If you go to heaven, but someone you love with all your heart goes to hell, are you technically in hell too because you can never see them? Or are you cruelly tricked into thinking a “fake” soul is the person you love? Either way, what kind of god would do that to a child who has done everything he asked of them?
English
#Offtopic
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I'll be going to Valhalla after dying in glorious combat.
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38 RepliesIf free will is the reason there is evil in the world, does that mean there’s no free will in heaven?
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If they go to hell it makes me wonder what how high their KDA had to be...
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I'm not sold there is an afterlife. But say there is. What makes you certain you would care the same way you would now about your scenario? Strip away body and mind, and what part of your identity remains with the soul? Additionally, without those physical constraints what perspectives and understandings would be available to you then that you don't have now?
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Free will. If you cannot understand that, then I don't know what to tell you.
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11 RepliesEdited by TheArtist: 5/1/2019 12:33:51 PMMissed the point. Christianity sees there as beign three kinds of Love. Eros. Filios. Agape. The first two are the "conditional loves" of material existence. The later is considered to be spiritual or unconditional love. Eros is sexual/romantic love. Filios is the love you feel for family, friends, child for a parent or parent for a child. Agape is love that is unconditonal and impersonal. In situations of disasters, when you see someone risk their life to save a stranger, or the love you see people with spiritual maturity show for others....that is Agape. That is the kind of love that pervades Heaven. So the person who is in Heaven would be experiencing Love (agape) from so many different sources the he or she will likely not miss the "loved one" who is in Hell. Especially considering that their relationship while on Earth was probably a difficult and unsatisfying one (the person went to Hell....lets get real). So the seperation is harder on the damned soul than the saved one.....adding to the punishment of the damned. Dante explores this quite a bit in "The Inferno". There are NIne Circles of Hell...and the deeper you go the more outrageous the sins and evil become. Those in the first Circles were guily of lesser sins. So part of their suffering is the wish to be remembered....but knowing they will eventually be forgotten and alone. As you go deeper into Hell the suffering is reversed. These beings wish to be forgotten because of the heinousness of their crimes, and become angry if they are recognized. Part of their suffering is the pain of the conscience they didn't have in life. What is interesting in the poem is the transformation of Dante himself as he goes deeper. At first he feels compassion for the suffering of the damned he meets in the first Circles. But as he goes deeper, he starts to feel more apathetic towards it.....then ultimately even starts to add to it. Mocking them and adding to their Torment. As part of his metaphorical recognition and rejection of sin.
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16 RepliesGood Christians love everyone equally, like Commies.
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[i] [/i]
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6 RepliesI doubt you truly care, but here’s a biblical reply if you care to look it up. Revelations 21:4
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31 RepliesOk, just to make sure I understand your hypothetical question... Step 1: You love someone with all your heart Step 2: You accepted God and they didn't Step 3: You go to Heaven and they go to Hell I don't see how this is different from literally everybody on Earth. Christians are called to love everybody with all their heart, and not everybody goes to Heaven. It's unfortunate, but that's the way it is. It's an individual's choice to accept God or not, and it has no bearing on current Christians that have Heaven promised to them. As for grieving their choice, yes. You will grieve their choice not to accept God when you are in Heaven, but it is grieving or mourning, not the eternal punishment that is Hell. I don't understand your question about a "fake" soul - everyone has a soul. Nobody's fake. And finally, what kind of God would do this to his child, you ask? A just and honest God. The example I usually give is one of a parent: Why would a parent discipline their kid with a belt when it hurts so much? Because they love them, but they also must enforce their rules. Easiest question all day.
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[quote]If you go to heaven, but someone you love with all your heart goes to hell, are you technically in hell too because you can never see them? Or are you cruelly tricked into thinking a “fake” soul is the person you love? Either way, what kind of god would do that to a child who has done everything he asked of them?[/quote] If you are in heaven, with God, you’ve chosen to love Him with all your heart. The love you experience and know in heaven will far surpass the love you experienced from that loved one. There will be a time to weep and mourn, and God will be weeping and mourning right alongside you, for every human is His child after all. Say to them, As I live, declares the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live; turn back, turn back from your evil ways, for why will you die, O house of Israel? Ezekiel 33:11 God doesn’t owe you anything for doing good. Doing good is the standard that you should have been intrinsically striving for anyways. It’s a matter of whether or not your loved one chose to love God or reject Him, and God doesn’t force you or anyone to make that decision.
