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7/1/2015 12:17:45 PM
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1. It IS playable. The problem is that the range of competitive weapons is narrow.
2. When will they act? Who knows.
But I'd rather Bungie be SLOW to act...and take the right steps to fix the problems (better maps, buff ARs and FRs). Than act quickly and do things that will only make matters worse (nerf hand cannons).
The Crucible is in the situation it is in right now because Bungie caved to complaints about ARs and FRs....and nerfed both of them into the ground. Breaking the two weapons classes that kept shotgun rushers honest....and creating a power-vacuum at close-to-mid-range that exotic hand cannons simply stepped into, and are now dominating.
In a healthy weapon system----with the kind of maps Bungie keeps cranking out so far----They need to realize that auto rifles are going to dominate. You encourage the use of other weapons, by designing maps that allow people many opportunities to pick fights where those weapons can shine.
Maps like Rusted Lands and Shores of Time are good examples of such maps. Both offering lots of chances for players to pick the range that they want to fight at.
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Edited by GMRcris: 7/1/2015 5:20:31 PMHonestly I'm kinda glad the nerfed Fusion Rifles to the ground, those things were legit disgusting prior to their nerf. But you are right about map design, they all perfectly designed for the current meta. Then of course they add 3v3 maps, which play great for 3v3, but throwing them in 6v6? Yeah no, it just created a clutter and encouraged more shotguns, exotic hand cannons, etc.... Honestly the most fun I had recently in Destiny PvP was combined arms, where not everyone wasn't running a shotgun and where I actually had sniper battles with people. I have a lot of fun playing 3v3's still but any 6v6 mode as of late just boils to everyone blinking around, spamming shotguns or exotic hand cannons, it's barely enjoyable anymore lol.
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It gets repetitive. But Bungie needs to find the sweet spot between maps like Rusted Land and Shores of Time that are *just* large enough to be interesting and start to encourage a wide variety of weapons to be used..... ...and maps like Bastion that are so large that you have hop on your sparrow just find someone to fight with. Though it boggles my mind that Bungie keeps cranking out maps like Anomaly, Asylum and Cauldron....and then wonders why it has a "weapon variety" problem....
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Yeah I guess. They've cranked out maybe 1 or 2 maps that are good from the past DLC's. Pantheon imo is a pretty solid map, you can snipe, you can shotguns, it's one of those maps where you the player, dictate your engagements instead of the map basically doing it for you. It being symmetrical also helps. I feel like Widows Court is another map you can actually choose your range instead of these dictating it for you. Every other map released from TDB or HOW is just too terrible for me to comment on lol. I really wanna know their philosophy behind PvP map design, recently it just seems like "likes make it really tiny so everyone runs into each other every 2 secs". It's like a CoD mentality, arguably worse since at least Treyarch and Sledgehammer try to abide by the 3 lane system, which makes them semi competitively playable, no clue what Bungie is going for with their maps.
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I love Pantheon. For all the reasons you mention. I've never played Widow's Court, but what I've seen of it, it looks like a good map. But I hear that its asymmetric, so there is still a spawn side that has the advantage. I think Bungie is trying to keep the maps small, so that the pace of play remains fast and that you are always running into people to fight. But this approach worked with Halo, because Bungie restricted what weapons you had access to. So you had to fight with either whatever you had in hand....or whatever you could manage to take possession of. But it isn't working well with Destiny, because players are able to CHOOSE what weapons they want to fight with. So people naturally choose the weapon BEST suited for the kind of combat they are going to face. So ARs and FRs/shotguns dominated the early meta. Since ARs and FRs were broken, it is now hand cannons and long-range shotguns. ..and that won't change unless Bungie starts breaking more wepaons....or starts to design better maps with more varied terrain and sightlines.
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Slow to act? It's been 5 months since the last real balance.
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Yes. And I'd rather they wait another 5 months instead of doing something that will make things worse.
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Worse? How could they make it any worse?
