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Edited by Bucket of Tears:
2/12/2013 3:13:01 AM
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What is so wrong about voter ID?
Honestly, we have to show ID to do many things including board planes and purchasing firearms. Why is it so wrong to require people to prove that they are a legal US citizen to vote? After all, every right has limits or certain exceptions as some like to claim here.
Bottom line: If I have to show ID to purchase a gun, you can show ID to vote.
EDIT: By the way, it is federal law that if it is your first time voting you have to show your ID, I dont see why this shouldnt be extended.
English
#Offtopic
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1 ReplyEdited by M37h3w3: 2/13/2013 4:39:40 AM[quote]Bottom line: If I have to show ID to purchase a gun,[/quote] Except you don't? The cost to me for an ID card seems reasonable given how much I have to use it. That said, I'm not a poor minority living in the bad part of town trying to live day to day while working two jobs. The fact that voter ID laws came around when voter fraud was already extremely low, there were attempts to purge the voter pools of illegible voters turned up incredibly minor number of people, many Republican states trying to restrict access to voting polls specifically in the poor districts to drive the poor votes away, and the Republican party stating that their goal was to make Obama a one term President leave no doubt in my mind that voter ID laws were only about voter suppression. Jim Crow Laws 2.0.
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If election fraud did occur, it would be large scale rigging, not a large amount of individuals doing it. Voter ID is for the moment, useless.
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Because a Voter ID will probably end up being something you have to pay for, which limits who can vote. And it gives them the ability to say, "Oh, your ID isn't valid. You can't vote."
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It's not like its hard to get a drivers license and voters registration card. I'm 17 and have both.
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Take a look through the US constitution for voting, and you will find that the founders were pretty much (like many things) "keep this out of the hands of the feds, let the states sort out what works for them and compare/contrast it with their neighbors". There is no spelled out "thou shalt vote/poll in the following manner" in the US constitution. It's not mentioned in the Bill of Rights. Some argue (please grab your panties now, you don't want them to get all twisted) that the rights of "The People" (amendments 1-9) are far more expressed and outlined than the right (and process) to vote. Amendment 10 (the real kicker that no one seems to read anymore) would probably be what "covers voting". "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people." So, some would argue (I hear the panties twisting, stop it, I am saying SOME and "would") that the right of "THE PEOPLE" to keep and bear arms is more explicitly protected than the right to vote. At least based on how one choose to read, interpret (or argue against) what the guys in white wigs and short pants wrote.
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7 RepliesEdited by Recon Number 54: 2/12/2013 7:15:50 PMIf the state (or private entities with the state's support) are capable of requiring/requesting an ID in order for me or anyone else to; Enter an airport Cash a check Sign a legal document in front of a notary Buy a drink Buy a cigar Register for Selective Services Donate blood Drive a car Use a credit card Apply for a job Rent a car Get a Sam's club membership Pick up my prescription Accepting a package from FedEx Buying a firearm and otherwise demonstrate that I am who I claim to be (or think that I am)? Why would I consider it to be onerous, intrusive, unfair, unreasonable or disenfranchising to be asked (just like above) "can we please verify that you are who you claim to be" before I place a ballot (which is both as everyday as the above, and just as (if not more) important an event)? Show me someone who does NONE of those AND still wants to vote? I'll show them where they can get an ID card for free. But, they will have to show some proof of (once more) who they are. But if someone is THAT far out of the system, that far off of the registration (the lists, not the camps)? How can someone be that removed from governmental interaction and even know when it is time to vote? Or, is it possible that if there is a population that detached, perhaps their votes are for sale? Hmmmm. No, that wouldn't be possible. How can someone decide to have a mobile phone but no ID? I can understand that it is possible, but I can't for the life of me understand why it would be desireable or even beneficial to be that.... I am sorry, but the only words that I can think of is illegitimate or illiterate.
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Non U.S citizens aren't voting.
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Edited by A Good Troll: 2/12/2013 7:48:31 PMJust as an aside, I'll point out a lot of countries require voter ID. Canada, Germany, France, Finland just as a few examples all requre voter ID to vote. Frequently these countries are cited by Democrats in the United States as countries to emulate and aspire to be like.
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Edited by Braydzz: 2/12/2013 7:29:07 PM"Sir you have already voted" "I could have sworn I have never voted" Also I don't know about the states but in Canada you have to be 18 to vote and the ID is mainly to prove its you and that you are able to legally vote. I'd also like to mention that it is impossible to live in this day and age without ID. I have a passport and everytime I go somewhere and I don't take it cause I don't think I need it Life always surprises me.