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2 RepliesI mean, nobody has ever proven souls actually exist. It's just hard for intelligent people to contemplate supernatural hypotheticals like this, when the entire premise is a derivative of a Biblical fairytale.
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8 RepliesI don’t think I could sit comfortably in heaven knowing that others are suffering for eternity.
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2 RepliesSome people believe that we won't recognize anyone in Heaven; not friend or loved ones. That is to prevent us knowing who made it to Heaven and who didn't.
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No, the point of heaven is for you to be with God. If that person you love goes to hell. That’s their fault, not God’s.
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Honestly i don't know. Its one of those questions that will get awnserd when we get there.
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10 RepliesOk, purely hypothetically here, this is kinda how I see it for that type of situation. You know how the Oriental's have the whole Yin & Yang philosophy? I think the good part of you would ascend to Heaven while the bad part went to Hell or ceased to exist. So that good part of the person you love, they will be there with you in Heaven. I also thought this a little further, so like what if your love dies and you get re-married? Well, I think that part of you that had the connection with your dead spouse, they are reunited when you pass, but the part of you that formed the new bond with the new spouse, that part of you goes to be with them. Anywho, that is just my musings, because none of us will truly know until we pass away.
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9 RepliesTheoretically, you wouldn't care. Heaven isn't some physical garden in the clouds, its a metaphysical state. It's bliss. Pure, unadulterated bliss. To miss them would be to suffer and you'd have moved beyond suffering. The thought of losing them wouldn't cross your mind, similar to how we theoretically don't miss people we loved in past lives for those who believe in reincarnation. Only in this case, your "new life" is an eternal one with God. That may seem cold and cruel, but it'd be effectively like waking from a dream. Do we lament the loss of those we've met in our dreams? To an eternal self, this life would amount to less than a dream.
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Say you just somehow got a billion dollars. You’ve bought the most biggest and fanciest house you can find and you can’t wait to share it with your wife. The day before you move in, your wife murders someone and goes to jail. You’re happy in your house, but wish you could have saved your wife. I think that’s kind of what heaven will be. When we first get there, it won’t much be a sadness that they’re not there, but more a disappointment in yourself that you didn’t reach them. Eventually Jesus will wipe everyone’s tears away and everybody in heaven will be happy.
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Edited by Cozyman Cam: 4/30/2019 10:34:30 PM[quote]If you go to heaven, but someone you love with all your heart goes to hell, are you technically in hell too because you can never see them?[/quote][spoiler]"Theologians have sometimes asked whether we shall 'know one another' in Heaven, and whether the particular love-relations worked out on earth would then continue to have any significance. It seems reasonable to reply: 'It may depend what kind of love it had become, or was becoming, on earth.' For, surely, to meet in the eternal world someone for whom your love in this, however strong, had been merely natural, would not be (on that ground) even interesting. Would it not be like meeting in adult life someone who had seemed to be a great friend at your preparatory school solely because of common interests and occupations? If there was nothing more, if he was not a kindred soul, he will now be a total stranger. Neither of you now plays conkers. You no longer want to swop your help with his French exercise for his help with your arithmetic. In Heaven, I suspect, a love that had never embodied Love Himself would be equally irrelevant. For Nature has passed away. All that is not eternal is eternally out of date. But I must not end on this note, I dare not--and all the less because longings and terrors of my own prompt me to do so--leave any bereaved and desolate reader confirmed in the widespread illusion that reunion with the loved dead is the goal of the Christian life. The denial of this may sound harsh and unreal in the ears of the broken hearted, but it must be denied. 