[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2uPdxUPnXU]relevant [/url] ^_^

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ZachAttack2K6 Vegans are pale, frail, unattractive and malnourished looking. [/quote] That's not true, either. People can do without meat as long as they have a balanced diet.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] The BS Police [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] XenoAttackin So I could say, you don't need the internet, T.V, fashion products, cars, big buildings, plains, brand name shoes, books, or any new aged technology or toys. We could all just -blam!- in a cave and eat -blam!- [b]grass.[/b] [/quote]Actually, we couldn't.[/quote]The grass part was an exaggeration on eating vegetables. I thought it was obvious.

Vegans are pale, frail, unattractive and malnourished looking. And -blam!- the hypocrit vegiterians who dont eat red meat and just eat birds/fish. You are garbage.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] mahspoonis2big [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Gage_1337 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] mahspoonis2big [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Gage_1337 But if you really have some links to prove otherwise. Show me.[/quote]I do, in that animals would exist on their own anyway, and in that many livestock eat plants humans do not find fit for consumption, such as grass, or leaves. Honestly there are so many holes in these arguments a logical person doesn't even need to try. But you can keep going if you want, though.[/quote] You still haven't provided any links for any proof that we need hto kill animals to keep enviromental balance in check. I'm not going to take your argument seriously until you provide some. Honestly, what proof is there that the world relies on factory farming?[/quote]I don't have -blam!-, biased links as you do, because I learned it from my [i]Sustainable Environments[/i] professor. The day you find out where to get agenda-free information on the internet for free, let me know. Also, you misunderstood. I did not once say the world relies on factory farming, though that is probably what you wanted to hear. I am not an advocate of factory farming, actually.[/quote] None of my links were biased. I doubt you even bothered to any check them. Of course, I currently do not have a [i]Sustainable Environments[/i] professor So I am in need of links to prove whether or not that your claim that "f no one ate meat, the trophic levels on the planet would be utterly destroyed." is valid or not. Hey, I can do the same thing. I can quote someone with an opinion and base it as fact. Watch me... [i]Nothing will benefit human health and increase the chances for survival of life on Earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet.[/i]- Albert Einstein See I just quoted Albert Einstein. Does that make my argument any more valid? No. You have to post links to of evidence to back up your claims or your argument is invalid. So far, I am the only one who has bothered to post any links with evidence. To be honest, I didn't post in this thread just to flame/get into an argument with anyone. I just came here to post why I chose to be a vegan. But obviously you felt incredibly hostile towards it and decided to pull some "Facts" out of your ass.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] XenoAttackin So I could say, you don't need the internet, T.V, fashion products, cars, big buildings, plains, brand name shoes, books, or any new aged technology or toys. We could all just -blam!- in a cave and eat -blam!- [b]grass.[/b] [/quote]Actually, we couldn't.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ApolloCree There is absolutely no reason why we should eat meat from an evolutionary or 'natural' perspective either. Our bodies are not designed to..[/quote] Talk to your appendix. [/quote]I know this is a misquote and not you, but humans are designed to eat less meat than we do at present (think once, twice a week in large portions, three, four times in smaller ones). But, we are indeed natural omnivores from a purely objective standpoint.

[quote]There is absolutely no reason why we should eat meat from an evolutionary or 'natural' perspective either. Our bodies are not designed to..[/quote] Talk to your appendix. [Edited on 12.27.2010 10:12 AM PST]

How about I make you a nice taco Sammich?

