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8/18/2008 10:37:50 PM
450
Blood Gulch =/= Valhalla and =/= Standoff.
As a person who loves Blood Gulch, I'm not a fan of people incorrectly saying Valhalla or even Standoff replaces it. So I hope to end this argument with a very long post.
WARNING!
Not for those with short attention spans!
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Valhalla completely defies the themes of Blood Gulch, which automatically means it isn't the same thing. No matter how many things [i] look[/i] similar (i.e. the pelican on Valhalla as a cave or the river on Valhalla), a map can't replace another if the game play is nothing like it.
Some people may not have noticed, but Valhalla has a hill in the middle of it. This blocks the views of one base to most of the other. In Blood Gulch, base to base snipers battles weren't exactly rare. This is because it was a level plain, where a sniper could shoot anyone almost anywhere on the map. Due to the hill, snipers are not the most dominant force on Valhalla usually. One theme of Blood Gulch destroyed.
The next theme of Blood Gulch is vehicles. Valhalla has vehicles. So does Blood Gulch. I don't think Valhalla has any tanks though. Or ghosts [i]normally[/i]. Odd for a remake, huh? Not to have any of the things that actually made the map awesome.
To vehicles again...there is also, again, the hill. The hill means that vehicular battles will never happen on a regular basis in MM. On Blood Gulch you just had plain open ground. Drive in circles hoping your gunner can outdo theirs, while dodging the sniper. The hill makes it so Warthogs rarely encounter one another.
Mancannons are on Valhalla, teleporters in Blood Gulch. I know, 'they're the same thing practically!' Wrong sir! On this map, they are not. A mancannon on Blood Gulch would be devastating to the map, for any decent sniper could have a field day. Blood Gulch had teleporters due to the risk of going to the middle of the map with snipers on either side. This, again, is defeated by Valhalla's large hill.
On Valhalla you can just mancannon to the middle of the map in relative safety, or even walk! This is, yet again, due to the large hill in the middle. On Blood Gulch, if you went near the middle of the map on foot, a sniper would likely pick you off. You can go an entire game easily on Valhalla without Vehicles or Snipers. If you tried that on Blood Gulch, you'd get laughed at and killed many times.
Standoff has many of the same issues. Where to begin?
Standoff ishow shall I put this [b]small[/b]. Blood Gulch was huge, and Standoff is not. The largeness of Blood Gulch is one of its best features. Both maps have a base. Oh, that must mean the maps the same! Standoff replaces Blood Gulch, just like Valhalla does (by the way, if both maps replace Blood Gulch, then you'd better start explaining how Standoff is the same as Valhalla), huh? Right
Standoff has a single Warthog in front of each base. Blood Gulch has a warthog by each base as well. Blood Gulch also had a banshee, a ghost, and tank. Standoff also hasoh, never mind. Standoff has mongooses. I have little doubt that if Blood Gulch is ever going to be remade in Halo 3, that mongooses would be included. So there you go. Still, one theme of Blood Gulch is destroyed.
Blood Gulch has tiny bumps that bounce you up and down while you drive in your hog. Standoff has rocks that you can crash into. Very similar, I know.
Really though, the rocks also ruin the Blood Gulch experience. I don't even need to explain that part I don't think. To me, it is far too obvious.
Standoff lacks the one weapon Blood Gulch centered aroundthe sniper. Standoff does not have a sniper, and I think it was a very good move by Bungie not to include it. In a map like Standoff, the sniper would dominate, and I mean more than in Blood Gulch. In blood gulch, you have a tank. Not only can you pick up chicks in a tank, but you can kill a sniper. Yay multi tasking!
At last, some smaller points:
1. Valhalla was a spiritual successor. It was not supposed to be Blood Gulch. It was inspired by Blood Gulch.
2. There is a difference between thinking a map is good, and thinking it is not like another map. Standoff happens to be my current favorite Halo 3 map. Valhalla is a fun map as well, though I wouldn't say it was one of my favorites.
3. When Standoff was first shown, I believe the words Bungie used were 'it has a Blood Gulch feel'. Something to that effect... it doesn't mean it can replace Blood Gulch at all! All it means is that it has the same [i]feel [/i] as Blood Gulch. Bungie certainly got that right; it does remind me of it. Maybe that's why I love the map so much. Or it could be that Multi- Flag on Standoff with AR starts is epic fun!
4. Themes can be argued. Maybe some of you don't think the themes of Blood Gulch are snipers and/or vehicles. However, I firmly believe that these are the themes, and I believe most people would agree with me, whether they think Valhalla/Standoff can replace Blood Gulch or not.
