The below is car15's post. Still nobody wants to sue them?
I have quoted this post in full from a Reddit post for the sake of posterity in case it gets taken down.
There's lots of interesting information and speculation here. The opinions expressed within are not my own; they are the opinions of Acer1096xxx, the original poster. I do not agree with everything he says, but I think the information he provides is important enough that it should be preserved and disseminated as widely as possible.
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This thread is a collection of posts and my thoughts that show how Destiny's development changed DRASTICALLY within its last year.
It is the reason why the story is lacking, the missions are repititive, and why there are grimoire cards. A lot of shady stuff went down during the end of 2013 and beginning of 2014.
Anyway, let's start off with what the Story was supposed to be like:
STORY: This reddit post from a deleted thread Here explains how Destiny's story was originally during E3 2013. Bungie.net user Diver2441 sums up all of this here:
(Key parts are BOLDED for the lazy)
So recently a Reddit thread came to light detailing what Destiny's narrative looked like in 2013, and it's very different from the ailing excuse for a story we're presented with today: the Traveler bringing the darkness, Crow, different progression through planets and even considerable cut areas. So it becomes apparent that between mid to late 2013 and launch, Bungie gutted the story. Now this is where it gets good, something else happened back in late 2013 before the story was gutted; Joe Staten, Bungie's former lead writer left. Some may think it coincidence, but I think not.
Now the Reddit thread (which has mysteriously disappeared) outlined a story sprawling across a considerably larger solar system, and including a number of characters and factions who never so much as appear in the full game. The prime example of this is Crow, the character/faction who was set out to expose the Traveler and Speaker for in fact bringing the darkness along with the Traveler, and not the Golden Age. A specific reference to Crow can be found in the above video at 1:01, where a mission would have you assist Crow in looting the Archive on venus for details on the Vex Gatelord (which is in fact a mission we end up doing in the main game, but Crow is clearly not a part of it). The Gatelord was said to contain a way to access a pre-Collapse AI construct who had the ability to expose the Traveler, and we can see this in the form of the inaccessible Bunker RAS2.
Even in the PvP, we see a reference to "faction wars" at 1:20 in the video, so it appears that justification and explanation for the different factions in the tower was cut as well.
Destiny's current half assed story starts to make a little more sense when we apply the context that the entire narrative was gutted less than a year before launch, and remade without Bungie's lead writer. Why Joe left, and why Bungie felt the need to completely gut the story of the game and cut huge areas is beyond me, but it's abundantly obvious that there's a lot more going on than meets the eye.
WHAT THE STORY WAS RE-WRITTEN INTO: Grimoire Cards. Check Edit2 for Source, but basically back in February 2014, a man was hired to write all the Grimoire Cards. This was clearly the solution to trying to incorporate as much story as possible with what little story was actually in the game. This also is most likely the reason why there is no Grimoire UI in-game, because it was far too close to release to actually incorporate such a thing.
UNUSED LOCATIONS AND FEATURES:
Continuing from Diver2441's post, he mentions:
If we look at an article from 2013 and the reveal ViDoc, it becomes very obvious that the game we have today is vastly different from what it was as little as around a year ago. For starters there are references to areas such as Old Chicago, the ghost fleet in the rings of Saturn, Charlemagne's Vault, and others that very clearly never made it into the full game, despite being fully made and playable around a year ago. Additionally, at 3:24 in the video above, we see an in game location in The Reef, and from 3:43 - 3:51 we see a pine forested area in game that never saw the light of day as well. Even in our own back yard of Old Russia in the retail games, we have locked off areas such as King's Watch, the Jovian Complex, and the Seraphim Vault, none of which are even mentioned in the retail game today.
CUT CONTENT BEING RESOLD AS DLC (POSSIBLY):
This video shows that the majority of the first two expansions of DLC is potentially already on the disc! Even in the beta, areas such as the King's Watch and Seripham Vault were accessible through glitches and yet are not available in the full game (Actually, these places aren't even mentioned in the DLC either!) More proof about these areas can be shown through the data dumps at http://db.destinytracker.com
I want to note here that this doesn't mean the content is actually finished, but the idea that it could be is annoying and makes sense given the amount of content that had already been cut.
ANOTHER COINCIDENCE: Along with Bungie's Lead Writer departing for unknown reasons, we can't forget about Marty O'Donnell being fired too. We're all aware that the situation had to do with salary, but when Marty left, there was a clear bitterness between him and Bungie. Bungie had changed, and the lead writer had recognized it too. Was it Activision? Probably. But we're not being told the full story and I don't expect us to find out unfortunately.
