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Edited by Spawn:
2/20/2018 1:03:58 PM
28
Reworks. (Destiny and Warframe)
I would like to just open with: I love D1 and Warframe. Monster Hunter over both but that's another topic.
So I was listening a video recently while reading some patch notes and something occurred to me.
Like in the recent twab thing we heard it takes months to rework our guns in Destiny 2. Then I got to thinking, "Ok so how many guns are there to rework?" All and all not that many. Then as I was reading Warframe patch notes I remembered. Multiple individual stat changes to over 100 weapons were announced and ready to go within a month or so. May be thinking the release date wrong. Along side 2 new bosses at basic Destiny Raid level. Multiple things of content dropping fairly quick at that.
Just confuses me that a team of less people can do weekly livestreams, work on new content, work on old content, constantly communicate with the player base, and more then a team of roughly 700 people.
Oh well back to grinding out Nergigante for me.
[spoiler]Moderator edit: This thread has been updated with tags that are more appropriate.
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English
#destiny2
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Pro tip never go from warframe to Destiny and dive into the crucible. LB (L1) and A (X) don't do what you think they do in Destiny
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12 RepliesNot to mention make a much, much better game with many times more content. If you play Warframe for a month and don't notice how badly it crushes Destiny, you aren't paying attention.
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3 RepliesThe other big difference is that in Warframe PvP is a side note the whole game revolves around the coop pve and they were smart and separated PvP and pve so you can use crazy op builds in pve and have fun but the PvP loadouts only allow certain builds so the whole pay to win argument is total BS plus I didn't already spend $ 90 on Warframe just to get the game so buying a $20 plat pack to buy cosmetics and extra inventory slots doesn't bother me
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4 RepliesYou do know they removed Warframe’s “raids” for rework recently. The same way they did the the lost sectors like 2 years ago and they still have not brought them back. Not bashing Warframe since I have an Excalibur Prime(do you?) but the facts are the facts. But they can get away with it because free game is free.
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Edited by Nimue: 2/22/2018 4:31:59 PMWhen DE drops an update it always has a million changes. Sometimes they nerf things too hard which pisses me off since its not a pvp game but they also do crazy buffs to things too. They constantly do something knew and they get little to no recognition for it. They work 3x as hard as bungie and they actually DO things instead of saying “yeah we are working on it check back in 8 months.” Its a shame Bungie doesn’t have as much passion for their work as DE does. Pathetic, actually :/ if warframe had a decent pvp set up it would be more popular but the pvp they have now just isnt that good. I cant even find matches most of the time
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It's because Warframe is a superior game to Destiny in every way and DE is a superior developer to Bungie, in every way.
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1 ReplyWarframe is ok in my book. With that said, I couldn't compare firing a WF gun to firing a destiny gun. Warframe is fine. A bit pedestrian though when compared to the artistry I feel with each and every gun in destiny. That destiny is slower to course correct doesn't surprise me. There is way more going on under the surface of that trigger pull.
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2 RepliesBoth are different games can't compare them d1 has more challenging staff then warframe has Warframe raids are crap While d1 raids shine
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Edited by ferial56: 2/22/2018 12:59:20 PMWatch out for Nergigante’s one shot move!! (The killer dive bomb) Also what’s going on in Warframe as of the moment, haven’t touched the game in a while.
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5 RepliesYes and WF guns was boosted not nerfed.
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When they say 'rework' what they really mean is take a better devils, repaint it, give it a different name and flavor text and voila! Brand new gun.
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62 RepliesWarframe is a pile of garbage. Movement sucks graphics sucks. Easy to get lost and pay to win screw that sink hole!
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I also like MHW, but f__k tempered Kirin. On the point why Bungie work slower. They are corporate, and need approval from n-tiers of management (Some with no clue about the game other than the bottom line) and change processes. The Warframe team has a rich history, but in essence decided to put their heart and soul into this one IP. They can do whatever they want, as many times they want, since the whole team loves their product. Sure, they also have QA and approvals, but from a different level of people who understand why it was done. Bungo on the other hand need to balance the need of the core business and shareholders for the holding company, with the actual needs of the community. This is not an easy task on itself. I most definitely aren't defending them, since I think bad decisions were made for the D2 design right from the start.
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I used to hate when people would mention how they're gonna go play Warframe. I played it before and knew it was good but couldn't stand people saying this. Then I starting paying attention to them the same way I do other game devs. There's a huge difference in how they interact with their community. Watch one dev stream and you'll see the difference. It's night and day compared to Bungie's streams. You can notice the ease at which they talk with each other. To speak on their weapon update. DE not only put out a detailed list, but explained their reasoning for it. A lot better than Bungie's canned response of 'we have stats'.
