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Edited by aceebro:
4/1/2015 7:20:39 AM
107
On Destiny vs. The E3 2013 Demo
[b]Preface:[/b] I would like to start off by saying that this is likely going to be a big wall of text. There will be a conclusion at the bottom summing up my main points, however. We have all (likely) seen people on here whine and complain about the E3 2013 Demo, and how what it seemed to be then has differentiated itself from what the game is now. These are often met with things such as "It's the same game only with less polish", and "The only difference I could see was a mixed subclass"; however, I believe that the people making these remarks are merely viewing things from the mechanics side of gameplay, while those talking about the video are looking at the small differences, causing a shift in the feel of the game. My goal today is to go through the video, and find those small changes, and to help articulate the disappointment that various people feel, without simply stating "Oh look at how different everything is!". Let us begin.
[b]0:07[/b]- This opening shot holds an absolutely beautiful landscape. To be honest, I haven't seen one that beautiful in game yet. They all seem to be less detailed, or cut off earlier. In fact, in the full game, the area where this is has been clogged up with fog, and the landscape as seen here is nonexistent.
[b]1:04[/b]- This is our hero of the video. He is not teleporting in from his personal ship, but he is jumping down from what appears to be a carrier ship. This does two things: him jumping down simply looks more heroic than teleporting in, and we [b]only[/b] teleport down in the full game; the ship appears to be a military carrier of some kind. The ship being a carrier makes implications that rather than being some lone wolf, he is actually [b]part[/b] of something. We don't get that in the full game, we're simply on our own the whole time.
[b]1:25[/b]- At least they cut the annoying narrators in the full release.
[b]3:42[/b]- Here we meet the ghost. Rather than his boring, flat lines (and delivery of lines), we meet a sassy, more animated ghost.
[b]4:35[/b]- This part is so cool! The lights come on, it reveals this massive area, the ghost says a line indicating that enemies are probably inbound. This kind of stuff rocks. Shame it was [i]nowhere to be found[/i] within the final release.
[b]4:45[/b]- This is where we start to see our first gunplay. Throughout the demo we will see more, and it will look nearly identical to final release. The only real differences are minor changes in what pulse rifles look like, how subclasses, originally called focuses (they should have stuck with focuses), are set up, and the secondary handcannon.
[b]4:45[/b]- See those shanks that came out of nowhere shooting dinklebot? See the enemies on the far side rushing out of hiding? The shank that retreats when its friends are all dead? A few seconds after that, an enemy jumps down from the ceiling! There is almost none of that in the full game. Yeah, it happens a couple times. The fallen at the beginning that you have to (or at least are recommended to) melee, and the cabal all jumping out of their dropships during the exclusion zone, along with a few other, even more forgettable, occasions I'm sure. But rather than making this [enemies doing interesting stuff] a common theme in the game, Bungie decided to make enemies come in endless streams from magic doors.
[b]6:25-6:53[/b]- So, either bosses used to be an absolute joke, or that handcannon was shooting Gjallarhorn shots. Either way, I'm glad they upped the difficulty.
[b]6:53[/b]- Rixis dropped Thunderlord. He dropped Thunderlord. He did not drop an engram, that was later decrypted into Thunderlord. He was not part of a nightfall or something where at the end screen Thunderlord popped into the player's inventory. Rixis actually dropped the gun onto the ground, then it was picked up. I'm aware that this seems like a small detail, but it really isn't. Getting loot in the game is one of the most important things. And it is so unsatisfying. It is really important, for most people, that people see what they got. They get a visual cue that they should be excited for. In game that just isn't there. It also implies that by killing certain enemies you will, if you're lucky, get certain exotics. The only places where that's true is Atheon and Crota. Besides that, it's any exotic from anywhere. The loot drop/lootsplosion mechanics are important to the feel of the game, and even compared to their pre-alpha, Bungie dropped the ball.
