event. It just is not plausable. I think that the precursors may have thought of humanity as special and accelerated life on the planet in their own likeness. Thus, humans were given a stable thought process and a conscience-just like them. This is posible because they were able to accelerate life in other species. After the Precursors vanished, humanity progressed on its own until they met the Forerunners. The Forerunners then saw that they possesed a conscience and intellect similiar to theirs and also hought of them as special. Unfortunetly, they realized this too late as they had to light the Halos to stop the flood. So in fact, humans are like Precurosers and Forerunners but are not them. They are LIKE but not them.

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  • Well this theory assumes that the Precursors were forced back to their homeworld by the attacking Flood, and thus, the Precursors and therefore we are an enemy of the Flood.

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  • There has also been a theory that he Precursors created the flood and the Gravemind went rampant ( he could be an AI) killing the Precursors but not intentionally calling them an enemy. The Forerunners were an enemy to the Flood ( the Forerunner - Flood War) But who knows? It's just a theory.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Slim Jimmy 12 I would have to go with the humans being more Foreunner descent. Proof: As you start the level Cortana in Halo 3 the Gravemind will say 'child of my enemy, "why have you come?' Humans being childs of Forerunners. Forerunners being enemy of the flood/Gravemind.[/quote] Unless you believe that the Precursors once warred with the Flood, in which case that statement supports this theory.

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  • I would have to go with the humans being more Foreunner descent. Proof: As you start the level Cortana in Halo 3 the Gravemind will say 'child of my enemy, "why have you come?' Humans being childs of Forerunners. Forerunners being enemy of the flood/Gravemind.

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  • Now I am in no ways a Wolverfrog or Lord Snakie, but I have a theory which is just a guess really: What if this is part of a cycle? What if, for millions of years, Precursors and Forerunners, have been leaving the galaxy because of Flood attacks? Maybe in millions of years, Humanity will be a Tier 1/0 race, but is attacked by the Flood once more? And this time, the flood would ''win''. Then, Humanity would pick another race to pass the Mantle on to. It has to happen eventually.

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  • The only reason the cov. are attacking us is becuase we are the forerunners and if the general populance finds this out they'll find out that the who "journey" is a fake starting a civil war or plain out craziness [Edited on 04.02.2010 1:46 PM PDT]

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  • this is really deep in exploration of the unknown i congradulate you on your state of mind of staing stuff that is not normal too ordinary mans pschi (@)*!*(@)

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  • I am convinced that humans are Precursor decendents.

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  • When I got halo 3, I had never played or even heard of Halo, Halo2 or anything. I was exploring forge for the first time and i was just playing around with the weapons, until i saw the sentinel beam (i know this sounds stupid but) and thought-"Wait havent i seen this thing before." I then said to myself *Imma firin ma orange laser*. Then as i watched the orange laser left black marks on the wall i thought "holy *BLAM*". Later that day i went into theater mode and saw the monitor or 343 Guilty spark and thought the same things as the sentinel beam. Pretty Creepy. FOR ALL WE KNOW WE COULD BE PRECURSORS! HOW COULD WE TELL?! Please reply if you agree. P.S: I totally agree with you wolvefrog. P.P.S: The Forerunners and the Flood could be like Alien Vs Predator. The Forerunners created the Flood generations ago to show that they are worthy, then the Flood was wiped out(the halo rings were premature to firing and they were destroyed leaving no trace to the reclaimers) due to it becoming able to conjoin to make a Gravemind and becoming too powerful, but........ the Flood had moved to another galaxy to retreat. After the Forerunners Devolved they lost all history of this Flood fighting Culture and as the took responsibility for the galaxy the flood striked and as the forerunners had no knowledge of it or its weakness they went by instinct and wiped them out via Halo Rings, leaving a civilisation of Forerunner on Earth, this Cicilisation somehow Devolved and Re-evolved into humans. Leading to the Halo events where humanity found the Halo rings and also the flood (a single spore on the Forerunner keyship that escaped onto Alpha Halo and floated until it came across an unsuspecting covenant species and spread in the bowels of the ring and the covenant relased it upon finding out that humans had landed on the ring) and in the end destroyed it, or did they? The Flood could have moved back to the previous galaxy and could return when humans are the new Forerunners to the next Precursors. [Edited on 03.21.2010 8:58 PM PDT]

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  • Wow you might have just found out one of Bungie's biggest secrets.

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  • Coupled with the Frankie confirmation, this is genius.

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  • Head asplodes also* gurrrhhh

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  • Forerunners are for the win

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  • I thought that the Precursors accidently created The Flood and ended up fighting them, until they decided this galaxy was a lost cause and just fled to another. Dunno how that ties in with The Flood being extra-galactical though.

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  • I Love Bees is only semi-canon, and if I understand correctly, the AI being sent back in time is one of the parts being subject to scepticism. Also, we don't actually know for sure that the Precursors were wiped out by the Flood, but considering the fact that they seemingly vanished, and added to the heavily implied knowledge that the Flood far surpass the Forerunners in age, then it's pretty likely. And also, so far, 343's work has done NOTHING but support this theory to be honest. That's not me being arrogant either. Seriously, I've been meaning to do a partial update discussing the letter in the back of Halo: Evolutions, which further supports this theory. Origins hasn't really disproved it at all to be honest, unless you've seen more than I have.

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  • The original post was probably the most well thought out and accomplished post here on the non-game section of Bnet. Congrats and thanks for the good read.

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  • I am not sure if anyone else pointed this out, but there are way too many post to read to go and find one small thing. Anyways, I agree with your original assessment that the Precursors home world had to be Earth. If we assume that humans are the descendants of the Precursors. The reason why we can confirm Earth as the home world is because of genetic DNA that links humans to all sorts of different animals on Earth. We share tons of our DNA with different animals, like dogs, snakes, apes, mice, etc; therefore, it is irrefutable evidence that humanity (Precursors) started out on Earth, and that Earth WAS the home world. **EDIT** I would also like to ask my own question here. Has it been confirmed that the reason the Precursors disappeared was BECAUSE of the Flood? I read a few post asking why the Precursors, if more advanced than the Forerunners, couldn't find a way to kill the Flood off. If it has not been confirmed that the Precursors demise was due in part to the Flood then we can not say for sure rather or not the Flood were the only threat to this part of the galaxy. [Edited on 03.03.2010 6:47 PM PST]

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