Reasons eating meat is "normal" 1.Other animals do it, is a lion "murdering" the gazelle, or is it just simply surving in the circle of life? 2.We are better than animals, plain and simple, we are most intelligent so we eat what we want. 3.I dont want to become a pale ass frail vegan who looks anorexic as could be. 4.Like above, It's healthy for you, sure there are alternatives but you gotta live. I only get one life on this earth and I will enjoy it how I want 5.Despite what you think, meat tastes good and we have been cooking it over a fire for hundreds of thousands of years. 6.Bacon=meat Bacon=the best food ever, with or without 500 garnishes. 7.-blam!-s gotta eat.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Bungie Sam Better than cow's harvesting us for MoocDonalds.[/quote]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Gage_1337 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] mahspoonis2big [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Gage_1337 But if you really have some links to prove otherwise. Show me.[/quote]I do, in that animals would exist on their own anyway, and in that many livestock eat plants humans do not find fit for consumption, such as grass, or leaves. Honestly there are so many holes in these arguments a logical person doesn't even need to try. But you can keep going if you want, though.[/quote] You still haven't provided any links for any proof that we need hto kill animals to keep enviromental balance in check. I'm not going to take your argument seriously until you provide some. Honestly, what proof is there that the world relies on factory farming?[/quote]I don't have -blam!-, biased links as you do, because I learned it from my [i]Sustainable Environments[/i] professor. The day you find out where to get agenda-free information on the internet for free, let me know. Also, you misunderstood. I did not once say the world relies on factory farming, though that is probably what you wanted to hear. I am not an advocate of factory farming, actually, which could have been easily ascertained by reading my posts in full. [Edited on 12.27.2010 10:00 AM PST]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] mahspoonis2big [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Gage_1337 But if you really have some links to prove otherwise. Show me.[/quote]I do, in that animals would exist on their own anyway, and in that many livestock eat plants humans do not find fit for consumption, such as grass, or leaves. Honestly there are so many holes in these arguments a logical person doesn't even need to try. But you can keep going if you want, though.[/quote] You still haven't provided any links for any proof that we need hto kill animals to keep enviromental balance in check. I'm not going to take your argument seriously until you provide some. Honestly, what proof is there that the world relies on factory farming?

What a load of -blam!-. I don't garnish any of my meat its fine how it is. Tastes way better than that -blam!- that grows out of the mud. You could debate that we don't need to eat meat, maybe its true but its are right to chose. So I could say, you don't need the internet, T.V, fashion products, cars, big buildings, plains, brand name shoes, books, or any new aged technology or toys. We could all just -blam!- in a cave and eat -blam!- grass. There are a lot of things you don't need but you still use and want. But hey if you want everyone to be a vegetarian and have to have to destroy millions of acres of wildlife habitat to sustain the world demand for farmland to grow the fruits and vegetables then fine. Your still killing innocent creatures the only difference is because your doing it indirectly so you can feel better about yourself if you don't think about it. [Edited on 12.27.2010 10:01 AM PST]

*eats bacon*

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Gage_1337 But if you really have some links to prove otherwise. Show me.[/quote]I do, in that animals would exist on their own anyway, and in that many livestock eat plants humans do not find fit for consumption, such as grass, or leaves. Honestly there are so many holes in these arguments a logical person doesn't even need to try. But you can keep going if you want, though.