[b]9:06[/b]- OH MY GOD. DID YOU SEE THAT? THAT WAS INCREDIBLE!!!! The sky got dark, then the ship warped in, then there was a big shock wave and the tower fell over, then there were more ships, and IT WAS AWESOME!! Now here's my question: [b]Where did things like that go[/b]? Those things make the world feel [i]alive[/i]. It makes it feel like when you're doing a public event you are actually doing something, not just completing a diversion for some marks or a bounty. It was this moment that truly started to sell me on the game almost two years ago. What we got instead was beyond disappointing.
[b]11:18[/b]- You see that? That's the carrier! Really heavily implying that we are part of something, once again.
[b]11:24[/b]- Oh look! Epic speaker speech! "War is coming. We barely survived the last. We must regain the offensive." These kinds of things are important. These kinds of things are [u]really[/u] important. They explain what's going on. They explain why we have to fight how we do. They give the narrative a driving force. [b]The closest thing we got to that was some sort of sad speaker speech about how he could tell us X, Y or Z[/b]. Moreover, notice how the speaker was on a balcony with the player. That implies that the player is important. Some sort of serious military force that's talking directly with somebody who is very clearly a leader of humanity. We got nothing like that in the full game.
[b]11:30[/b]- The Vex, Hive, and Cabal appear to be way more aggressive on here than the full game. I'll simply chalk that up to advertising though.
[b]11:36[/b]- Okay, first off let me say that I'm a very auditory person. When I say very auditory person, I mean I almost broke into tears when I heard the tune that started playing here for the first time. Anyways, what happened to this whole section? This had such heavy implications for the story. "Why is the city breathing down my neck?" Oh, so what you're saying is that the city is some sort of authority, and is trying to impose justice on some rogue or something. Not only that, but they have the structure and government to actually breathe down somebody's neck. Cool. "Out here in the wild, this is how we talk." Implies that this whole thing is a big jungle to be explored. It's not.
[b]11:46[/b]- Beautiful scenery shots implying that the worlds are larger than they are.
[b]11:51[/b]- Saturn. There is no Saturn.
[b]11:55[/b]- Oh look! There's the speaker telling us how important we are! How vital everything is! How we will [b]become legend[/b] (the game's catchphrase, that isn't even said in game) and that if we fail we're all screwed. This was such an awesome moment in the trailer. I can almost assure you that with this final moment, 99% of everybody on the fence of whether or not they wanted the game fell to the want side. Shame that in the full game there are already "guardians fighting on Mars and Venus", and we're just another member of the horde.
[b]Conclusion:[/b] In many ways, the game is the same. The gunplay and, more basic, enemy mechanics remain essentially unchanged. That is a definite plus, as Destiny has some of the tightest gunplay and best normal enemy encounters that I've ever seen in a game. Unfortunately, the game doesn't feel like the trailer. It doesn't feel big, epic, alive. It feels like a flat soda. It's still sweet, sure, but it's missing that feel to make it into something that's really great.
English
#Destiny
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2 RepliesThey included everything from the e3 thing in the first mission except for the whole friends dropping in, and replacced it with "You're back from the dead". This is all in the first mission, but in the e3 demo, it was actually a patrol mission. Dinklebot is only sassy in the first mission. So yah.
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2 RepliesThis is ........... ?
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15 RepliesIts get real good about 15 mins in when he starts explaining why it was all cut. I ADVISE ANYONE WHO CARES TO WATCH THIS VIDEO.
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In the original Star Wars, Yoda was going to be played by a live monkey with a walking cane. Quake was going to be about an adventurer running around Incan ruins with a sword. Halo was originally an RTS for the MAC.
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Yes, let's compare a vertical slice of the game developed specifically for a cinematic trailer, and pretend like the whole game was originally like that but they deliberately and arbitrarily changed it.... Get real. Sure they toned down the graphical effects (this is expected with the underwhelming "next-gen" hardware) , and sure they programmed a Thunderlord drop at level 1 (seriously? You want those kind of exotics to drop at level one from trash lobs?).... But it's the same game it always ever was. There is no conspiracy here. Take off your tinfoil hat. You fell for hype, and that's your own fault. Others didn't give a shit about hype, picked you the game and enjoy it for what it is, not for what they think it should have been. Bungie is doing great things with Destiny - things you don't see with any other console game developers. If you can't see that, then go play something else and stop spreading your filth around the forums. They are disgusting enough already.