WHAT BUNGIE MUST DO: There are a variety of options Bungie can do to fix these problems.
1. GIVE US THE HELD-BACK CONTENT FOR FREE: Unfortunately, this isn't very likely given Activision's greed and contracts already settled in to sell this content later. Some could also argue that it's a good thing this content is being held-back so that the game will stay alive for much longer, although I personally disagree given the lack of content available at launch.
2. GIVE US JUST THE STORY MISSIONS FOR FREE: This is a bit more reasonable and would solve the overall complaint with Destiny. We know there is a story being held back greatly, and they we should not let them sell this to us as DLC.
3. GIVE US A SCHEDULE AND COMMUNICATE BETTER: This is my final plea to Bungie. The game is already out; we don't need to be left in the dark anymore. They need to tell us when content is being released and what we can expect so that we can voice our opinions better and prevent them from making more mistakes.
THOUGHTS? I know this thread is extremely long in details, but I think it needs to be seen. The Destiny today is not the Destiny we were promised or the one Bungie had even imagined. Locations, ship customization, a real story, and other deleted content were all things planned/created before last year and are all gone now. Something must be done.
(I will continue to edit this post as more info comes along).
EDIT1: Source to Diver2441's post: http://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/70651356/0/0
EDIT2: More details about the Grimoire cards and the fact that all of this "cutting out content" was very recent.
Posted by Reddit user /u/mrdabu:
...Moreover, basic game elements were removed - in the developer commentary for the gameplay reveal the bungie developer (Mike Zak, environment artist) says that the hunter could have gained his weapons and armor through trade with other players or a kind of gambling (8:12). this is not implemented in the release version. The video was released on july 8, 2013 on youtube. So the decision to cut these features out was made in the last year of a more than 5 year development period which is very uncommon.
Perhaps the story is so lame and such a mystery because of all the changes during the last year.
Then he talks about the grimoire cards which contain the story. in the forum of destiny.bungie.org a guy called general battuta says that the grimoire story was „mostly written and edited in one crazy spiny very close to launch“. (sept 14, 2014) On feb 13, 2014, he posted a thread in which he shared his excitement of being hired as a writer for bungie in seattle. this was 7 months before release.
EDIT3: Reddit user /u/PopeOwned gives a little bit more info about Bungie's Lead Writer, Joe Staten, leaving: http://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/2hk88o/spoiler_redditor_provides_insight_as_to_why/ckthwqk
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That's the end of the Reddit post.
EDIT from car15: This is the expansion content.
THE DARK BELOW
Old Russia: The Veil Lifted (Level 18 Story)
Old Russia: The Seeding (Level 18 Story)
Ocean of Storms: The Wakening (Level 20 Story)
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Old Russia: The Jovian Complex (Level 10 Strike)
Meridian Bay: The Hypogeum (Level 20 Strike)
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Ocean of Storms: Crota's End (Level 28 Raid)
HOUSE OF WOLVES
Old Russia: Gone to Ground (Level 20 Story)
Ishtar Sink: Wolves' Harvest (Level 20 Story)
Ishtar Sink: The Citadel (Level 22 Story)
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Ocean of Storms: Expansion 2 Moon Strike (Level 14 Strike)
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The Reef: Reef Raid (Level 28 Raid)
English
#Destiny
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https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/222873627 WOW. Read my mind. This post is 2 years old, here's something new, I will link your post into mine if that's alright with you.
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How about how they made DRASTIC changes to the game with the new "update". Totally changing the ENTIRE game from what WE ORIGINALLY BOUGHT! If they wanted to come out with expansions that's fine, but how can they legally change the ALREADY existing game WE ALREADY BOUGHT...I paid over 80 dollars for the game and expansion packs. It's not even the same game I ORIGINALLY PAID for, it's TOTALLY different! If they wanted to alter how players level up this should have been Destiny2...to get BACK what they STOLE you have to buy a NEW game for $50! There are no longer options to alter the original gameplay difficulty settings...the experience gained in the ORIGINAL content is all nullified...everyone has essentially been reduced in exp/rank by 10 points AT LEAST. This is not an expansion pack as advertised but a WHOLE NEW GAME. The gameplay is different, the character voices are different, the rewards system is different...in short...again...it's NOT the same game, this "update" was FORCED on players, we were forced to accept this and we not only had NO CHOICE but we weren't told of these changes. This is pure theft, if this were a disc game it would not have been possible for bungie to do this, we were TAKEN ADVANTAGE of in the worst way. This game has LONG had issues of lying to customers about content, the dark below "expansion" is a perfect example...and because they knew NO ONE would buy another shit game with pathetic gameplay they didn't release Destiny 2 instead they FORCED us all to accept a REDUCED game, a game we already paid for and have played for a VERY long time...myself over a year...so that we would buy a "new" version to get BACK WHAT THEY STOLE...again...because there was NO way anyone would EVER pay for another of their pathetic games. This is purely illegal. How do we sue them? I don't want a petition, I don't want my game back...I want bungie OUT OF BUSINESS FOREVER!