5. I am well aware of the 'Bring Back Blood Gulch' group. I support the cause, but I just don't want to join more groups. Sorry fellas, but my support will be from the outside. Good group theme though, it's a good thing.
There you have it, the reasons Valhalla and Standoff do not equal Blood Gulch. Please bring fire extinguishers for the flames when you enter the 'reply' screen, if you do reply.
Thanks for reading.
[quote] Quote due to it looking nicer than a 'edit' symbol. I've been desperately trying to avoided editing this post, because I feel the edit thing makes such a lovely post look sloppy. It couldn't be helped though. Turns out that with the New New Hawtness, it was impossible to reply to this thread due to the title I had. So I had to change the title. Apologies to anybody who tried- you should now have no trouble.[/quote]
[Edited on 03.26.2009 6:23 PM PDT]
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Tibetz Valhalla is better than Blood Gulch. [/quote] Perhaps. The point is though that that is an opinion, and not a fact.
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To the OP Valhalla is just a spiritual remake that takes the lessons learned from blood gulch and changes it into a new map for balanced gameplay. Since the hill is added, spawn points on the bases are safer now from snipers, and the tanks are too cumbersome for some parts of the map, although valhalla heavies does have more vehicles. It isn't an exact remake, but is similar enough to make some people think that it is related to blood gulch. Anyways... I just made an argument that supports the OP... wait, what?
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Valhalla is better than Blood Gulch. Seriously, where is the fun in just raping guys with snipers with your pistol/BR?
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Chips... you obviously did not read the original post, so I fail to see why you felt the need to post a response. I never once said Valhalla was a bad map. I actually said it was pretty good. That was in the first post, which tells me you didn't read it. Not only that, but you try insulting the style of gameplay that, in my own personal opinion, made Blood Gulch a good map. It is my belief that this suggests you have little to no facts to back up what you say. I do suggest knowing what you're talking about before opening your mouth in the future, friend. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Teh Pwnage lol Blood Gultch/ Coagulation doesn't really need a remake. They already remade Chill out and gave it out for free. The Mythic Maps are coming out soon, so just be patient. Everyone knows that it is a really really really low chance that bungie will remake Coag. Say, a 0.01 % chance it will be made.[/quote] Oh, I gave up hope for a remake long ago, when I asked for a remake in a weekly update and Lukems told me no. However, I'm afraid that I must impress the fact that getting a remake is not the point of this thread. Oh... and I'm sure the Mythic maps will be superb. I'm very excited for Orbital.
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Thank you for finally ending this argument, although most of the people here are too dumb to be able to read that.
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One thing to say about the part "Tanks beat sniper." The tanks in Halo CE are garbage. The cover allows bullets to pass through. A pistole could kill a tank by the time the tank sees you, so a sniper > tank. All the other reasons i agree with. By the way, china wants their wall back. EDIT: Blood Gultch/ Coagulation doesn't really need a remake. They already remade Chill out and gave it out for free. The Mythic Maps are coming out soon, so just be patient. Everyone knows that it is a really really really low chance that bungie will remake Coag. Say, a 0.01 % chance it will be made. [Edited on 01.12.2009 6:32 AM PST]
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] EdS Chips Blood Gulch sucks. FULL STOP Just because Valhalla requires you too actually move into the map, instead of being a bunch of wusses and sniping from the base doesn't mean ints bad. [/quote]I highly doubt that you have even played Blood Gulch for more than 10 minutes. In this case, your opinion [i]does not[/i] matter. Think of something more intelligent to say next time.
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Blood Gulch sucks. FULL STOP Just because Valhalla requires you too actually move into the map, instead of being a bunch of wusses and sniping from the base doesn't mean ints bad.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Crunchy_Shadow In my opinion, Coag/Blood Gulch doesn't need a remake. Valhalla is much better, much more beautiful, and much more elaborate. I do like Coag a lot more than Standoff but I do not believe it needs a remake[/quote] That's your opinion, and you're perfectly entitled to that. While I do disagree, getting a remake is not the point of this thread. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Jiggly Luv Did you just say "Multi Flag on Standoff with [b]AR starts[/b] is epic fun"? I would assume that was sarcasm, but it sure doesn't sound like it. I do think Multi-flag and other Objective gametypes are fun on that map, however, anything AR start on Standoff is an epic fail.[/quote] Eh, it's an opinion. To each man his own.[quote] A misconception is that maps from Halo 1 have the same gameplay in Halo 3. If the game was balanced better, then yes. But, the joy you get from playing CTF on Blood Gulch in Halo 1 is just not closely comparable to what it would be with Halo 3, or even on Coagulation in Halo 2. Blood Gulch was fun, because of the openness of the map, which provided interesting M6D and Sniper battles with Pro settings, and because while being on foot you didn't feel completely useless since you could fight vehicles, other weapon advantages, and map control, of course, with Pro settings. Along with Halo 3 lacking BR starts, the effectiveness of being on foot is quite low, which means open, large maps do not always turn into an enjoyable experience (except maybe for the one in the Warthog). I'm far from supporting Blood Gulch for Halo 3, because it would be a waste of their time. Halo 3 is a CQB game with a some long range Vehicle fests, thus, why I am onto other, more enjoyable, and less frustrating games.[/quote] And again, that's an opinion, which I respect. However, the point I believe I have made it that Valhalla is not the Gulch, nor is Standoff. The very fact that people, such as yourself my good sir, think Blood Gulch would not work in Halo 3 further supports my claim that it is not already in Halo 3.
