I always enjoy reading your posts, but you confuse your theories as being Total Confirmation Once and For All, and that's not true. There is no confirmation once and for all that Jaren and Dredgen are two different people. I've read your posts, and you contradict things a lot and interpret things to your own slant. Which is fine, but it's not Confirmation. When Shin says "two men entered my world" he could very easily be speaking metaphorically. Why would he refer to Dredgen as Dark if Dredgen was originally noble, when Shin met him? "Same meat. Same bone. But so very different." You pointed out that Dredgen killed 3 people, then reference them as being part of their party later on. Dredgen himself said he didn't know those 3. Just met em. They even called themselves strangers to him, not people he would have been traveling with. This is also after he went Dark. But the fireteam you mentioned, where Jaren's last stand took place, would have been before that. Perhaps the most damning is simply, why did Jaren die? His Ghost was alive. Ghosts rez. That's canon. Jaren's Ghost wasn't destroyed. It found Shin when he was searching for Jaren's body, but there's no mention of a burial. Rather the Ghost spoke to him instead, which it had never done before. But why didn't it simply rez Jaren? Thorn 3 would suggest quite the contradiction to your Confirmation Once and For All. Why the Ghost left. Why it couldn't rez Jaren. Why it had been looking at Shin for days before hand, knowing what was coming ,what was going to occur. If Dredgen was truly a hero, as several cards point out, why don't we know his name? Why doesn't Shin ever mention it? Or Jaren? Why isn't there a single association with him in all these documented historical files? He was a hero that no one knew. A hero that no one remembered. A hero that has no deeds, no accomplishments. A hero without a name? Not much of a hero. Not much of a noble man. Or maybe we already know his name. After all, Dredgen Yor is not a true name. It's a made up name, as the card mentions. We don't know if Jaren and Dredgen are the same. We can theorize. We can discuss. But when you say "CONFIRMED ONCE AND FOR ALL" you're asking us to stop. We shouldn't stop. Because it's NOT confirmed. Because we DON'T know for sure. You can believe they were two different people, but your posts don't prove it. And you shouldn't tell people to stop the discussion, because it's far too interesting, on both sides, to simply say "It's done and over." Because until Bungie says otherwise, it's not over. Not yet.