Does nobody realize what your all doing DON'T FEED THE TROLL. Got it then let this thread die already.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] mahspoonis2big [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Gage_1337 As a Vegan, my Veganism isn't about trying to feel morally superior to people. It is about trying my best to abstain myself from cruelty and it's about trying to live as lightly on the Earth as possible. One of the reasons I am a vegan is because I abhor all forms of unecessary killing. Killing for mercy, killing in self-defence and killing for survival are acceptable in my opinion. I personally have no problem with a starving man eating meat because the man would likely die if he didn't and is only killing for survival which is a necessary form of killing. However, massively breeding billions of animals to slaughter in-order to feed people living in economically developed locations like Britain and the USA is absolutely not necessary because there is no nutrient in meat that is missing in a vegetarian diet. Necessary killing may be tragic, but I find killing simply for amusement, taste and small convenience vile and abhorrent. That is why I am a vegan.[/quote]Not only is this post hypocritical in that you rave for a solid run-on paragraph on how you are morally superior despite claiming to not feel that way, you're also wrong. If no one ate meat, the trophic levels on the planet would be utterly destroyed. Human meat-eating is necessary for environmental balance. Sure, humans eat more meat than they need or should currently, but a world without meat-eating is one that will see devastating crop infertilities and mass animal and human starvation. Vegans are vegans for purely selfish reasons. There is no 'world-citizen' aspect to it at all; you're doing it for yourself and yourself alone.[/quote] I never once claimed moral superiority. I just posted one of my ethical stances. About Meat eating being necessity for enviromental balance: Links for proof? Eating meat seems pretty dertrimental to enviroment in my opinion. [quote]Beef cattle, weighing in at around 900 pounds as an adult, require around 80 pounds of food each day[url=http://www1.agric.gov.ab.ca/$department/deptdocs.nsf/all/faq7811][1][/url], 18 pounds of which is grain[url=http://www1.agric.gov.ab.ca/$department/deptdocs.nsf/all/faq7811][2][/url] (most beef cattle in the U.S. are grain-fed[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cattle_feeding][3][/url]). Beef cattle live for only three to six years before being slaughtered[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cattle][4][/url]. Calculating only a three-year lifespan, that means the cow would have consumed 18 pounds of grain per day x 365 days per year x 3 years = 19,710 pound of grain during its life. But, of course, the animal is not born full grown, so we will cut this number in half to 9,855 pounds of grain consumed in its lifetime. Typically 62% of the weight of the animal ends up as meat[url=http://ars.sdstate.edu/MeatSci/May99-1.htm][5][/url]. So for our 900 pound example, we would have around 558 pounds of meat. 9,855 pounds of grain divided by 558 pounds of meat is 17.6 pounds of grain for each pound of meat. This is, obviously, far less efficient than supplying grains directly to people to eat. The massive "Corn Belt" of the United States, stretching from North Dakota to Ohio, grows corn and soybeans, not for human consumption, but for animal feed. The wastefulness of producing meat does not end just with feeding the animals. Massive amounts of fresh water, a precious and dwindling commodity, are required for meat production. Although 12 gallons of water are required for a 900 pound animal per day[url=http://www.omafra.gov.on.ca/english/engineer/facts/07-023.htm#2][6][/url], this figure is paltry considering the amound of water required to irrigate the grains and silage used to feed the animals. The mighty Colorado River no longer reaches the ocean, because it is used for irrigation (much of it for alfalfa and grains)[url=http://ceimperial.ucdavis.edu/Custom_Program275/Water_Quality_FAQs.htm][7][/url]. And then there is the matter of the fossil fuels required to support the production of the meat. Since it takes 17 times more grain to produce meat, it takes 17 times more fossil fuels to grow that grain. But it does not stop there: there is the transportation and storage of the grain, transportation of the animals, production, refridgeration and transportation of the meat, and so on. In the end, it takes 26 times the fossil fuels to support a meat-centered diet than a vegetarian diet. A United Nations report in 2007 states that 18% of global warming emissions come from raising animals for food[url=http://www.fao.org/docrep/010/a0701e/a0701e00.htm][8][/url]. Compare this to only 13% of emissions coming from all of the cars, trucks, trains, boats and airplanes in the world, combined. [b]Results of the Wastefulness[/b] [b]Less Resources for and Exploding Population[/b] A vegetarian diet is the most efficient diet for feeding people in the least amount of space. That is why the Biosphere 2 experiments utilized a vegetarian diet exclusively. [b]Demand for Fossil Fuels[/b] Demand for fossil fuels raises the prices at the gas pump as well as other commodities. Demand for fossil fuels results in wars to protect the precious supplies. Demand for fossil fuels results in increased drilling in parts of the world where an inevitable spill would be disasterous. Demand for fossil fuels increases greenhouse gasses and global warming. [b]Loss of Natural Habitat[/b] Vast quantities of land are being used to supply food for the meat industry. Most of this land could be reverted back into natural habitat. [b]Pesticides, Herbicides and Chemical Fertilizer[/b] Raising cattle and the food to feed the cattle is not a bucolic, pastoral scene, in harmony with nature. Agribusiness is the #1 pollutor, with chemical pesticides, herbicides and fertilizers being used, with runoff into our aquifers and waterways. Believe it or not, it is usually healthier to live next to a factory than next to a farm that uses these methods. [url=http://www.da4a.org/environment.htm]Moar![/url][/quote] But if you really have some links to prove otherwise. Show me. [Edited on 12.27.2010 9:49 AM PST]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Gage_1337 As a Vegan, my Veganism isn't about trying to feel morally superior to people. It is about trying my best to abstain myself from cruelty and it's about trying to live as lightly on the Earth as possible. One of the reasons I am a vegan is because I abhor all forms of unecessary killing. Killing for mercy, killing in self-defence and killing for survival are acceptable in my opinion. I personally have no problem with a starving man eating meat because the man would likely die if he didn't and is only killing for survival which is a necessary form of killing. However, massively breeding billions of animals to slaughter in-order to feed people living in economically developed locations like Britain and the USA is absolutely not necessary because there is no nutrient in meat that is missing in a vegetarian diet. Necessary killing may be tragic, but I find killing simply for amusement, taste and small convenience vile and abhorrent. That is why I am a vegan.[/quote]Not only is this post hypocritical in that you rave for a solid run-on paragraph on how you are morally superior despite claiming to not feel that way, you're also wrong. If no one ate meat, the trophic levels on the planet would be utterly destroyed. Human meat-eating is necessary for environmental balance. Sure, humans eat more meat than they need or should currently, but a world without meat-eating is one that will see devastating crop infertilities and mass animal and human starvation. Vegans are vegans for purely selfish reasons. There is no 'world-citizen' aspect to it at all; you're doing it for yourself and yourself alone.

