Gotta say I'm in favor of them fixing the little exploits in the Raid. "But Gnoizic! We're thinking outside of the box!" Guys, there's nothing fun, fair, or original about hiding behind some blocks on a platform with five other dudes slowly taking down a boss that can't even hit you. It's a boss fight, and one of the more original/challenging ones in the game. And when it gets patched, and people cry about this too, remember: there's nothing thrilling or original about being able to push a high-powered boss off a ledge immediately after he spawns. It's an exploit. It may make the game simpler, but it also takes the thrill, the fear, and the challenge out of it as well. My brother gets joy out of playing Madden on easy and kicking the shit out of the AI, or turning cheats on in other games to become an absolute god in them. I've never understood it. I want my games to challenge me, not for me to mindlessly beat them. And if they change teleporting in the VoG finale, more power to Bungie for bringing an "Oh @#$%" element back to the game. As a guy who didn't know how that mechanic worked in my first runs at the VoG, I found it rewarding figuring out how to perform all roles at any time in the Raid.

Plenty of reasons to question Bungie's actions; I have three characters, 28, 29, and 30. All three nightfalls, three weekly heroic strikes, three daily strikes, and one hard mode raid every Tuesday. I finish the remaining two normal raids on Wednesday. Then each day all that remains to be done is the daily heroic (10 minutes each, max), and 1 public event per character. That's it. There is nothing else to do. Questionable design or simply lack of content? Only being able to level from 29 to 30 via randomly dropped gear = poor design Balance changes meant for PvP also having negative affect on PvE = VERY bad decision Story line that's about as easy to follow as a drunk clown high on meth running from the cops in a mirror maze. Game full of superb voice actors only to have the worst selection for primary roll. The cast is like the ultimate sci-fi fan roster with great voices like Dominic Keating, Claudia Black, Erick Avari, Gina Torres, and Nathon Fillion... but Bungie has them playing minor roles as obscure NPCs while the dead-ass inflection of Peter Dinklage is the primary voice actor?! AAAAAAAAAAHhhHHHHh!! that made me so upset.

I logged on a minute ago, after 1 week of not caring to log on because there is nothing to do, and i like the recoil on scoute rifles its good but maybe to much recoil reduction. And omg wtf did they do to the ARs. 3% my ass. They are useless now. Wtf is bungie doing? Making a messedup game even worse! At this point myself and others must be asking ourselves what reasons is there log into a broken and more broken game? Ever.

Agreed, however my team and I ran the raid in about 45 min even with having to stay down with the templar. All in all they are ruining there game.

I agree with most of your ideas, but to say let us do the Templar outside the map strategy then say we can't use the warlock for the boss. Is a contradiction to your first statement. Thus adding the vex dumb because people are using a time saving strategy.

ur stupid if he falls off the edge coz we work together to push it should be alright..you just said for people to think out side the box and they shouldn't be punished for it..ok so we thought of a way to kill him fast there nothing wrong with considering its take for ever just to push him off..stop trying to change people then tell them not to do change what there doing but think outside the box but get punished for..ur a idiot.

This was a very strange patch. The Suros felt strong before, now it feels week. While the Vision of Confluence feels crazy strong all of a sudden, way stronger than Suros. It is really starting to feel like Exotic primaries are not that strong. I only have around 5, and two of those are Bad Juju and Thorn. But it feels like Exotics are getting weaker, and at the same time, they never fixed the Bad Juju or Thorn. Can Bungie at least give us the promised fix to those exotics? I don't understand what they are doing, unless they would like a majority of the community to be on PvP rather than PvE.

You make some good points man but taking everyone's VeX away is no diffrent than nerfing it to all players pve pvp alike. Not to mention Their are plently of players who did beat the raid LEGIT and would be punished for someone else's cheese. The gun shouldnt of existed in the first place and nether should crucible imo

The vex should of stayed the same honestly. I mean look at the description. "Binds time and space..." It has to be op lol. It's inevitable.

Um, I beat the vault of glass legit on level 30, four times before I received a vex. And just the thought of them taking it away after all that hard work would just be f u c k e d up. Every buddy just needs to shut the f u c k and stop complaining. The Nerf's they made was uncalled for and that's all I gotta say about that.

