Things to note:
- These comparisons are assuming that the respective stat associated with each class ability is at Tier 10
- This doesn't include Exotic effects, as Class abilities shouldn't be tuned based on available exotics.
- This is taking into account the incoming changes for Barricade and dodge
Warlock Rifts:
Cooldown: 41 Seconds
Advantages:
- Either constant healing at a steady rate or 20% bonus damage for 15 Seconds
- Ability is tied to Recovery allowing for health to be fully recharged at a quicker rate
Disadvantages:
- 2 Second cast animation leaving you vulnerable to dmg without been able to move or fight back
- Can be shot while in the rift
Benefits from Subclass:
Solar:
- Recharges faster when scorching enemies (Via Ember of Singeing)
Void:
- Child of the Old Gods: Grants Void soul: Upon shooting a target, the soul flies towards said target, Slowing them, Damaging them, Grants grenade and melee energy with Healing Rift, Grants Health with Empowering Rift, Defeating a target connected to the soul grants Class ability energy, 25 Second window to shoot an enemy, Lasts 10 seconds upon activation (not including travel time)
Arc:
- Arc soul: Small turret that cannot be destroyed, Lasts 14 seconds starting once you leave your rift. Can shoot even faster and more aggressively upon becoming Amplified
- Small energy refund upon picking up an Ionic Trace (Can be made by killing Jolted or Blinded enemies or with Arc Abilities via Electrostatic Mind
- Recharges Faster Via Sprinting (Via Spark of Focus)
Stasis:
- Freezes nearby enemies during cast animation (Via Frost pulse)
Warlock Phoenix Dive: (Solar Subclass Only)
Cooldown: 41 Seconds
Advantages:
- Quick Burst of Healing
- Quick directional movement while airborne
- Grants 1 Second of Restoration while Heat Rises is active (2 Seconds via Ember of Solace)
- Burst of small Scorch dmg around landing location while Heat Rises is active
Disadvantages:
- Cannot shoot during activation, with a 1 second delay when landed
- Can only be activated in the air
Titan Barricade:
Cooldown:
- Rally: 19 Seconds
- Towering: 24 Seconds
- Bastion: 49 Seconds (Void only)
Advantages:
- Deployable cover that can be placed anywhere while on the ground blocking all incoming dmg
- Rally Barricade offers increased reload speed, stability and range while behind it
- Tied to Resilience offering a passive 40% dmg reduction
- Slows enemies that touch the barricade and reduces their HP to very low in a second
Disadvantages:
- 2 Second cast animation
- Splash dmg can still do dmg when shot to the side or above/below the barricade (if there are gaps)
Benefits from Subclass:
Solar:
- Recharges faster when scorching enemies (Via Ember of Singeing)
Void:
- Bastion: Grants yourself and nearby allies a full Over shield that can be recharged and timer reset by standing behind it
Arc:
- Can be used as a frontal shield blocking dmg while sprinting (Via Juggernaut)
- Recharges faster by sprinting (Via Spark of Focus)
Stasis:
- Defeating Slowed or Frozen enemies grants a small amount of Class Ability Energy (Via Whisper of Refraction)
Titan Thruster: (Arc subclass only)
Cooldown: 18 Seconds
Advantages:
- Quick burst of movement to any direction (Roughly same distance as Vanishing Step)
- Same benefits from Arc Section above
- First person view that keeps the reticle on the screen for immediate action upon finishing animation
Disadvantages:
- Cannot shoot during the animation, leaving yourself vulnerable to dmg
- Can only be used on the ground
Hunter Dodge:
Cooldown:
- Marksman: 19 Seconds
- Gamblers: 26 Seconds
- Acrobat: 41 Seconds (Solar Only)
Advantages:
- Quick small side step that reloads currently equipped weapon. (Marksman)
- Quick small dive roll that refunds melee energy if near an enemy (Gamblers)
- Small Flip that gives yourself and nearby allies Radiant (Acrobat)
- Some freedom of movement control during the dodge animation (Marksman + Gamblers)
Disadvantages:
- Cannot shoot during animation
- Can only be used on the ground
- Is tied to Mobility (By far the most useless Stat, and only reason for investment is shorter Hunter dodge cooldown)
Benefits from Subclass:
Solar:
- Recharges faster when scorching enemies (Via Ember of Singeing)
Void:
- Vanishing Step: Grants Invisibility, Has a further travelling Side step (Regardless of equipped dodge)
Arc:
- Flow State: While Amplified: Class Ability recharges faster, gain dmg resistance while dodging
- Recharges faster by sprinting (Via Spark of Focus)
Stasis:
- Applies a short Slow effect on nearby enemies
Personal Thoughts:
In terms of usefulness I would rank them:
1st: Titan Barricade
2nd: Warlock Rift
3rd: Hunter Dodge
The Titan Barricade can be used both offensively and Defensively essentially stopping all incoming threats and forcing enemies to play around your barricade (or do a do or die offensive attack). It also allows for immediate control of a situation giving yourself and allies time to breath. It has next to no downsides and the unnecessary passive ability to slow and dmg enemies that touch it (You don't see that with the base rift or dodge abilities)
Titan Thruster is basically just Hunter dodge but better at actually dodging.
