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#feedback

Edited by Lost Sols: 12/7/2015 2:18:17 AM
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Dreaming a better Destiny: FPExploration, stepping off the hamster wheel and into the unknown...

[quote]Designers spend thousands of hours creating details to immerse us, but some players never notice them. "What we do is create these incredible, atmospheric worlds, [then] bombard players with action. It felt like there were a whole lot of designers saying. 'What if we could just be in the world for a little while because that's really cool in itself?' What the last couple years have really shown is that there is a real audience out there and lots of people going 'Yeah, it's enough to be in a world and explore and that's a really rewarding experience'" -Dan Pinchbeck, Creative designer, The Chinese Room[/quote] This quote is from the [b]Destiny: The Taken king [/b]edition of Gameinformer this month. It's relevant and amusing in a number of ways, not the least of which is that it immediately follows the Destiny article in the magazine. Beyond that, to a great degree it offers up an ideal that I think many of us had in our heads in 2012 and 2013 of what our experience in Destiny would be like. "The First-Person Exploration Boom" That's the title of the article and it goes on to talk about the success of games like Gone Home, Dear Esther and Amnesia: the Dark Decent and how a subgenre has sprung up of just being in a world and exploring it. It credits games like System Shock 2 and Fallout 3 as having paved the way, but it goes back much further. My friends and I spent as much time exploring the original world of Halo as we did killing Covenant and Flood. Whether getting on top of the island or up on hills, flying the Banshee all through the snow levels... If it was possible to get somewhere, we found a way. It wasn't just limited to FPS games though. Rush: 2049 had all kinds of crazy places you could go off track and explore to find hidden coins. That game took up hundreds of hours of our time just driving around the world let alone racing. And while games like Fallout (and Morrowind and Oblivion before it) offered up worlds to just set off walking and see what adventure awaited hidden around the next bend, Bungie slowly worked away from that exploration and with Halo 3, started implementing hidden walls and death zones barricading all those places that beckoned to be explored. I don't think I'm alone in having had the belief (and the hope) that the worlds of Destiny would offer us that unknown to step out into, choose a direction and see where fate led us. I imagined that this would be a world where a real war raged and each of us could meet out in the solar system and positively impact each other’s battles to beat back the encroaching Darkness. It's funny with all the ups and downs that Destiny has had post launch, that one of the recurring themes is Bungie trying to find a way to gate our progression to prolong our playtime. Initially through ridiculous upgrade paths for weapons and gear, followed by Commendations and finally by Etheric Light. Now with TTK, they are letting us share Marks, but capping them at 200 account wide to ensure that we're endlessly grinding for more. On the one hand it's brilliant, we'll never build up a surplus and be able to say "I can play something else for a few days". But on the other hand, what does it say about the depth of the experience you are creating if you constantly feel the need to implement systems for gating to begin with? I think that is at the heart of Destiny's dilemma with the fans right now. We want the game world itself to make us want to keep playing and Bungie/Activision want slow dripped rewards to keep us involved. Unfortunately, they don't seem to have had any kind of long term world goals or gear progression plan in place when Destiny launched and seem to be making up rules for what can and can't be kept as they go along. It doesn't have to be this way. There don't have to be currency caps. There don't have to be endless weapon resets. There doesn't need to be a wheel spinning in place where numbers go up, but performance stays level. How? Living worlds to get lost in. Real secrets to unearth (no Golden Chests filled with green gear). Actual armies of enemies dropping out of the sky and not endless scouting parties of 3-5 enemies to quickly rout without any thought or question of success. How many hours do you think players would spend just wandering in-game if we could say, go over the Cosmodrome wall to explore around the rockets? What if we could climb one and sit high above the map sniping enemies roaming across the landscape? Here is something else that has bothered me for years with shooters. Why not bring PvP maps into the ACTUAL GAME WORLD. I don't know why no one does this; my favorite missions in GoldenEye were the maps that also served as PvP maps. It was kind of like playing PvP vs the regular game AI. How amazing would it be to explore the Cosmodrome and come across Rusted Lands, Twilight Gap and Sky Shock? I'm sorry, but it would be -blam!-ing incredible. Imagine fighting Fallen around Twilight Gap, Vex in the Pantheon, Cabal at Blind Watch... How it would bring those areas alive and give them a deeper meaning that made them truly special to the players that battle there in the Crucible. Not to mention that it would give players the opportunity to become familiar with these places before ever going to battle other Guardians there. They're areas designed for battle; why not let us fight minions of the darkness there? So in closing I would ask Bungie to really think about this world you are building and what it could become. I dream of a day when these planets aren't objectives, they're [i]destinations[/i]. Thank you all, see you amongst the stars.