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1 AntwortenI enjoy this game. I vote with my wallet. This game is awesome and it's worth all the money I payed. You and your petition should go back to CoD. That game is a real ripoff.
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4 AntwortenAs everyone has stated its not fair what has appeared to have happened, but sadly there's nothing we can do about it in a legal way. Taking a company as big as Activision to court would be suicide and a waste of your own money. If people are genuinely that bothered about getting ripped off £50 then there are many ways to hurt them. I have hated Activision since they bought out every micro transaction going in COD. They do it for a reason and it's because most people are dumb enough to keep going back year after year buying the DLC and Camo packs and fueling Activisons greed more. I myself am giving Destiny a chance until the 1st DLC arrives, If I dont see some improved story line and new gameplay then I'm gone. When it comes down to it we the customer have the power. The customer is always right. Next Activison game to come out dont pre order it. I have always pre ordered COD and this year will be the 1st time I say NO. And I wont buy any game from Activison until it's released and I've seen some real game play and reviews. Start a boycott and hurt them where it matters, in their wallets for a change.
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Blah blah blah
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Paying for half ass content in video games here and there may not seem like it will effect the industry now but it will,story modes are becoming short with less creativity and games are starting to have so many micro transactions that its less about skill but more about your wallet size,I know PC games don't get this problem and that's because you don't have massive games like wow,log,warframe or other giant size world games coming out every year,if we the gamers don't utilize our rights as games and consumers we will never see a true evolution of video games but the crap they hype us all and bullshit they feed up
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4 AntwortenThe reecent aliens game produced a similar lawsuit over what the final game looked like as opposed to the demo footage, I belive that lawsuit was found in favor of the plaintiff. I think this may actually hold water overall. I actually like destiny a lot, but he has a point, game developers that show demo footage with no intention of a final release implementation are despicable, whether its common practice or not, it should not be legal. A good question is, is the gameplay footage from E3 demo considered an advertisement, b/c if it isn't then how can it be false advertising. Even though I liek the current state of the game, if you bought the game expecting those features shown in the demos then you should return the game, if you can't return the game or your concerns won't be addressed, sometimes its the only option. His playing 72 hours of the game has nothing to do with his concerns, I've played a hell of a lot more than him and I'm disappointed that those features weren't implememnted as well, this game is really grindy but has a great core gameplay that I enjoy, I can't say I'm unhappy with the finished product, I just wish there was more. Side Note: the whole friends dropping in from ships would have been so damn cool. I care less about the lootsplosions. The turn back or die maps really annoy me, even though I like the backgrounds a lot.
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All I can really say to bungie and activison is I'm disappointed. You compromise the quality of your game, why? A story that would have engulfed players changed into what it is now? Yes we all love defending ghost for a mission seven thousand times in a row. I am just upset that what once was a great story now has no lore and no explanation; furthermore without fulfilment nor replayability as well as a terrible lack of enjoyment. It's BORING. And that's your fault bungie - don't try to shift the blame to Activision (although they surely are to blame for many other shitty decisions) because you're BUNGIE not some indie cheap company worth nothing.
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All game companies are out to fk us all over for money now. All they are is greedy pigs. I rent games never buy them anymore and if dlc is not free then let them keep it.
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BUMPING THIS POST BECAUSE SCREW EVERYONE SAYING THIS IS A HOAX. READ WHAT THE TESTER SAYS ABOUT CROW, THEN WATCH THE DESTINY VIDOC AND PAUSE WHEN HE'S LOOKING AT HIS IPHONE. IT SAYS A HELP WITH A MISSION REGARDING CROW AND VENUS. DON'T BE FOOLED BY ACTIVI$$$ION, YOU ARE PLAYING A GUTTED INCOMPLETE GAME SO YOU CAN PAY FOR A STORY LATER WITH "DLC"
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thank you for the information, based on the sheer lack of content it appears is in the DLC, sounds like they did cut out a massive amount.
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6 AntwortenIf I was a moderator, the majority of these types of threads would be deleted as fast as they're put up. Enough is enough.
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2 Antwortenjust ban these noobs who post this dumb shit.