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I agree, burritosenior. Did you just say "Multi Flag on Standoff with [b]AR starts[/b] is epic fun"? I would assume that was sarcasm, but it sure doesn't sound like it. I do think Multi-flag and other Objective gametypes are fun on that map, however, anything AR start on Standoff is an epic fail. A misconception is that maps from Halo 1 have the same gameplay in Halo 3. If the game was balanced better, then yes. But, the joy you get from playing CTF on Blood Gulch in Halo 1 is just not closely comparable to what it would be with Halo 3, or even on Coagulation in Halo 2. Blood Gulch was fun, because of the openness of the map, which provided interesting M6D and Sniper battles with Pro settings, and because while being on foot you didn't feel completely useless since you could fight vehicles, other weapon advantages, and map control, of course, with Pro settings. Along with Halo 3 lacking BR starts, the effectiveness of being on foot is quite low, which means open, large maps do not always turn into an enjoyable experience (except maybe for the one in the Warthog). I'm far from supporting Blood Gulch for Halo 3, because it would be a waste of their time. Halo 3 is a CQB game with a some long range Vehicle fests, thus, why I am onto other, more enjoyable, and less frustrating games. [Edited on 01.11.2009 5:50 PM PST]
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In my opinion, Coag/Blood Gulch doesn't need a remake. Valhalla is much better, much more beautiful, and much more elaborate. I do like Coag a lot more than Standoff but I do not believe it needs a remake
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Well similarities are a tad different than being the same. Sides... despite nay similarities, a map can't replace another if the gameplay is nothing like it.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] WsP POP TART And yes Valhalla = Blood Gulch and Coagulation in its own way (Plus it looks cooler than that open field) [/quote] I dare you to name three similarities. And not stupid ones like "it's big" or "it has green grass and brown dirt!".
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QFT, i agree 100%
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OK... let's get started here: [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Dr Steve people=/=care about what you think[/quote] First off, as Feanor was kind enough to say, your post makes little to no sense. Besides, this thread isn't about what I think, so it's OK. It's about what I [i]know[/i] and what I'm sharing with the community. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] WsP POP TART No there will not be a remake.... haaaa. And yes Valhalla = Blood Gulch and Coagulation in its own way (Plus it looks cooler than that open field) [/quote] I never said there would be a remake, and I never requested one. To the contrary, I have said many dozens of times throughout this thread that I am not attempting to get a remake brought back. You can't have a map equal another in its own way. It is either the same...similar...not completely different. In the case of Valhalla and Blood Gulch... it is similar. The point is though that they are not the same. You're perfectly entitled to think that Valhalla looks cooler. That's an opinion. I, however, respectfully disagree. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Rylite Nobody said it was a remake. [/quote] Arg. Go to a random page in this thread, and I bet you'll find many who wrongfully say otherwise :)[quote] It's was labeled a "spiritual successor". Blood Gulch had it's problems, which is why it wasn't put in. Valhalla is it's replacement. Nothing we can do about it.[/quote] Replacement? Guardian was a spiritual successor to Lockout. Now I wonder which map replaces Lockout? Anywho, I'm not trying to get it brought back. I'm simply explaining why it is not the same as Valhalla. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] WsP POP TART [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] dem0n f1are If you're not even going to read his thread, get off; you look like an idiot. He's pointing out the differences between standoff and valhalla on how each map makes a spiritual succesor in either gameplay or scenery. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ugotnoobed Please the title says "Bungie give us a remake" and a lot of people who posted want a remake. How do I know? because I remember seeing all of these same peopke and reading their posts on that bogus thread about "Coagulaion/ Blood Gulch" thread that was posted in july last year that went on for about 71 pages that was filled with people harping on others who disagreed with them. My suggestion to you is, drop Blood Gultch and Coagulation all together, If you want it so badly play halo 2 or 1. [/quote] The title does [i]not[/i] say give us a remake. In fact, not [i]once[/i] have I asked for a remake. I have said many times that that is [i]not[/i] my goal, and therefore you prove ignorance by stating the opposite, when anyone who views the thread can clearly see it is not true. I [i]do[/i] go back to Halo 2 to play Coagulation. I do it all the time. Why? Because it's [i]fun.[/i] However, again your point has strayed from the actual topic at hand, as this is not about getting Blood Gulch into Halo 3. Edit: Padolski, perhaps you are right. There's a fairly decent chance Bungie just couldn't make it work in Halo 3 due to all the changes that took place. However, that is not my point. In fact, the very point that it wouldn't work in Halo 3 further disproves that Valhalla/Standoff= Blood Gulch at all. [Edited on 01.11.2009 9:25 AM PST]
