Are you on XB1 cuz I really want to do the raids but nobody will run with me (I'm a 30 Hunter with no ghorn) and you sound like a person I would enjoy doing a raid with lol

I do everything legit! Except the bridge on Crota's End....

You say that as if it was ever any different, it was always like this, I've been playing with randoms from the start and I get called out as the crazy person every time I try to suggest doing anything legit. Some people just don't care about how it should be and just like exploiting things.

Why not change your view so ou can watch is warlocks. If you cant do the abyss legit you shouldnt play destiny. I did that part as a 28

More like an evolving breed

Definition of Insanity is doing the same thing time after time and expecting a different outcome - ie loot drops that never happen. Thats why I enjoy any method that bypasses the 'designed' path to completion. If Bungie hadnt been so keen to nerf all the little cheeses then maybe there would still be multiple ways to complete CE. As it is I feel forced into running the same mechanics every week - booring.

Short answer: after I've done the raid countless times and not getting what I hoped for, I want to get through it as quickly as possible even if that means cheesing it. However, if I'm in a raid with people who have never done it legit I ask them if they want to do it legit to get the exp. and I'm happy to do so. (it's cool to hear their excitement in experiencing it for the first time. )

Dude I was thinking about making this same exact post today. I always have and always will play in terms of what the game wants me to accomplish without any cheesing or glitching and learn from my mistakes when I fail. (Be wary of long post!) It's a ridiculous standard people have set up with raids where everyone wants to cheese and nobody wants to volunteer to be the relic holder. i have been in teams where in VoG people fell off from the cheese spot onto the main platform to get cleansed from an oracle and I insisted we dont wipe and actually try legit. After failing a couple times on the cheese spot and everyone whining how "we can't do it"...we succeed [b][u]first try[/u][/b] legit. The same thing goes for the abyss and bridge on crota. Do you even realize how much more fun and exhilerating it is to run through the abyss watching your teams back helping all the different classes along the way with all those thralls after you? How awesome it feels to actually have the trust and coordination of a group to get every single person across the bridge? And what most people dont even realize is that in some cases..."cheesing" is not only a more boring way to do things but it also sometimes takes [b][u]longer[/u][/b]. I just think its a really funny double standard people have set up with this game. Most teams wont even accept you even in VoG without the best weapon in the game(Gjallahorn). Yet, what is the point of farming and cheesing a raid with this nearly impossibly high standard when the requirements to join a group are basically to have done the raids over tons of times and access to the best weapons in the game as it is? the only hopeful way to meet those reqs are to do nightfall and just hope for the best otherwise. Then even with the ridiculous amounts of gear people have, they will [b][u]STILL[/u][/b] cheese, regardless of the fact doing it any other way besides would still be a complete and utter breeze. It all comes down to the fact people lack self-confidence. People do not want to take any risk at all, want to be rewarded as quick as possible for as little effort as possible, without so much of a bat in the eye. They are all allowed to cheese as it is though, cause until Bungie patches that crap out they are allowed to cheese all they want and theres literally nothing you can do to stop it. The best thing you can really do about it is try to find more like minded people to play with, as tough as that may be to actually do so. Im down for doing raids legit, and have. [b][u]TLDR[/u][/b]: People cheese even with insane amounts of gear because they lack the confidence to actually accomplish the challenge of the raid and do not want the burden of a wipe on themselves. People will say they have all the confidence in the world on the forums but when bark comes to bite, they are the most introverted people in a party.

"Legit" Raiders never existed unless you mean the first maybe 20 groups Day 1 that beat it then found the cheeses

No, a breed which has way to much time on their hands. I only cheese to save time, not because I cannot do it legitimately. Anyone who says otherwise, well, screw you >:(

There isn't a ton of coordination needed in either of the Destiny raids so far which is proven by the fact that both can be completed solo. The best raid content I have seen in any game to date is easily Everquest 2. You have to coordinate 24 players to learn and follow scripts, control their own DPS output, do specific tasks within a small amount of time. Each raider has to know what detriment is on them or what buff package is on the boss. Failing any of those things can result in a raid wipe. 1 person out of 24 players can end it all lol and the encounters often last anywhere from 7 to 20 minutes.

People are just fixated on the loot and they take the path of least resistance. You probably have every piece of armor and weapon so your perspective is different then most.

I always put "lactose intolerant run" on my /r/fireteams posts and still get people in the game that are like "Can we just cheese it?" These people get kicked. I'm all for cheesing if I'm running a quick game on my lunch break, trying to speed through it. But if I say no cheesing in my post, I mean no cheesing.

Ok so if ur tired of un legit raiders become one. Now hear me out I'm a 32 with every exotic except sga and I have all hard mode guns I want(necrocasm evades me but I don't want that pos) so what do I mean by be one? Simple grab a friend 32 and then grab 4 27s and run threw normal cheesing the bridge and abyss and surprise them by complete ing death singer with just 2 people and get then their first completeion it's a very good feeling to help other people get gear they need. That's what I've done and honestly more fun than running it legit less stress can joke instead of busting my balls in hard mode to not die just more fun over all

They should add score based rewards and Rankings. Kill x amount of enemies = more points towards S rank etc. I always enjoy killing the mobs but i understand how others can find it extremely boring when there's nothing to gain after doing it for the billionth time.

I have a raid group that is lactose intolerant.

Gets old after a while so ppl just want to get it done quick for the rewards. Much like strikes where it's just speedruns these days.

If you're ps4. I don't mind legit!