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The secondary hand cannons will be the new sidearms
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Watching this trailer made me realize it has more content than the actual game
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3 RepliesReply for later please!
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1 ReplyComment so I can come back
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Great job, tragically we let this happen and paid for the Season pass, which does not even include all DLC´s, We got fuxed after we got fuxed
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5 Replies[quote]0:07- This opening shot holds an absolutely beautiful landscape. To be honest, I haven't seen one that beautiful in game yet. They all seem to be less detailed, or cut off earlier. In fact, in the full game, the area where this is has been clogged up with fog, and the landscape as seen here is nonexistent[/quote]. Ok, so a prerendered vista was not included in the game. That does not appear to be playable space. [quote]1:04- This is our hero of the video. He is not teleporting in from his personal ship, but he is jumping down from what appears to be a carrier ship. This does two things: him jumping down simply looks more heroic than teleporting in, and we only teleport down in the full game; the ship appears to be a military carrier of some kind. The ship being a carrier makes implications that rather than being some lone wolf, he is actually part of something. We don't get that in the full game, we're simply on our own the whole time.[/quote] The first of really only 2 real differences. Not sure why the ship drop offs were cut. I have heard it was because the old machines couldn't handle it. Who knows. [quote]1:25- At least they cut the annoying narrators in the full release.[/quote] A positive. [quote]3:42- Here we meet the ghost. Rather than his boring, flat lines (and delivery of lines), we meet a sassy, more animated ghost.[/quote] This was a source of much controversy. Hopefully they spice it up a little in Comet. [quote]4:35- This part is so cool! The lights come on, it reveals this massive area, the ghost says a line indicating that enemies are probably inbound. This kind of stuff rocks. Shame it was nowhere to be found within the final release.[/quote] Isn't this the same thing that happens in the very first mission? [quote]4:45- This is where we start to see our first gunplay. Throughout the demo we will see more, and it will look nearly identical to final release. The only real differences are minor changes in what pulse rifles look like, how subclasses, originally called focuses (they should have stuck with focuses), are set up, and the secondary handcannon.[/quote] No major changes. [quote]4:45- See those shanks that came out of nowhere shooting dinklebot? See the enemies on the far side rushing out of hiding? The shank that retreats when its friends are all dead? A few seconds after that, an enemy jumps down from the ceiling! There is almost none of that in the full game. Yeah, it happens a couple times. The fallen at the beginning that you have to (or at least are recommended to) melee, and the cabal all jumping out of their dropships during the exclusion zone, along with a few other, even more forgettable, occasions I'm sure. But rather than making this [enemies doing interesting stuff] a common theme in the game, Bungie decided to make enemies come in endless streams from magic doors.[/quote] Thralls come out of pits and over the sides of ledges. Most enemies can't just appear. Fallen need a door to run through. Ships appear to drop off enemies now. It does appear the shank AI was decreased. [quote]6:25-6:53- So, either bosses used to be an absolute joke, or that handcannon was shooting Gjallarhorn shots. Either way, I'm glad they upped the difficulty.[/quote] No complaints here. [quote]6:53- Rixis dropped Thunderlord. He dropped Thunderlord. He did not drop an engram, that was later decrypted into Thunderlord. He was not part of a nightfall or something where at the end screen Thunderlord popped into the player's inventory. Rixis actually dropped the gun onto the ground, then it was picked up. I'm aware that this seems like a small detail, but it really isn't. Getting loot in the game is one of the most important things. And it is so unsatisfying. It is really important, for most people, that people see what they got. They get a visual cue that they should be excited for. In game that just isn't there. It also implies that by killing certain enemies you will, if you're lucky, get certain exotics. The only places where that's true is Atheon and Crota. Besides that, it's any exotic from anywhere. The loot drop/lootsplosion mechanics are important to the feel of the game, and even compared to their pre-alpha, Bungie dropped the ball.[/quote] If they have problems rendering the vault items, this was also likely cut for last gen. Maybe we should be complaining about last gen more? Also, deathsinger has an increased chance of exotics. 