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I agree that Valhalla and Standoff are not Blood gulch, they do share some similarities though. The only similarity is they have two bases. But really, do you think a map like blood gulch would work with halo 3 gameplay? If it was like Blood Gulch people would get sniped or even lasered across the map when they spawn. Plus the other new weapons and equipment in halo 3 would sorta ruin it. If you want and EXACT replica with weapon spawns and everything, whats the point of playing it when you can just play halo CE? Besides isn't it the [i] feel [/i] that counts? And I bet you if Bungie tries to remake Blood Gulch ( which they wont) into halo 3, it would be a disaster to many of those who want it back. They may have to change a few things in blood gulch to match halo 3 gameplay, and then a bunch of people would say " OMG bungie r ruined blood gulch". Take Blackout for example. Bungie remaked that, made a few changes so it could be fair in Halo 3, and a ton of people start complaining that they ruined it. In conclusion, thank you if you read all of this.
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well we are getting a new umm.......BOX with sand in it. I have a wierd feeling that sandbox will be our favorite boxed canyon in the middle of no where. just a wierd theory.
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Blood gulch would not work in halo 3.
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blood gulch can never be replaced. standoff comes no where near close to it. valhalla is similar but it cannot replace blood gulch.
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also i believe that bvlood gulch is too huge for halo 3. in halo 1 and 2 you had the extremely accurate and long disxtance Br/magnum.. whereas halo 3 BR in blood gulch would be like having valhalla without battle rifles.. just doesn't work
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i think all 3 are uniqe and i like them all
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] dem0n f1are If you're not even going to read his thread, get off; you look like an idiot. He's pointing out the differences between standoff and valhalla on how each map makes a spiritual succesor in either gameplay or scenery. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ugotnoobed wow another blood gultch thread...congratulation u spent an hour on this one too anyways they shouldnt, and wont bring this map back because the halo 3 is a different game from halo 1/2, the game plays different its that simple.. as well, there is enough big team battle maps as it is so i think people need to chill on the "oh we want blood gultch crap" why cant people just enjoy the new maps made for halo 3, which is a new game remember, if we wanted allthe maps remade from halo 1 and 2 we should just go play those games....i for one am sick of remakes and know that bungie can still make great new maps such as , the pit, narrows, standoff, and guardian...etc. please bungie no more more remakes...[/quote][/quote] Please the title says "Bungie give us a remake" and a lot of people who posted want a remake. How do I know? because I remember seeing all of these same peopke and reading their posts on that bogus thread about "Coagulaion/ Blood Gulch" thread that was posted in july last year that went on for about 71 pages that was filled with people harping on others who disagreed with them. My suggestion to you is, drop Blood Gultch and Coagulation all together, If you want it so badly play halo 2 or 1.
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If you're not even going to read his thread, get off; you look like an idiot. He's pointing out the differences between standoff and valhalla on how each map makes a spiritual succesor in either gameplay or scenery. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ugotnoobed wow another blood gultch thread...congratulation u spent an hour on this one too anyways they shouldnt, and wont bring this map back because the halo 3 is a different game from halo 1/2, the game plays different its that simple.. as well, there is enough big team battle maps as it is so i think people need to chill on the "oh we want blood gultch crap" why cant people just enjoy the new maps made for halo 3, which is a new game remember, if we wanted allthe maps remade from halo 1 and 2 we should just go play those games....i for one am sick of remakes and know that bungie can still make great new maps such as , the pit, narrows, standoff, and guardian...etc. please bungie no more more remakes...[/quote]
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Nobody said it was a remake. It's was labeled a "spiritual successor". Blood Gulch had it's problems, which is why it wasn't put in. Valhalla is it's replacement. Nothing we can do about it.
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No there will not be a remake.... haaaa. And yes Valhalla = Blood Gulch and Coagulation in its own way (Plus it looks cooler than that open field) Standoff is more like Battle Creek
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Dr Steve people=/=care about what you think[/quote] People does not equal care what you think? You make no sense.
