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Edited by FamilyRoomGames:
7/4/2015 9:31:06 PM
49
A Fair Way to Nerf Thorn
Thorn has been a serious topic of debate recently and I have seen many posts, videos, and people talking about ways to nerf this weapon.
(Disclaimer: this doesn't mean I am for or against nerfing thorn. I'm trying to form a balanced solution that doesn't make the weapon unusable but still makes it slightly less op)
The main problems:
The main problems with thorn are the speed of it's ttk(and the speed it can set up for a kill because DoT is a thing), it's range at which it can do so, and the special effects when hit by it can be kinda annoying(this one doesn't bother me too too much but I have heard complaints) Some would also argue that it's fire rate is too fast(and it's ability to consistently land headshots is to quick) as well but ill comment on this later.
My suggestions:
obviously if we nerf every single thing that people complain about then this weapons will be completely broken so I've tried to focus on the key things but still make it an option for competitive play.
1. Decrease the affect of the screen effect. (Not a big deal, it definitely isn't a must)
2. I believe that all hand cannons need a range nerf. This means add more significant drop off.
3. [b]GET RID OF THAT STUPID DoT...[/b]
Lol jk, but actually remove DoT. I would then create an effect based on the exotic perk (mark of the devourer) when shot by thorn it would activate this debuff that lasts as long as it's poison normally would maybe a couple seconds longer. It doesn't do any damage by instead stops all health and shield regen. This would prevent two shot kills but still create the sense of helplessness where they feel like they have to hide in a corner. The effect would also stop shield regen on majors and ultras or anything with a shield. And prevent the hive health buff thing that the knights do.
4. Slight tuning of other stats... Idc how this is done. It is up to bungie.
Please post any changes and how you think it should be nerfed or if it should at all. :D
Please stay nice out there guardians, remember who the real enemy is... The darkness! (And the stupid rng system)
TL:DR
Get rid of DoT and just make it cancel regen of health and shields. Range nerf + drop off range nerf. Small tweaks to make it a good hand cannon all around.
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Edited by X CARLO GUTI X: 7/8/2015 11:04:12 PMI don't know why people make so many suggestions when the solution is very simple. Decrease base damage to make a 3 shot kill instead of 2 shot kill. Decrease it's effective range by half. Too much you say? Not really considering thorn out guns sniper rifles easily...snipers! Seriously? That's broken and we all know it. I love Thorn but the nerf is coming and it's inevitable. My favorite weapon is TLW. That as well needs a nerf although it only needs a base damage reduction. Nothing more. The "fan fire" perk can't be touched, why? Because that's the whole identity of the weapon. Would you be ok with a fatebringer without firefly? Of course not... Same goes for TLW, you can't take fan fire perk away. Just reduce its damage. Same applies to Thorn perk "mark of the devourer"...we can't take that away since that's the weapon's identity. People or fan boys...don't hallucinate or cry because the nerf is real and it's coming. It's just that Bungie has other shit with TTK going on that nerfing weapons is down their list at the moment...but it'll happen. Thorn and TLW are getting nerfed. I just hope they do what I mentioned above because that would be the appropriate nerf.
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All hand cannons now receive a substantial damage drop off when outside their optimal range [b][u]Thorn[/u][/b] Aggressive Ballistics has been replaced with Linear Compensator Send It perk has been replaced with Flared Magwell Damage over time effect now does 4 damage per tick [u][b]Hawkmoon[/b][/u] Aggressive Ballistics has been replaced with Linear Compensator Hammerforged perk has been replaced with Single Point Sling [u][b]The Last Word[/b][/u] Aggressive Ballistics has been replaced with Field Choke Hip fire damage bonus can no longer trigger while ADS
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Make it where the DOT can't kill the target, but would take them down to the min health. It would be more of a weaken than a poison. That way you can't get the final kill across the map for just tagging the guy in the leg.