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  • I like where your heads at. I have imagined the same things. Although it is a first person shooter I believe destiny has the capability of becoming the World of Warcraft of consoles. Thanks for the read!

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  • I think another one of the problems is with how they describe their own game. They describe it as a "shared-world shooter", but they've described it in their own updates, marketing, commercials, and ads as "Open World". That brings out its own issues. When people hear "Open World", what do they think of? Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim, most every MMO ever, Online RPG's, and a whole host of other [b]true[/b] open world games that let you wander where you will and pick up Quests/Missions at your own pace and desire. Hell, some of these games you don't even really have to Quest. Some MMO's and RPG's allow you to have a character who runs a goddamn Blacksmith shop. You go out and farm mats, create items, then sell them to other players. For quite a few people, that's the ideal way for them to roleplay. (RP) in games like these. But Bungie offers none of that, yet still uses the same descriptive phrases to describe their game as these other games that [b]do[/b] offer those play-styles. So people hear/read "Open World" and go into Destiny expecting unrestricted freedom; but instead get invisible walls, kill timers, and being pigeon-holed down set career/class paths. This is one of the many issues that people have with this game, and it's one of the harsher points of critique for Destiny. [quote]You see that mountain over there? That's all real terrain, real geometry in game. We want you to be able to go there. To explore it and have that sense of wonder.[/quote]Bungie ~ E3 2013 Seriously, Bungie; what happened to this? Regardless of the other massive mistakes you've made with Destiny, I'd still play the game if it were truly "Open World" as the game were advertised.

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    • Dude, look at the feedback forums. People are -blam!-ing pissed. I'd wager we who post on these forums do not make up a majority of the players of this game, but shit man. The anger here is thick. Your move, bungholes.

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      • Yep. Every area is empty except for the same low level enemies that spawn at the same spot every time. There is no challenge when roaming a planet. There is nothing to explore. There is nowhere to travel. Your Guardian is attached to rails (trains) and you can't get off of them. Then again, this game is called Destiny. It is predetermined and inevitable. You will be guided in a specific direction with no choice.

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        • The issue with any suggestion like this is that while it would be great, it's not -blam!-ing feasible.

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          • Honestly man, I think the dreadnaught is a step in that direction. It may not be the be all/end all of exploration sites, but it offers more of what your asking for than any of the other destinations.

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          • Bump

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          • Bu-uh-uh-ump

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          • Nice take a look at this https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/155455154/0/0

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          • BUMP

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            • Bump

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            • Edited by seelefantman: 8/30/2015 6:40:15 PM
              completely agree. May I put that into simpler bullet points (and add my own thoughts to it) - tunnels and caves should lead to special encounters, real treasures (no greens), captive NPCs or something along those lines. - this game needs a map as a function for dinklebot. not for navigation purposes, but for other players to see what's going on. Once you found some secret (boss) encounter in a cave or somewhere, other players around the planet will be notified on the map. that way it's much easier to provide help for or to get helped by others. same thing applies to public events. that way those events and encounters could be harder, or better even scale with player count - NPCs and wildlife (animals, monsters) need to populate world areas. - enemies spawn at different locations - enemies are busy for as long as they are not aware of a guardian's presence: playing some kind of alien board game, talking to each other, chasing smaller wildlife and fighting over that those critters amongst themselfes, doing computer stuff ... some of them may not have their weapon equipped and are desperately trying to arm themselves when they spot a guardian. that way bungie could make mob groups bigger. - make this a real thing: "you can see it - you can go there"! of course there are limits and we accept that. but it seems that there are so many places that are justi n front of us but we are locked away from discovering them by invisible walls. (open up the city!) - make PvP maps accessible through the main world maps. that would mean we'd get at least one new planet and a second separate area on earth - well that's what was promised 2 years ago anyways. I have to stop there before my head explodes