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Nerf hand cannons. Pulse rifles will become the new OP weapon class, and shotgun users will become even more brazen. Because the range at which primary weapons can't kill them fast enough will just get pushed out even farther.
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Or instead of nerfing they just buff auto rifles and scout rifles a percent at a time until they find the right match. Maybe a percent a week until they find the sweet spot.
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Hand canons are fine. Thorn is definitely broken with it's 2 shot to the hand, 3 to the body and shield regen delay on top. TLW is glitched often applying the hip fire bonus when ads Just fix those 2. Other HC are fine
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That may sound worse to you but I would rather be killed by a pulse rifle at any distance then be sniped by thorn. So what you described would be an improvement.
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Edited by kellygreen45: 7/1/2015 2:14:57 PMNo it wouldn't...and your feeling about Pulse Rifles would quickly change. Because the meta would quickly shift to pulse rifles....and instead of being "sniped" by Thorn. You'd find yourself killed just as fast (if not faster) by weapons like Red Death, Three Little Words, The messenger, and Bad Juju. (Red Death kills so fast, that it literally forced me to have to start playing with max agility so as to avoid getting routinely two-shooted.) The situation with shotguns would get so out of control, that (unless he makes a mistake) by the time you see a shotgun rusher....he's already won, and you're a dead man walking. Because your pulse rifle (and now hand cannon) simply wont' be able to kill fast enough to keep him from getting into shotgun range. You'll have hopped out of the frying pan, and straight into the fire.
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Not an improvement in your mind, obviously. But yeah still better than what it is now. I have been playing video games for 32 years and played a ton of games with PvP and Destiny has the worst of em all, in my opinion.
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1. I've been playing video games for nearly 40 years. 2. I was a very good Titanfall player before coming to Destiny....and Destiny's situation is bad, because Bungie keeps trying to fix a MAP DESIGN problem by altering weapon performance. The reason why I mention Titanfall is because Respawn (in Titanfall) solved the problem that Bungie seems clueless as to how to manage. How to create a weapon system that PvP players percieve as "balanced" despite the weapons all performing very differently. Bungie keeps tyring to tweak weapon performance, and keeps making matters worse and weapon variety narrower. Respawn solved the problem by making maps BIGGER, with LOTS of long sight lines, and lots of vertical levels. As a result you created a nice dynamic balance. 1. You had powerful, long-range single shot-and sniper rifles. The open nature of many maps and lots of vertical levels give players lots of chances to use these weapons effectively. But player mobility made them hard targets. 2. Lots of roof tops and windows gave ample opportunity for mid-range fights by shooting from window to window and rooftop to rooftop...as well as down at people on the streets. 3. You also had lots of chances for close range fights inside of buildings and for control of hardpoints. But where Titanfall really excelled, was that the map design exacted a PENALTY for whatever weapon you chose. Yeah, you could equip a powerful shotgun with the all the impact and twice the range of Felwinters. But the second you stepped outdoors, you were going to be at a (range) disadvantage in almost every fight. As people with longer range weapons would see you coming over the horizon. People with mid-range weapons had to work hard to control distaance. To keep SMGs and shotguns back....and keep people with single-shot and sniper rifles close. So Titanfall becomes a game of motion, mobility, and creating mis-matches: Can I force you to fight at the range where I have the advantage before you can force me to fight at the range where you have the advantage. This is the only SUSTAINABLE system of "balance" that is possible with the type of system that Bungie wishes to create....and you create it by limiting weapon RANGE (not damage) and by intelligent map design.
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Like most PvP games map design will make a big difference in how the gun play works. But the multiplayer in this game is just not fun. Battlefield, Halo, even the early COD games had good multiplayer. Not Destiny.
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Normally i'm willing to wait, like with HOW. But thats 5 months i haven't been able to use auto rifles. People say nlb is the worst but auto rifles are not usable.
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It is frustrating. But if they act soon it'll be to nerf hand cannons, not buff ARs.