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Signed and bump
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A tiny paragraph on change.org won't change shit. Lol
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3 AntwortenSo much effort for so little a need. Poor OP.
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1 AntwortenNo one will win a lawsuit in regards to destiny lol. Keep trying kid.
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Bearbeitet von Darth Guinness: 12/19/2014 6:28:48 AMIt's called a development cycle. Shit happens, things change, get over it.
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Bearbeitet von Finerva: 12/19/2014 7:06:25 AMIs it curmudgeon-y of me to feel like the company that didn't produce a game as expected the first time would not find it more [i]motivating[/i] to do so under penalty of law? I mean what exactly is the logic? Obviously Destiny was like the classic Disney Princess Wedding for many a doe eyed gamer and Bungie showed up on your big day and fcked a bridesmaid right? Bungie had an entire nerd cheer team for years, but they didn't perform to your expectations in the end, so now let's try [url]legal force[/url]? I don't see how that solves anything, the Destiny that could have been seemed inspired, you can't sue someone into inspiration. Psychology research is pretty clear that negative reinforcement is never as effective as positive reinforcement. This isn't the way it works. If you don't like the product, you stop buying it (or playing it in this case). That opens up the market for someone else to innovate and thus an industry can evolve. I'm perfectly content with what Destiny is and is not. I am a huge believer in evolution and I see even failure as a necessary form of growth. I am anxious to know what developers are taking notes, already planning the game that solves all of Destiny's shortcomings. Destiny revealed to the console industry that their customers are hungry for more than just the same CoD/BF game every single year. Maybe Destiny will be to <Destiny Successor> what EverQuest was to World of Warcraft. When WoW came out people called it "EQ Lite" it was like a less life destroying EQ because the quests were shorter, supposedly making the game easier to pickup and put down (ironic no?). Anyway, I digress. TLDR; Should we be setting a precedent involving "sue-ing" Game Developers into making the game we want. Is it not way better and less insane to simply allow the free market to work and build the game that so many are already committed to buying/playing (that is obviously not Destiny time and time again but yet they never stop).
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10 AntwortenAh pasty-white nerd rage screaming at a wall about nonsense he knows nothing about. Sue. Such an adorable pudgy white child... Here, have a hot pocket.
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2 AntwortenYou promised bold for those too lazy to read but you did not deliver. Now I am going to sue you.
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SUE THEM!!!
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Bearbeitet von Melmack: 12/19/2014 6:11:01 AMI absolutely agree that something 'Dark' happened in 2013, probably because of big business cooperate decisions from Activision. It's a sad and dark day for us as gamers. Even sadder, many avid gamers I know don't really care to do anything about it. I'm 38 years old and I am sad that my 3 children won't grow up playing fun, exciting, and creative games like I did when growing up because companies like Activision are making our industry all about money and less about progress and innovation. This is so sad, coming from a fairly conservative person that is slowly turning more Anti corporation every day because of things like this; It makes me sick! I refuse to sign the new EULA for Destiny and I am not going to play again until they fix this garbage. Bungie seems to have sold their soul here. For a gamer that came back to gaming years ago because of Halo, I am deeply saddened. My only hope is that someone at Bungie takes a stand, comes out and tells us the truth about this. If we as gamers do not take a stand on this, then we will never see another game like the game this could have been. I feel it is too late for Destiny but the next game will have a chance if we stop capitulating and stand up against this outright false advertisement and in my opinion, theft. They owe us what we where promised. Lets demand it! Stop playing this game! Stop buying content you already payed for! lets band together and stop pre-ordering future content. Stop buying games on release day. Make them give us great games or put them out of business. That is our recourse. If the courts wont do it, that is our path. Let's hit them where it counts.
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9 AntwortenI get it the game we got isn't the one they were selling years ago... THIS HAPPENS ALL THE TIME! Shit gets cut get over it! Need I remind you of Peter Molyneux and his snake oil called FABLE!!!!!
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I think that, beyond issues with Destiny in particular, there should be grounds for a suit due to Destiny (a Cross Platform Game) affecting one's connection with Xbox Live ( a paid subscription service through Microsoft). MY issue is that since the DAY I downloaded Destiny to my xbox harddrive, ALL my other MMO FPS games (and strangely Netflix, which never had issues for me before Sept. 8, 2014) have been having issues. Many of them have slower than normal ping and now also disconnect me from Xbox Live entirely ever since I put Destiny on my hard drive. I rarely had ANY connection issues before buying and downloading Destiny and now my ENTIRE XBOX EXPERIENCE is affected. If Bungie won't do anything, we should take our issues to Microsoft for their third-party developer affecting the core Xbox Live gaming/app community as a whole!!