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5 RepliesBecause they aren't split up with teams making expansions and sequels. Fewer people are working on the current Destiny 2 build to actually fix it that is why. Bungie has obligations to create expansion 2 and expansion 3 now. Thus their teams are getting splintered off. Warframe just has the current build so their teams aren't splintering nearly as much. Common sense really if you look at it with a business pair of eyes or know video game design and how it works.
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2 RepliesHere is the deal. Warframe is all about the sandbox. Characters, abilities, weapons, and enemies. They made a game where they can use cookie cutter environments add variation of mission types and keep people engaged with new ways to do those things repeatedly. I’ve been playing warframe for 3 years and aside from the open world area there have been little to no major gameplay changes to speak of. Also the actual “Story missions” that have actual gameplay variation can be completed in a very short amount of time. Destiny on the other hand has focused on creating tailored activities. This is more time consuming and therefore the amount of perceived content is far less. However the main story missions and whatever they call the side quests(can’t think of the stupid name cause I didn’t do them) were very well made and were engaging. This is where the issue comes. Destiny could use their sandbox to add survival modes, towers defense modes, left for dead style missions, arenas, and so much more. But they focus on structured balanced hand made missions. This is the fundament issue with the split in the Destiny community. Many of the hardcore D1 fans were hoping for a push a little more towards warframe with build variations in the sandbox, ultra repeatable activities, and lots of exciting things to grind for. However D2 went more towards the super balanced and hand crafted nature of a call of duty style main story. It’s not bad by any stretch of the imagination, it’s a very big difference in philosophy. I love warframe, and D1. D2 disappointed me personally, but it didn’t surprise me.
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It's obscene the massive difference between a free game and the $200 "experience" Bungie will want us to pay for. Shit the most recent stream the devs asked how much is the COMMUNITY is willing to pay for MICROTRANSACTIONS. No loot boxes no hiding they just went up and asked what price the community thinks is fair for their MTX and they damn well know their community will pay top dollar because of the quality of COSMETICS isnt devauled by some slot machine or RNG especially considering the main game is packed with content. They know what they're getting upfront and paying premium price for it.
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3 RepliesEdited by Vork: 2/20/2018 2:01:47 PMI agree it seems crazy but... Maybe smaller teams can communicate better and work faster. Maybe DE actually cares about what they ship and takes pride in their work. Maybe DE needs a happy community to profit. Perhaps Bungie is just a hollow shell of itself eaten out from the inside by the toxicity of becoming corporate and greedy living off the success of past games.
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Edited by Eqitx: 2/20/2018 7:45:14 PMIncompetence and quick buck with microtransaction is the only drive on this company. You expect way too much from Bungie, that kind of Bungie for the player died years ago
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2 RepliesThat's like comparing apples and pineapples on pizza. Warframe have gradually built something really incredible over their journey and I really wish they get more recognition than they currently get. Warframe and DE are apples here, everyone likes an apple right? Then there's Bungjob. I'd wager they had nearly unlimited financial resources to make this game happen, some of the most talented environment artistic work and music composition I've ever experienced (the music and scenery are flawless at times) and years of development even after D1 tapered off... And this is what they delivered. This pile of fking bland, boring, loot box pile of bullshit. Bunghole is the pineapples on pizza here. Outright shameful sand frankly they deserve every ounce of backlash and criticism from anyone and everyone. Sure Warframe has it's flaws and can have some brutal grinding, but I'll gladly play a fun grind over a loot box pile of shit.
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3 RepliesI enjoy warframe but i feel like i would need a degree in warframe to get anywhere in the game. I dont want the stupidly simple systems in destiny 2 but god damn warframe.
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2 RepliesThat 100 weapons stats tweaks was a long time coming. Besides we all know they did it because of the damage 2.5 update. I personally can't wait to hunt the new Eidolons especially because they'll drop arcanes now.
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8 RepliesWarframe is incredible at what they do. If Bungie could take one leaf from their book.....Oh how beautiful Destiny would be.
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1 Replygranted that the 100 different weapons being "reworked" is just another name for a nerf after you just put your last 5 hours in a hallway killing mobs to get forma and other shit to make your gun good here come the nerf's as typical of DE. can't wait for DE to pull another rev x dev again.
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The issue is pvp. Warframe is basically a pve game. And what pvp it does have is balanced like an RPG. So any gear changes require very little balance testing. Destiny is trying to be both a pve and pvp game to the same degree. Also it’s pvp is trying balance itself like a competitive shooter. So it only takes a gun that is slighty more powerful than other guns before the whining and the raging starts. But if they go too overboard on balance they break the pve side of the game.
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This is what happens when you don't have to balance weapons to appease the balance loving PvP crowd and the power loving PvE crowd because you refuse to separate balance between PvE and PvP. It's the identity crisis that D2 suffers from that makes it hard for anyone lead in an effective manner which would enable the team to balance things with a clear direction.