As a Vegan, my Veganism isn't about trying to feel morally superior to people. It is about trying my best to abstain myself from cruelty and it's about trying to live as lightly on the Earth as possible. One of the reasons I am a vegan is because I abhor all forms of unecessary killing. Killing for mercy, killing in self-defence and killing for survival are acceptable in my opinion. I personally have no problem with a starving man eating meat because the man would likely die if he didn't and is only killing for survival which is a necessary form of killing. However, massively breeding billions of animals to slaughter in-order to feed people living in economically developed locations like Britain and the USA is absolutely not necessary because there is no nutrient in meat that is missing in a vegetarian diet. Necessary killing may be tragic, but I find killing simply for amusement, taste and small convenience vile and abhorrent. That is why I am a vegan.

If I was delicious to a certain animal, and it ate me, would anyone think that animal was evil (except morons)? Absolutely not. Why we expect humans to go against their biological urges and "know better" in regards to animal ingestion is beyond me. As long as it's done humanely (cage-free chickens, free-range cattle etc.), I don't see a problem with it. Also, [i][b][u]VEAL IS DELICIOUS[/i][/u][/b]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] G O R E25 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Dr TimothyLeary I could sit here and pretend that I do for the sake of coming across as "humane" or whatnot. But I'd be lying. I have a very clear separation between animals I consider to be domesticated pets, and those I use for food. Whether it sits in a cage until it ends up on my plate, or is treated with adoration and foot massages makes no difference to me. The result is the same.[/quote] You just completely don't care about animals apart from pets? Jesus Christ...at least you're being honest[/quote]Meh. I suppose if I directly saw someone abusing an animal it would bother me. But these things don't happen on the corner of my street. I tend to concern myself with things that directly effect me, rather than things I neither see, nor have the ability to change. Anyway. I'm being down right hypocritical be continuing in this thread. Peace out, hommie.

We are like bears, who eat meat when they kill it, but also eat plants when in season. These types animals are known as omnivores. Omni=all vore=eater. We are perfectly well designed to digest the proteins and fats found in meat. However, we have trouble with the simple sugars of certain plants like beans and broccoli (and various others) which give us gas! Eating meat is a choice, and one that most other animals don't quibble over. They either eat it if they are carnivores or omnivores or they don't if they are herbivores. if the food is available, they eat. Eating=living=surviving. You are making a choice to not eat meat, so god bless you in your decision. But don't try and convert anyone else that your way is the only way. Dogmatism is not needed. Let me think for myself and make my own decisions about what I eat, where I live, and who I live with. Thanks for your dogma but keep it to yourself.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Dr TimothyLeary I could sit here and pretend that I do for the sake of coming across as "humane" or whatnot. But I'd be lying. I have a very clear separation between animals I consider to be domesticated pets, and those I use for food. Whether it sits in a cage until it ends up on my plate, or is treated with adoration and foot massages makes no difference to me. The result is the same.[/quote] You just completely don't care about animals apart from pets? Jesus Christ...at least you're being honest

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Tomahawker [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] G O R E25 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Mepps Minnow 2 Animals eat other animals. Does the lion ask if the buffalo wants to die in a humane way?[/quote] To continue the seemingly endless circle of already covered discussion, the lion does not have higher moral capabilities and also needs to eat the buffalo to survive. I might eat meat if I had to to survive, but I don't.[/quote] No -blam!- Sherlock. Humans have rationality and animals have instinct. Meat is part of a healthy balanced diet.[/quote] It can be. Meat doesn't have to be in your diet though. You can be perfectly healthy without it.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Bornswavia [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Dr TimothyLeary [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] lord of dahorde Come on people! Lets make this a new top topic![/quote]Why? It should have been locked pages ago. Everyone is just making the same statements over and over. There's no discussion left.[/quote] And you're doing an absolutely terrible job contributing to the thread yourself. [/quote]I've made my stance on the subject. I simply don't care. I could sit here and pretend that I do for the sake of coming across as "humane" or whatnot. But I'd be lying. I have a very clear separation between animals I consider to be domesticated pets, and those I use for food. Whether it sits in a cage until it ends up on my plate, or is treated with adoration and foot massages makes no difference to me. The result is the same.