'Thou hast made us for thyself,' said St. Augustine, 'and our heart has no rest till it comes to Thee.' This, so easy to believe for a brief moment before the altar or, perhaps, half-praying, half-meditating in an April wood, sounds like mockery beside a deathbed. But we shall be far more truly mocked if, casting this way, we pin our comfort on the hope--perhaps even with the aid of séance and necromancy--of some day, this time forever, enjoying the earthly Beloved again, and no more. It is hard not to imagine that such an endless prolongation of earthly happiness would be completely satisfying. But, if I may trust my own experience, we get at once a sharp warning that there is something wrong. The moment we attempt to use our faith in the other world for this purpose, that faith weakens. The moments in my life when it was really strong have all been moments when God Himself was central in my thoughts. Believing in Him, I could then believe in Heaven as a corollary. But the reverse process--believing first in reunion with the Beloved, and then, for the sake of that reunion, believing in Heaven, and finally, for the sake of Heaven, believing in God--this will not work. One can of course imagine things. But a self-critical person will soon be increasingly aware that the imagination at work is his own; he knows he is only weaving a fantasy. And simpler souls will find the phantoms they try to feed on void of all comfort and nourishment, only to be stimulated into some semblance of reality by pitiful efforts of self-hypnotism, and perhaps by the aid of ignoble pictures and hymns and (what is worse) witches. We find thus by experience that there is no good applying to Heaven for earthly comfort. Heaven can give heavenly comfort; no other kind. And earth cannot give earthly comfort either. There is no earthly comfort in the long run. For the dream of finding our end, the thing we were made for, in a Heaven of purely human love could not be true unless our whole Faith were wrong. We were made for God. Only by being in some respect like Him, only by being a manifestation of His beauty, lovingkindness, wisdom or goodness, has any earthly Beloved excited our love. It is not that we have loved them too much, but that we did not quite understand what we were loving. It is not that we shall be asked to turn from them, so dearly familiar, to a Stranger. When we see the face of God we shall know that we have always known it. He has been a party to, has made, sustained and moved moment by moment within, all our earthly experiences of innocent love. All that was true love in them was, even on earth, far more His than ours, and ours only because His. In Heaven there will be no anguish and no duty of turning away from our earthly Beloveds. First, because we shall have turned already; from the portraits to the Original, from the rivulets to the Fountain, from the creatures He made lovable to Love Himself. But secondly, because we shall find them all in Him. By loving Him more than them we shall love them more than we now do." - C.S. Lewis[/spoiler][quote]...what kind of god would do that to a child who has done everything he asked of them?[/quote]Do what exactly?
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[quote]Dad and I are cool now...[/quote]-Cheezus
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3 RepliesIt’s kinda hard to figure out what you’re asking. But if you choose to be saved and they don’t, they go to hell. You go to heaven.
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2 RepliesBefore I answer, you need this background info: [quote] I won’t get preachy on you, but I believe in three degrees of glory, simplified crash course: the highest degree for those who follow God and are good. You become like God. Then one for those who didn’t follow God but where still good. The lowest for those who lived wickedly, it’s like earth without evil. The only way to enter hell or “outer darkness” is to become good enough to see Gods face on earth, and tell him you do not believe he exists to his face.[/quote] Those in the higher two kingdoms of glory are allowed to travel between each kingdom and be with those they loved that may not have reached the same level of understanding on earth. There will be agency in heaven. And there will not be evil, as there will no longer be evil spirits to tempt you, and you will have not desire for it. We are all beings of light that are good.
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<I'd imagine heaven being more like a personalized experience, just like I imagine hell. For example, my heaven would be a vastly different experience than yours, same for hell.>
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1 ReplyEdited by Ogma: Destroyer of Worlds: 4/30/2019 6:01:43 PMEither we’d still miss the individual, or we have been fundamentally altered so as to not miss that person. The same applies for the notion of evil. If the capacity for evil is necessary in order for us to have free will, then evil still exists in heaven, or we don’t have free will in heaven. If the former, how is that any different than here? If the latter, why would I want to go there?