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10 RepliesEdited by Obi Wan Stevobi: 2/12/2013 3:49:41 PMPoll taxes, both at the state and federal level, are illegal. You are not required to have a photo ID. It just so happens most people have them because they drive or travel abroad. Getting that photo ID costs money. May not be much, but the amount is irrelevant. You cannot put up a financial barrier to voting. There is a reason this issue is always pushed by republicans. It's an attempt to suppress demographics that usually aren't favorable to them. [url=http://www4.uwm.edu/eti/barriers/DriversLicense.pdf]Wisconsin study on valid IDs[/url] [quote]Many adults do not have either a drivers license or a photo ID. An estimated 23 percent of persons aged 65 and over do not have a Wisconsin drivers license or a photo ID. The population of elderly persons 65 and older without a drivers license or a state photo ID totals 177,399, and of these 70 percent are women. While racial data was not available on the state population with photo IDs, 91 percent of the state’s elderly without a Wisconsin drivers license are white. An estimated 98,247 Wisconsin residents ages 35 through 64 also do not have either a drivers license or a photo ID.[/quote] [quote]Minorities and poor populations are the most likely to have drivers license problems. Less than half (47 percent) of Milwaukee County African American adults and 43 percent of Hispanic adults have a valid drivers license compared to 85 percent of white adults in the Balance of State University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee Employment and Training Institute, www.eti.uwm.edu, June 2005. 2 (BOS, i.e., outside Milwaukee County). The situation for young adults ages 18-24 is even worse -- with only 26 percent of African Americans and 34 percent of Hispanics in Milwaukee County with a valid license compared to 71 percent of young white adults in the Balance of State.[/quote] [quote]Students without a Wisconsin drivers license or a Wisconsin photo ID would need to obtain either one to vote. Those students and young adults living away from home but retaining their permanent home address on their drivers license need to provide proof of residence to vote prior to registration under current laws. Because the drivers license is a valid ID, regardless of address, few if any in this population would have a photo ID with a current address. These individuals may have a Wisconsin or out-of-state drivers license but not one with a current address. At UWM, Marquette University, and the University of Wisconsin-Madison, a total of 12,624 students live in residence halls, but only 280 (2 percent) have drivers licenses with these dorms’ addresses. All others require special handling to vote under proposed and current legislation.[/quote] It's like a silver election winning bullet for Republicans if you can suddenly prevent a large portion of women, minorities, and college students from voting by requiring them to take extra steps, spend extra time, and extra money to vote. So, I imagine we'll continue to see these laws being pushed before every election. Jim Crow V2.
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You want your answer, go check out Achilles1108's post on the subject.
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1 ReplyEdited by VIC: 2/12/2013 6:08:33 AMI don't think the issue was so much that people wanted it, it was an issue of when. If people really cared about it, why not make it a thing during a time that's not right before an election? How come the issue has been pretty much dropped entirely (or at least not publicized as much) since the election?
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3 RepliesEdited by Quantum: 2/12/2013 6:18:07 AMBecause the voter ID laws are just scams to prevent minorities from voting. Voter fraud is not a major problem. It isn't even a minor problem, the number of cases of voter fraud are very small. In the future, as ID's get cheaper, it would be something to do, but not before an election, and certainly not when people can't afford it. If significant amounts of Americans can't vote because of a voter fraud issue that doesn't exist, then that state is doing it horribly wrong. The laws are not needed at the moment. [b] If there is an easily issued, cheap government ID that can be acquired without preventing more than 1 million Americans from voting easily, I'll be all for voter ID.[/b]
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i'm seeing a bunch of arguments about what's wrong with this and no replies op's part. why make the thread if you're not even going to engage, yo. if you're that shut off to everyone's explanation's you've already shut off any intention to take heed of something [i]you asked for[/i] rude.
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There is nothing wrong. Just liberals trying to get as many votes as possible.
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11 RepliesEdited by A Good Troll: 2/12/2013 3:55:47 PMI think it needs to exist and I think all these "poll tax" arguments are retarded. If you can't take the time to go get a driver's license you probably don't have the mental capacity to make an informed voting decision anyway. As anecdotal evidence, both myself and my wife are active registered voters in both Virginia and North Carolina after we moved. I get Virginia voter mail to my [i]North Carolina address[/i]. I've three times contacted Virginia to take me off active voter registration and I still get mail. I could easily douple dip on voting.
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Because it's primarily used to disuade specific demographics from voting, like the long lines in Florida. There isn't a problem with voter fraud in the US, so it's a solution looking for a problem, unnecessary cost. If you require IDs to vote, they must be available for free due to laws prohibiting cost to voting. Then there's the problem of jurisdictions not making that fact known to would-be voters. I'd be fine with it if there was a national program to ensure every single citizen had an ID that also functioned as a passport, social security+healthcare (nationalized single payer of course) card. It should be the duty of the state to ensure that citizens have minimal barriers to voicing their opinion.
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es racist holmes or sahmthing
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There's nothing wrong about it, but a lot of people who argue about it are stupid so it gets more controversy when it really shouldn't.
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1 ReplyWhen I've voted they've asked for my ID...
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For one thing, there's not that much actual voter fraud committed in the United States. Secondly, the law itself isn't really the issue with some people, it's the targets of the law. Almost exclusively voter ID laws were pushed by Republican-controlled legislatures in Democratic or swing states. They disproportionately affect minorities and the poor, frequent Democrat voters, and the rules behind acquiring voter ID are sometimes needlessly complicated and obtuse to discourage voters. Essentially, some people argue it's voter suppression.
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It's a waste of money. Certain Republicans in my state were trying to have it pushed through, because (my speculations) it distracted the Democrats from focusing on the election. Voter fraud is virtually non-existent. It's nothing but scumbag politics. The same Republicans were also trying to pass a bill the illegalized gay marriage in my state. Which, by the way, was already not legal. I hate politics so much.
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15 RepliesYou say this from a middle-class perspective. If your really poor and only have like 20 bucks, you'll probably want to spend that money on feeding your family instead of buying ID. Voter fraud is so much of a rare occurrence anyway, it isnt needed.
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1 ReplyFrom what I've seen, democrats want to have an edge on voting, and illegal voters usually vote for the democrats.
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You already have to prove that you're a U.S. citizen to register to vote. Showing an ID wouldn't stop most voter fraud (we're talking about 1 or 2 cases an election here).
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9 RepliesBecause it has been show to unfairly keep the poor and minorities from voting.