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              • Just gonna leave this here.........

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              • Edited by Borta Senglece: 8/30/2015 8:53:03 PM
                I agree with this post more than any other. They need to make the world way bigger and explorable. Example: [b]in Skyrim you find little caves, inside those caves are a new world entirely with gear and side quests secret artifacts and awesome display of art and detail. [/b] How about instead of concentrating on grind and leveling crap up expand the world you already have. Open up the cosmodrome more. Like make these places huge. I don't get why every planet is so fkn small. Such a huge disappointment when I found out all planets are just little beaten paths that everyone has to stay on... I want to find little caves that turn into secret hide outs for fallen or hive. Or maybe an underground city built by the vex 10x deeper and bigger than the vault of glass. Make Mars a barren desert where every hill can be climbed over. Only to find more war and fighting going on. Let us fly our ships around planets. [b]MAKE THE PLANETS BIGGER STOP THE GRIND I WANT TO EXPLORE MORE [/b]

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                • The lack of exploration opportunities was my first disappointment with Destiny. Bungie created these beautiful landscapes that beckoned exploration, but all I found was dead ends and kill barriers. There are many little nooks and crannies and curiosities that simply serve no purpose and have no explanation. Why go off the beaten path to check out a cave if there is nothing in there? But i was thinking that it doesn't have to be that way, why use Ghost to scan an area, then have a brief story of the area in holographic words that pop up on your HUD? Text boxes have been used to convey information since Final Fantasy, probably longer. Or take a page out of Bethesda's playbook and tell a story with a scene. Running around in the Wasteland, there are plenty shows of "show, don't tell" kind of stories. A skeleton next to a dried blood spatter and gun is a common sight, but it tells a little story. Imagine wandering around in the grottos, and in one the caves, there is a Fallen laid out on what looks like a Hive altar. That's enough information to let you know some Hive culture, as well as their relationship with the Fallen; not to mention, giving the Hive some personality. I feel these aren't drastic things, but little touches that pepper in a little flavor to a bland game world.

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                • Here's to hoping the dreadnaught is truly great.

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                • Maybe they should have focused on each planet with each expansion or standalone game. 20gb isn't a big enough space to have 4 world's of content to explore, while having the overhead of the online experience to bog it down. Or they could have possibly had each be generated in the sever when someone access the area to off load some overhead by not having to generate areas that people aren't in. I don't know, it's a tough bill to fill no matter how you look at it.

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                • hmm in this case i find myself asking more about why i have NO MAP then caring about exploring

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                • They announced Destiny as an Open World experience at E3 2013. A honest game company will open because they said so but Bungie is just a fraud.

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                • I trully hope the next Patrol areas in the next game are much bigger. Filled with optional areas to check out and gives a true sense of exploration. Heck we don't yet know the size of the map for the Dreadnaught.

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                  • I ate the hamster already can I have a bigger world now please?

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                  • BUMP.

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                  • Epic bump!

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                  • Forgot to say. Did any of you play guild wars 2? It was my first major MMO and they had a cool mechanic where they rewarded exploration. There were different places that were like jump puzzles. At the top you got rewarded for having been there. I think this was used in assassins creed as well. Once you made it through the jump puzzle you were rewarded with a brief animation showing off how awesome the area looked.

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