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A fair way would to decrease the rate of fire and the range. Only things that would be fair and not over nerf
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1 ReplyEdited by corujariousa: 7/8/2015 2:34:01 PMI do not want to offend anyone but I find very silly when I see proposals to solve PVP challenges w/ NERFs/BUFFs. Everytime Bungie took that action they messed up. See what happened to Suros Regime, Vex Mythoclast and Auto-rifles. More recently some PVP folks are calling for NERFS to Thorn and Gjallarhorn. Should Bungie also NERF all shotguns? Come on team, the problem is not the weapons. Players have to find the right strategy to cope with all factors. Once you get the weapon, I doubt you'd be on the complaining side. I see a lot of folks carrying Thorn and Hawkmoon getting killed by another weapon. Having one of these nice Exotics does not make anyone invincible. I hope Bungie undo the damage done to Auto-rifles and does not listen to any further requests to NERF weapons. There are serious matters they need to invest time/resources on (RNG/Loot System and Vault Space for example - I guess we can all agree on those). I have Thorn, Vex, Hawkmoon, etc. And I still such at PVP. :-) I accept the fact and deal with it. Once I develop the taste to shoot at other Guardians I'll practice more PVP and I am sure I'll improve at it. Until then, I'll use every frustration from getting killed on my few PVP attempts to learn from others strategies. BUNGIE, do not listen to all these cries. Instead of "NERFING" weapons for PVP, if you want to level things up consider perhaps a block of all exotics on PVP games. Perhaps that will leave results to skills only. But then again, folks may start complaining that Hunters move too quickly and Warlocks Nova Bombs are not fair and Titans Fist of Havok is OP. Folks it is not the weapon, it is the player. Find your strategy and you will win. In real life armed conflicts humans do that, why not in a video-game? Keep the fight in the game, peace everywhere else.
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I think it would be better if it slowed a players movement speed by 30% and reduced jump hight by 50% for 2 seconds. Rather then damage.
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NO. FOR FUÇKS SAKE PEOPLE. IF YOU TAKE AWAY THE TWO SHOT ABILITY ITS A WORTHLESS GUN. Reduce the fire rate, stability and reload. But if you take away the two shot there's no point in me picking that over my red hand.
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2 RepliesThen it would suck. You probably don't even have thorn. Git gud
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Tone down the DoT, cut it in half. Add to the DoT an erosion of the Super energy ~ 1 - 3% per tick (devouring the light). Severely nerf The Last Word's range, and balance all hand cannons accordingly. This should keep Thorn a power weapon without it being overpowered and fix the problems with the other exotic hand cannons.
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5 RepliesKeep it exactly the same range impact dot all that The only change? [b][i][u]Make it a secondary weapon.[/u][/i][/b]
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Ultras arent affected by stuff like supress, which is basically what you are suggesting. Health regeneration supression. Omnigul is a major, a long with Ir Yut, and that is why they are affected.
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1 ReplyEdited by Prysmuh: 7/5/2015 1:45:59 PMWithout dot it wouldnt be exotic anymore. If the dot damage was adjusted for less, sure thatd work. But without dot itd be horrible. Switch send it to hand loaded. Problem solved.
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The Thorn doesn't need to be nerfed. Everyone else needs to just git gud.
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Axe the dot in crucible, make its range actually drop off like other hand cannons.
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2 RepliesIf you really want to balance out thorn they should bring down the rate of fire and stability to where hawkmoon is.. This will slightly reduce the ttk.. So only skilled players who can actually get the headshot can take the advantage... On the other side of things they should just restore the autos to where they were before..
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3 RepliesEdited by Swiftlock: 7/5/2015 12:15:53 PMThorn has a low base impact. Getting rid of DoT automatically makes it inferior to Last Word/Hawkmoon. Just delaying shield regen doesn't make up for this. Hell, even a well-rolled Red Hand or Fulcrum now becomes a more appealing choice. Nerfing Thorn into the floor like that doesn't sound fun or constructive at all.
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Nerf range, make the DOT a movement barb. Movement barb is if you move you get damaged, it still would retain a "unique" feature.
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2 RepliesThen if people want to nerf thorn why dont they make auto rifles better pulse better.Wepons such as suros could make a comeback and then thorn will have many problems.
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4 RepliesAgree with 1 and 2. Third however, I say a reasonable idea is to make it so that the DoT can't kill. It could bring you to your lowest health but can't kill. This will prevent people from double shooting and running. That is our biggest problem with the thorn.
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3 RepliesBy taking out its DoT and using your idea, that makes mark of devour nearly useless in pve
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Great idea!!!
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The Thorn is a huge issue in the Crucible no doubt, my way of balancing it is the DoT on it, maybe instead of taking away health just make it increase the time for health regen to start back up maybe say add 3 extra seconds before health starts to come back
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3 RepliesI think they need to just have a separate weapon set for crucible so you can truly balance it.
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https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/134338609/0/0 Were almost on the same page
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3 RepliesNever knew a 40 year old vergin can make people go to the dark side
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Reduce range
