I was referring to men who complain about women. I can't speak for the comments.

I was just going off of the comments, I haven't read anything from you yet which suggested that.

I am a woman and I think it may exist but I think it's a little complicated. I posted about this elsewhere but the short version is, if you want to ask a girl out, ask her out. If you want to be her friend, be her friend. Don't be her friend because you are afraid to ask her out. Confidence is attractive in men and that is NOT confident. And the fake friendship will collapse at some point which will surprise and irritate her. She's dating someone so you have to wait to ask her out, you say - well, be friendly but don't try to "be her friend" while you wait. If you ask, yes she might reject you, but if you become her friend, she WILL reject you in the end (or you'll just give up). I think guys approach it from the idea that "look at my picture, I am as handsome as her boyfriend, I am the same height, I dress about the same, we talk all the time so why not me?" But for girls, the boyfriend asked her out. You did not. So the boyfriend automatically wins. You're not in a friend zone because girls have some oddity that causes us to not be interested in guys we are friends with, you are in it because you don't have the #1 trait we look for, confidence. I am not trying to be mean but I think the younger guys realize this the better for everybody! As with everything, there are exceptions!

Very sound advice, but I would never pursue a woman already in a relationship, personally. Man or woman, if you are able to steal someone away from a relationship, what's to say the same thing won't happen to you when someone else pursues your partner as you once did?

There is a girl who posts here who got "stolen away" from a relationship and is happily married so I think it's hard to give one size fits all answers on that stuff, people are complicated, relationships are complicated. In general I agree with you, I don't try to break people up. I would just say, if possible make your position plain, like "I would ask you out if you weren't with Jonathan" (or whatever name). I mean once or twice not constantly. And whether you say something like that or not, be nice to her, but don't try to be at her house watching Say Yes To The Dress lol.