[quote]In war their are atrocities; on all front's good and bad men are blended together. You would refuse association with good men, simply because a few scumbags were bad?[/quote] Or I could just not fight? I'm not looking to associate myself with the military in general, and I'm actively disaccociating myself with the bad side of it. [quote]Also you cite Vietnam and Iraq but what of those who secured your home, I for instance being American recognize without the revolution I would still be British, without the Civil War, there might still be slavery. Without world war 2 France and Poland would be Germany today. were all of those men simply to be categorized as "our murderers fighting someone elses?" Did they not have more value and gravitas to their actions? So good of you to point our recent history, but what of the Wars upon which Memorial Day was founded? Do you truly find the souls of those men lost as trivial murderers?[/quote] Were they not killing peoples families to protect their own? Infantry in those wars were almost all coerced into it. What real choice did they have? I can acknowledge the sacrifice soldiers in World War 2 made, and what that does for me today. But I can also acknowledge it wasn't their fight - on either side. My great grandfather killed a German soldier literally because of he didn't, that German soldier was going to kill him. The civil war and the American revolution is the same again, but I'm not American, and so I'm not particularly familiar with American history.

[quote]Or I could just not fight? I'm not looking to associate myself with the military in general, and I'm actively disaccociating myself with the bad side of it.[/quote] As I said in the other thread, you seem principled for one who would drop all of them if told by the government you had to. [quote]Were they not killing peoples families to protect their own?[/quote] well millions of french polish and russians would probably say we were giving them a hand in being not continuously ethnically cleansed by a madman. But I'm sure you understand their point of view better, even with many of them being buried in mass graves. [quote]Infantry in those wars were almost all coerced into it. What real choice did they have?[/quote] Post-depression? See the world, travel, fight a madman in europe who will likely not stop there. Conscription can be your protest on every day except the day where we remember the dead, heck you might even see a little more support. [quote]I can acknowledge the sacrifice soldiers in World War 2 made, and what that does for me today. But I can also acknowledge it wasn't their fight - on either side. My great grandfather killed a German soldier literally because of he didn't, that German soldier was going to kill him.[/quote] I honor your grandfather for his service, whether he was willing or not, he stood between you and annihilation. for that he should be remembered. [quote]The civil war and the American revolution is the same again, but I'm not American, and so I'm not particularly familiar with American history.[/quote] This is why I'm still here, you don't two shits about my country or its dead soldiers, so you coming here on this day and this way is both inflammatory and asinine, at your next family funeral, please invite me via zoom, so I can remind your family about every questionable thing your family member did. I won't come in person because I don't really care enough. That is how your thinking registers here.

[quote] This is why I'm still here, you don't two shits about my country or its dead soldiers, so you coming here on this day and this way is both inflammatory in asinine, at your next family funeral, please invite me via zoom, so I can remind your family about every questionable thing your family member did. I won't come in person because I don't really care enough. That is how your thinking registers here.[/quote] Your country has a military presence in my country. That isn't something I'm comfortable with, and certainly makes me think less of it. Regardless, though, there's definitely been crossed wires here one way or another. I care immensely about dead soldiers and what a conflict they were pushed into means for the entire world. What the actual issue is is that I don't hold value [i]strictly[/i] in the fact that they've served. I know a few ex-military personnel, and I respect them for who they are. What doesn't interest me is that they shot someone in another country.

[quote]What the actual issue is is that I don't hold value strictly in the fact that they've served. I know a few ex-military personnel, and I respect them for who they are. What doesn't interest me is that they shot someone in another country.[/quote] I understand, and the fact that the Us military maintains a presence in your country isn't right, this is not my meaning Please understand that on today of all days, we set aside this time for the dead, not the military and not Veterans. War is hell, no one wants it, no one deserves to be made to fight it. Your comment incensed me on the grounds that today is not about War, it is about the pain that lingers after, and the remembrance of what was built from the ashes to help ease that pain. It was not ordained to remember the politicians that started the war, or the horrible men who commited atrocities under its Steel umbrella, but the good men who chose to stand between our home and others. Or the man who had no choice and was simply trying to stay alive. Even those whom no one remembers are honored, On the tomb of the unknown soldier the words "Here Rests In Honored Glory An American Soldier Known But To God" The president of the US lays a wreath on his grave every memorial day, and it has become a symbolic gesture to all unknown heroes, that no dead soldier must be forgotten. That is todays meaning to us Americans. Not support for the military, not support for Veterans. (Although they absolutely deserve better imho.)

[quote] Please understand that on today of all days, we set aside this time for the dead, not the military and not Veterans. War is hell, no one wants it, no one deserves to be made to fight it. Your comment incensed me on the grounds that today is not about War, it is about the pain that lingers after, and the remembrance of what was built from the ashes to help ease that pain. It was not ordained to remember the politicians that started the war, or the horrible men who commited atrocities under its Steel umbrella, but the good men who chose to stand between our home and others. Or the man who had no choice and was simply trying to stay alive. Even those whom no one remembers are honored, On the tomb of the unknown soldier the words "Here Rests In Honored Glory An American Soldier Known But To God" The president of the US lays a wreath on his grave every memorial day, and it has become a symbolic gesture to all unknown heroes, that no dead soldier must be forgotten. That is todays meaning to us Americans. Not support for the military, not support for Veterans. (Although they absolutely deserve better imho.)[/quote] Like I said, I'm fully aware my comments can be antagonistic, but I'm not going in with intention of getting people irate - I'm just musing. Could I have chosen a better time and place? Yeah, almost definitely.