3/8 raid checkpoints. [quote]9:06- OH MY GOD. DID YOU SEE THAT? THAT WAS INCREDIBLE!!!! The sky got dark, then the ship warped in, then there was a big shock wave and the tower fell over, then there were more ships, and IT WAS AWESOME!! Now here's my question: Where did things like that go? Those things make the world feel alive. It makes it feel like when you're doing a public event you are actually doing something, not just completing a diversion for some marks or a bounty. It was this moment that truly started to sell me on the game almost two years ago. What we got instead was beyond disappointing.[/quote] The sky does get dark. And you can't have the tower fall, have the shockwave, every devil walker public event. What sense would that make the tower repeatedly going back up just to drop every 2 hours? [quote]11:18- You see that? That's the carrier! Really heavily implying that we are part of something, once again.[/quote] The personal ship drop off again. Likely a last gen cut. [quote]11:24- Oh look! Epic speaker speech! "War is coming. We barely survived the last. We must regain the offensive." These kinds of things are important. These kinds of things are really important. They explain what's going on. They explain why we have to fight how we do. They give the narrative a driving force. The closest thing we got to that was some sort of sad speaker speech about how he could tell us X, Y or Z. Moreover, notice how the speaker was on a balcony with the player. That implies that the player is important. Some sort of serious military force that's talking directly with somebody who is very clearly a leader of humanity. We got nothing like that in the full game.[/quote] I don't think just that speech would have saved the narrative thread, or lack thereof, in the missions. [quote]11:30- The Vex, Hive, and Cabal appear to be way more aggressive on here than the full game. I'll simply chalk that up to advertising though.[/quote] That's not gameplay bro... [quote]11:36- Okay, first off let me say that I'm a very auditory person. When I say very auditory person, I mean I almost broke into tears when I heard the tune that started playing here for the first time. Anyways, what happened to this whole section? This had such heavy implications for the story. "Why is the city breathing down my neck?" Oh, so what you're saying is that the city is some sort of authority, and is trying to impose justice on some rogue or something. Not only that, but they have the structure and government to actually breathe down somebody's neck. Cool. "Out here in the wild, this is how we talk." Implies that this whole thing is a big jungle to be explored. It's not.[/quote] Not sure if this was moved to an xpack or simply just dropped. Everyone assumes there was an awesome story here that conspiracy theorists blew up. What if that story just sucked and that's why they changed it? [quote]11:46- Beautiful scenery shots implying that the worlds are larger than they are.[/quote] Those are literally zones in the game. That's the drop off point for venus and the approach to the dust palace building. [quote]11:51- Saturn. There is no Saturn.[/quote] Correct. Maybe soon? Maybe not. [quote]11:55- Oh look! There's the speaker telling us how important we are! How vital everything is! How we will become legend (the game's catchphrase, that isn't even said in game) and that if we fail we're all screwed. This was such an awesome moment in the trailer. I can almost assure you that with this final moment, 99% of everybody on the fence of whether or not they wanted the game fell to the want side. Shame that in the full game there are already "guardians fighting on Mars and Venus", and we're just another member of the horde.[/quote] Welcome to MMOs. Have to try to make everyone feel unique and like the singular hero, when in reality several millions people are doing the exact same thing. [u]So to sum up[/u]: A prerendered vista that wasn't playable space wasn't included in the game. No dropping directly off your ship, likely dropped because of last gen. Shank AI possibly decreased. No physical loot drops, also likely cut for last gen. Removed a tower falling which would make no sense in the actual game, because it would literally need to fall and be rebuilt to fall again 12 times per day. A cutscene with possibly the queen's brother was cut/moved. No Saturn. Of course Saturn wasn't playable in that demo. Just a picture of it, almost as if they were suggesting that is somewhere the game could go in the future... I'm not going to suggest this is a perfect game. The loot distribution choices were poor. Players are chewing through content much quicker then expected. They is a lot of grind associated with this game, and a lack of rewards, partially due to the fact that they limited themselves with too few stats and mods on weapons. But that video is essentially the game we got.
