The problem with SBMM is that latency problem . If bungie would just get off their asses and buy dedicated servers . I don't mind fighting against players based on my skill level . If you want to be the best , you have to beat the best . And the only way I'm ever going to be better at the game is playing against players of my own caliber . Edit : Okay so I hear you guys and I went read about what dedicated servers can and can't do ... So basically even in 2016 , we can't have a system that can pair players of equal skill level and provide a stable and comfortable connection to allow fair matches ... Great e.e just -blam!-ing great .. Maybe In 2026 we can have a game than can freaking do that ..

I'm a 1.0kd guy who is probably the representation of what means to be "average" in PVP in Destiny. Unlike most people, perhaps due to my country's infractructure, the amount of players near me or some other factor, with the exception of a few and far between circunstances, I haven't experienced that much difference in terms of Lag since the first time I played, back in September 2014. What I do notice now is that matches are much more "flat" in terms of KD and Scores with rarely one sided matches. Most team based games are won by few points difference and solo game is rarely a slaughter from one player. As this run of the mill guy, the crucible is more enjoyable this way than before. Sure, before I had a few matches were I would get like 5 or 6 kd and go all ham and be like "I'm ubber strong" but the ridiculous majority of the matches were the opposite with many times loosing control matches by over 10k points. Winning a match against lower skilled players might be a good feeling but losing match after match against people who are simply leagues above you isn't in any way the significance of enjoyable experience. What I feel happened was that most top tier players weren't used to having to work so hard to triumph in matches and games to have footage for their YT montages or for their streams. They would for the most part dominate most matches they were put into as the number of players with their level of skill were few and far between thus the probability of being matched with lower skill players that actually were near you and with a better connection was far higher. Now, the game tries to put you up against similar level skilled players which, if you are high skill, are only a small % of the community and thus, most likely, live far away from you. I understand that for most people, specially in larger countries like the USA, connection driven MM is important because Lag is a serious problem in that scenario. However, from a perspective of someone who lives in a country with very good internet and a small geographic spread of players and is average in every sense of the word, I think skill based matchmaking can be beneficial. For me, in terms of balance and effort vs results, I've been liking the Crucible more than before TTK. The issue bungie needs to even more urgently adress is hit detection and the overall network code the game engine uses. Latency (as they call it...) is not present in such ridiculous levels in other PVP shooter games as it is in Destiny. Additionally, there is a severe issue with Hit Detection mechanics in destiny. Lag related or not, I don't know. But you shoot at someone's head and the shot magically misses. Other times, you are pretty sure it will miss and you're just "hell mary" the shots, and they hit. You use your melee and you see it connect and it misses. Other times, it somehow connects. Scorch Melee sometimes triggers the burning effect, other times it doesn't. Same with grenades. There are too many issues with how the game recognizes hits and damage and how the game actually handles connections and latency. And I feel, personally, those are much more defining of bad experiences in the game than the current mm system. **waits for the hate** >_>

Heaven forbid matches are competitive. This is hilarious.

I hate SBMM. It has literally ruined Crucible for me. I love this game; but I can't take this.

I don't get how it's bad Scrubs play scrubs Good players play good players What's the issue?

The ONLY people complaining about skill based matchmaking are skilled players ....at this game... WHY? Because you always have to play similar skill level players and thats not easy. Tough nuts there buddy.... no one cares. Why should weak players be thrown in a match full of aces? Why? to boost your KD ratio? Make it easier to get kills? Poor you. Tough nuts. I play control. I always play in melee range for grenades, melee hits, close range fire, and control point grabs. Solo player so I usually am facing multiple opponents by myself. So my kd is like .7 and I could care less. Am I complaining or whining about dying? nope. Do I think guys that whine about skill matchmaking are babies? You bet. Why have skill based matchmaking? It provides a challenge for the better players in the game. other games dont do it? then GTFO and go play that other game. Bungie has made a unique game so enjoy it. OR... GTFO

Would you rather be killed because of lag, or because the player is better than you? Hmm.

Stopped reading after "The variety of weapons in pvp has hit an all time low" Lmao obvs didn't play much in year one did ya pal? IB used to only be 6 man teams with thorn tlw or hawkmoon. Actually near the end, almost all the games were like that for quite a while. This is the most diverse and balanced (so far) pvp has felt. Hand cannons ruled supreme, pulse rifles and their reign, but now it's a lot of scouts. But I still see people and lobbies full of all kinds of different weapons. Yes there's one sniper basically, and a couple stupid ranged shottys that bungie could've reduced the amount or increased the rarity of the absurd weapons.. Not give them to all the -blam!-ing scrubs on day one hahahahah. It's whatever though, that's not the problem either, it's the amount of special ammo that spawns in a match. It's probably almost twice the amount we need in pvp. Change the ammo spawns again maybe to throw players off for a little while and spawn less ammo and I think we would see a much more fun, level playing field for all players. More gun fights with primaries instead of sitting at angles with special or bum rush with shottys (as fun as those actually are)

I don't understand the hate for SBMM. I do understand that it can cause lag, especially among higher skill players (as they are fewer). However, for people like me who float around 0.7 to 0.8 overall k/d, it makes the crucible much more enjoyable. Getting stomped by 1-2 people who dominated every match was just plain annoying. With SBMM, I'm playing with other players on my level and I tend to do a lot better and it's a lot more fun. When I group with my higher skill friends, I end up getting obliterated in those matches and it makes it aggravating. The past couple of IBs were so much better because of SBMM [b][i]for me[/i][/b], it made the weekly quest of getting the highest score possible instead of completely unreasonable. One of the complaints I keep hearing from higher skill players is that every match is difficult and they don't get to relax and pub stomp noobs all day. It would seem to me that playing people on your level should be preferable. I dabbled in PVP in WoW, but never really enjoyed it because of all the hardcore players. Half the matches ended up with one team getting spawn camped. Early Destiny PVP was much the same, with wildly lopsided scores and people dropping out when they realized they were up against better players. They added mercy rules to make those lopsided fights more bearable. But the SBMM really balanced out player skill and made it fun. Of course that led to players like me not seeing the hardcore problems. I didn't see many camping snipers, almost no shotgun sliders and only the occasional player who was great at utilizing mobility. When people say they felt like they were punished for doing well by being matched with higher skill bracket players, I was baffled. Being good at something and moving up to a higher challenge should be the goal, not a punishment. Anyway, that's my scrubby rant for the day.

Nobody wins in the case of SBMM. I understand how good it sounds in theory, but in the real world, it just doesn't work. EVERYONE loses when matchmaking starts putting too much emphasis on an arbitrary "skill" rank and not enough on region and ping.

SBMM is WAY better. hes just mad because now he has to try and he also loses sometimes. LOSER.

The only people who have a problem with SBMM are as follows.... 1) streamers who now get embarrassed on a regular basis in Trials *cough* triplewreck *cough* 2) sweaties who watch their k/d daily 3) players who want to get carried, but now it's extremely difficult.

Who?

Small Boob Milk Makers.