You're talking about a crap load of code writing/changing. It's easier for Bugie to just screw over their customers than work on a logical solution. What you are suggesting takes a lot of work and time and the last thing Bugie/Activision is going to do is pay developers and programmers more $$ than they absolutely have to just to keep us worthless clients happy. The only people Bungie gives a crap about is their marketing dept. because they did an awesome job pitching this total rat turd of a game.

Remember in their video. They said. All this space will someday be playable. It was actually just the Skybox. They lied. lol

[quote][b]"We want to instil a sense of wonder and exploration..." -Bungie[/b] http://www.thesixthaxis.com/2014/07/16/interview-bungies-david-dague-talks-destiny-exploration-and-balance/ ...Unless its on the sniper platforms in VoG. These two nerfs show a lack of understanding of the issue and laziness in trying to fix it. 1. The templar fight - Bungie your reaction is akin to a child breaking/nosharing a toy that someone uses better than themselves. Instead of being pissed players used your terrain in a way you didn't anticipate, you should be happy players are exploring your game. Instead you basically said don't explore or problem solve in your "exploration" game or "puzzle" raid. Rather than punish players for thinking outside the box, YOU should think outside the box yourselves. Why not when the Templar tries to teleport it teleports a praetorian on to the sniper platform with the most players, or every time an oracle spawns a player is teleported somewhere on the map, or the templar itself teleports to a position it can't be hit forcing players downetc etc etc? Instead you were lazy and got vindictive by putting barriers and kill volumes in. So rather than being angry at ingenious players why not turn your ingenuity on them? Which at the same time encourages exploration and community relations. 2. Vex nerf - This was just backwards and lazy. The true issue is not the Vex but the raid save sharing and atheon cheese walking off the map. So rather than fix the actual issue, you broke the reward. What should have been done was a public announcement saying "enjoy your vexes while they are still in your time, atheon is not pleased" then fixed the Raid. Upon fixing it you should have said "due to causal effects in the time continuum Atheon is back and returned his weapons to him and his minions.". Then removed all players vexes, basically challenging if you "beat" him before you can beat him again. Instead you were lazy and said Vexes are more abundant than they should let's just nerf them so they aren't worthwhile. [b][u]Preferential Vex solution thanks to Shook3n (PvE only) [/u][/b]: https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/73259948/0/0 In closing Bungie has shown lack of vision or caring in their design philosophy, lack of public relations or understanding, and just laziness/spitefulness in response to issues and player ingenuity. Edit 1: its been brought to my attention that part of the issue may be making alt characters and running the raid multiple times in one week thus also increasing the rate of vex drops. I've also been told that the really hardcore make characters, level them up, transfer equipment, run the raid, delete the character, and repeat. This leads to as many attempts as your stomach can handle in a week. [b]I withdraw and hold judgement on this, just sharing as it was shared with me[/b] Edit 2: so as not to say that the atheon issue wasn't players being creative, bungie could have atheon fall through a "time distortion" and warp to his area again with slightly more health or add bumpers to the edges or any number of little tweaks etc. [b][u]a good suggestion was if he falls off the map he takes his loot for the week with him (possible accidental loss of loot is only concern) courtesy of Pulsix [/u][/b] Edit 3: we arent the only ones noticing bungie. Forbes has also noticed. https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/73188940/0/0. (Credit to DarkBushido21) Please post suggestions for templar or atheon to get bungie some feedback.[/quote] Its not difficult to beat the Templar legit, sure the platform is an easier cheaper way of doing it its still doable. I don't see the problem. And with the vex, not to many people have it. Those people are in the minority. I can see why they'd be upset, but the majority either are glad to see it nerfed because of crucible, or don't care one way or another. And honestly...would you have really wanted bungie to take the vex away. Thatd be 10x more upsetting than a Nerf.

#1 - Game was not working as intended, players exploited environment to gain free gear, Bungie fixes this and players get mad cause no more free stuff. #2 - Vex Mythoclast was overpowered and made encounters retarded easy (both in PvE and PvP); and A LOT of players obtained it via exploited means. Bungie fixes this, cause players exploited their game, so now a lot more people than you realize run around with it. Deal with it and get used to it. // Working as intended <- Get used to hearing that as well, welcome to the world of MMO's

Great post, please read this one and comment. The more people that comment and like these posts the better chance we have at a response from bungie. http://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/72890980/0/0