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10/22/2015 1:27:38 PM
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Its neutral game is as good as the other subclasses. The fact that the subclass upgrades are focused on the super doesn't change that. https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/159316548/0/0
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  • It's neutral game is weaker than others' - especially Stormcaller which is what I'm trying to balance around. And while Birdman's balance sheet is extensive, he doesn't balance around the same ideal that I'm trying to (Everything being as powerful as Stormcaller in PvP and PvE both in Neutral game and with their super).

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  • It may be weaker, but it certainly is still very strong. 1HKO melee if it has a certain perk. Also generates Sunspot. Grenades are great. Cauterize is one of the best passive perks. Fleet fire is good when combined with Armamentarium and Simmering Flames. Increased Control. [spoiler]It really isn't that weak. People just don't realize it.[/spoiler]

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  • It isn't super weak, but it is in need of some love in neutral game to bring it up to Stormcaller's neutral game level. My suggestions were mostly focused around the end-tier perks as to limit the actual buffs and open up the class to more diverse build paths - Luckily, you can't get Cauterize's replacement [i]and[/i] the updated Simmering Flames perk. The only outright buff is Simmering Flames being partially available without super up, and Twilight Garrison's evade being available without the exotic piece. The Cauterize replacement shouldn't be weak, but it won't break HoS's power while giving some strong neutral game power and forcing Sunbreakers to choose between being a flame-dealing death machine or a tank. I thought the changes through like this when making it. Did I perhaps give too much neutral game power? Keep in mind I'm trying to balance it with Stormcaller with the suggestions - not bring it down to Y1 subclass levels.

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  • I'd be all for bringing up the neutral game. Just bring up the older ones too. :P

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  • That was the plan with my suggestion - make all subclasses strong in neutral game and in "super time" similar to Stormcaller. I just haven't gotten around to doing comprehensive passes on the other subclasses as they take more time due to the large amount of help they need. However I think my suggestions are great for balancing out the 3 Y2 classes (The one small Nightstalker tweak + Sunbreaker suggestions).

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  • My goal was to make every perk and super as viable as every other in both PvE and PvP. My benchmark, if I were to choose one, would be Nova Bomb (After my changes to it). Stormcaller is overpowered, and I don't want everything else to be with it.

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  • That moment I realize I'm actually speaking to Birdman. Sorry >_> So many replies I've done in the past hour that I stopped paying attention to names. I like some of your changes, but I honestly think subclasses [i]should[/i] feel powerful - otherwise we're just playing a normal shooter with some space magic thrown in for kicks. That's not to say that if we buff everything to Stormcaller's power we shouldn't alter the game to suit it. IE if it makes PvE too easy, up PvE difficulty.

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