Time to have a frank and honest conversation about this exotic. Let's take the issues one at a time. 1."I would survive my fights with Thorn if it weren't for that stupid poison DoT perk!" Hold up right there, if you're honest for a moment you have to admit the truth: if it were any other hand canon (or pulse rifle for that matter) you would have been dead already... period. Red Death, Hawkmoon and many other guns will kill you the moment the second/third headshot/burst lands, not needing the DoT perk to finish the job. Be thankful the full damage wasn't given to the initial shot, the fact that part of Thorn's damage is cut out and saved for the DoT perk is giving you time to fire a few more shots. 2. "It is too versatile and shouldn't be able to kill me at close and mid-range." Let's break this down: if you have a shotgun and keep getting killed by Thorn that simply means you are too far away to use a shotgun properly. Change your strategy and stop trying to chase him into range, you're gonna die. Hand canons and scout rifles have very high impact, that means each single shot fired will hit hard. A good Thorn user may pop out, shoot once (or twice) and duck back into cover to keep out of the line of your auto-rifle fire... rinse, repeat, you're dead. The other main reason I see people getting killed (this is actually THE reason) they pigheadedly charge me even when they know they're already half health. STOP IT. Duck back and find cover/recharge. It's your own dang fault you don't know how to use your surroundings as a shield. 3. "The clip size is too big and Thorn users just spray and pray." Let's talk about that shall we? At 9 shots, assuming you are flawless and land every shot (combo of body and head) that means you can engage 3 players before having to reload. Hawkmoon kills even faster and has 13 shots. Pulse rifles can kill in 2 bursts meaning guns like Red Death can engage the same 3 targets with several being body shots. Shotguns are a one shot kill if used right and have 4-6 shots on average. Seeing a pattern here? The last observation is that 90+% of those who complain about Thorn don't even have it. The irony is that when they finally get it they love it and start defending it. Hopefully you guys can come to your senses and realize that you're screaming for a nerf on one of the only truly worthwhile bounty exotics in the game. It's fun to use but far from the magic weapon you make it out to be. The reality is those using it are just better at PvP, so stick with it and learn the skills just as you had to do in PvE. This concludes today's lecture on crying and factual debate. ;) Edit: May I make one last comparison and observation? Every single person who complains about Thorn or any other weapon simply fails to understand the reality that this game is like rock, paper, scissors. They keep using paper and get angry when scissors beats them every single time. Stop complaining, stop doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. If you keep getting taken out by scissors (Thorn) then for goodness sake put down the paper and go pick up a rock. :)