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I like Destiny don't love it..I play cause I paid for the season pass. After that I'll cross that bridge when it gets here but definitely won't prepay again. I really hate seeing that trailer...
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2 RepliesTL:DR
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1 Reply[quote][b]9:06[/b]- OH MY GOD. DID YOU SEE THAT? THAT WAS INCREDIBLE!!!! The sky got dark, then the ship warped in, then there was a big shock wave and the tower fell over, then there were more ships, and IT WAS AWESOME!! Now here's my question: [b]Where did things like that go[/b]? [/quote] That moment appeared in the first mission. Now, if you want to see a colony ship get knocked over for every public event, you would eventually end up with no more colony ships. What would be the point of putting colony ships in the game if they're all going to get knocked over a couple hours after the game is released?
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I understand that you were expecting more. But, I need to agree with some of the others that this really isn't much different than what we got. The only thing I really miss was the obvious change/removal of story elements. That quick clip of the Queen's brother... "Out here, *this* is how we talk," indicates that there's an entire storyline that existed, at least for that (Where were we? Why was I looking for him?) Aside from that, and a bit of obvious artistic license, I'd say that I'm playing that game.
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I've said this before but I firmly believe that this was actually an animation made to publicise the game and not an actual playable demo. A glorified cutscene if you like. If you watch a video of real players the movement is more erratic compared to the smoothness of this. I'm not suggesting that the intention for this level of detail wasn't there but there was almost definitely an element of wishful thinking in the animation which would have been deliberately glossed up for expectant fans and press. Sales were astronomical so the risk was clearly worth taking.
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2 RepliesNice comparison at the vend but I can't stand carbonation... The only soda I can enjoy us completely flat soda... Coincidentally I love destiny...
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1 ReplyApril fools
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5 RepliesThe feels...
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This whole topic has been brought up so many times but I'll still make a comment. The thing you have to understand is that the whole trailer is just an advertisement. All trailers looks better than the original game these days. Most of the changes you point out are minor differences. Even halo 2 had a demo that was different from the original game. It had more destructible environments, smarter npc, different attack animations and a whole mission that wasn't in the actual game. Things like thunderlord dropping as it did are simply to show cool aspects of the game. I'm sure it was never intended to drop like that. Other things like different talent trees and getting dropped off by your shit were changed just to make things simpler or they weren't necessary. The only aspect of this game that disappoints me is the story and there is a reason for that I recommend you research( turns out bungie lost their main story writer not long before its initial release).
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1 ReplyI enjoyed your commentary. I'd love to see you put it all into a nice video edited together with clips from the game to illustrate your points. I'd think that would be an interesting watch.
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1 ReplyI see that you have high level characters and high grim score , so I'm curious about something.... Are you new to the forums or the game itself? Because this subject has been beating to death since about November, multiple postings of the same videos and same conclusion you and 1000 other have made ....
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3 RepliesEdited by Sour Diesel: 4/1/2015 7:00:48 AMPeople are still talking about this? Jesus. Please build a bridge and get over it already. Stop pining for what could have been. It isn't gonna change. We have the product. Deal or move on.
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3 RepliesCan someone reply so I can find this later.
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1 ReplyEdited by Bloo: 4/1/2015 6:46:50 PMNow the thing that kills me the most is the FACT that we will NEVER have that 2013 E3 game we were promised. Never ever.
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5 RepliesI had never seen the E3 trailer until now. I constantly hear people talk about content loss and now....I don't see it. Other than some cinematic differences, that was destiny we are all playing. That exotic drop was obviously scripted for the purpose of the video. Cool stuff like public event ship knocking over buildings was nice but how dumb would it look in real game to have same buildings knocked over 1000 times ever time walker event drops? Just admit it, the feeling you had the first time you played destiny WAS the experience you re live watching that video. That's why after 6-7 months and 500 hours you are all still here. I realize the game gets boring after time (they all do) but 95% of what i saw on that video is in the game. Destiny is like -blam!-ing a hot chick. Do it everyday for hours on end for months at a time, and it does get boring lol. And anyone who thinks otherwise has never been laid