Warlock Rift is pretty much only used defensively, while it can grant offensive abilities like the Arc and Void Souls it has a fair share of vulnerabilities which mainly come from no natural cover upon activation and usage unless placed behind cover. I believe this to be the most balanced of all the Class abilities.
Warlocks Phoenix Dive is the most gimmicky of all the class abilities but can be played into for an aggressive and explosive combo with scorch if you so desire.
The Hunter Dodge easily the most controversial of the class abilities. (Even as a Hunter main I will try to be as unbiased as I can here) Usually when people complain about Hunter nerfs it always comes back to the dodge and how versatile it is, The problem I have with this is the dodge has equally as many faults, unless the Hunter is next to cover or the enemy just can't aim, it isn't hard to kill a Hunter mid dodge. Also for all the people that complain about Invis (Cause I know this will be brought up): Invis isn't even fully Invis, you can still see someone quite clearly during invis, and they still flash on the radar, so while it can catch people by surprise still I don't think it is anywhere near as bad as people make it out to be. The worst part of all this is every time the dodge gets nerfed, because of how heavily the Hunters synergy and exotics play around the dodge, it indirectly nerfs everything at the same time.
If I missed anything important feel free to add it in the comments.
(Lets see this angry community tear me apart for this)
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19 AntwortenYour verbiage and descriptors gave away your bias… And ignoring exotic interaction also betrays your intentions because the class abilities don’t exist in a vacuum of cooldowns and intrinsic effects. Dodge has been the most useful class ability in PvP by a large margin for the life of D2 and anyone arguing otherwise just isn’t being honest with themselves about Destiny 2 PvP and it’s sandbox. My personal opinion is that it’s utility to negate cooldowns between exotics and aspects is the number one reason Hunters dominate in crucible class usage stats.
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1 AntwortenFrom a pve stance, and from a Titan main bias: Baricades feel slower to cast than rifts or dodges, which is an instant movement (across all 5 class dodges). Hunter dodges have insane utility Barricades get in the way of the user without Citan's Ramparts equipped. With the obvious exception of Sentinel, Titan barricades do not interact with subclasses in any way without adding specific exotic armors to make them do so. Every Warlock and Hunter subclass has some subclass interaction with their class ability at base. And Thruster doesnt actually DO anything but move you. Its forte is its short cooldown, more than the dodge itself; especially with HoIL equipped. There isnt even a dedicated exotic armor to make barricades or Thruster interact with the Striker subclass the way Sunbreaker and and Behemoth have. Titans are the only class to lack an exotic armor that allows them to insta-reload all 3 weapons at once by using their dodge. 3 sped up reloads while behind a Rally Barricade is not the same thing at all. In Lightfall, Bombadiers exotic hunter legs will (in theory) allow Hunters to counter any champion type just by dodging while near them. This is a whole additional method of stunning Champs that Titans and Warlocks mostly lack (barring Strand and new exotics we dont yet know about, and with the exception of stasis Warlock's rifts being able to inflict Slow). Towering Barricade is strong protection from one direction, but it and Thruster lack any secondary function outside of Sentinel and without exotics. Compare this Hunter dodges which are a dodge, but also provide second effects before any other interactions; ie instant reload or melee refresh. (Also Phoenix Dive which is a move, and a heal.) I will say though that Hunters have the disadvantage of sorts that since dodges are tied to Mobility, all 3 stats in the top bracket are valuable; there is no drop stat to feed the other two. This can make stat allocation more tricky, since you cannot just max all 3. Titans and Warlocks can simply drop Mobility most of the time for most builds to feed Resil and Rec with little issue.
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Titans are over powered. They are what you play when you want to play the game on easy.
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13 AntwortenDodge gives you immediate benefit and has no startup animation. Also, PLENTY of exotics help you with said abilities. With exotics, your dodge can: Heal you Make you invisible Reload your weapons instantly Remove my radar Move you to cover almost instantly You can make a build where you can dodge every 3-5 seconds. This is most certainly a cry baby post.
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13 AntwortenHunter dodge is overrated. Easily the worst class ability. In gamblers, your hitbox lags behind alot of times, allowing you to be killed by bullets that shouldnt have hit you. Marksman is just useless period. Exotics dont even make it that much better. Wormhusk feels bugged with the regen it gives. If Bungie is gonna make the cooldown that long, gamblers dodge should be akin to evasion from Halo Reach. Marskman dodge should also cover more ground more rapidly. As it stands though, the dodges are overrated and inferior to the utility of the other class abilities and even dodges (icarus dash and thruster are superior in almost every way).
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2 AntwortenWarlock rift and Phoenix dive should have gotten a buff instead of nerfing hunters and titans. IMO the reliable uptime on hunter dodge is kind of the only thing making it all that great. Without the low cooldown, it falls way below barricades and even rifts IMO in terms of usefulness.
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Well written joke. Kudos.
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2 AntwortenBearbeitet von InsipidPanda: 1/20/2023 9:55:24 PMAs a hunter main seeing all the crybabies try and invent hunter builds, that sound good on paper and play the classic what aboutism, which clearly shows they haven't touched the class in years. I think of responses in kind for the other classes and end up just reminding myself how OP and fun titans and warlocks are compared to hunters. That rather than read anymore of the salty replies, I'm just going to go play on them instead.
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2 AntwortenResilience gives pve only damage resist, this important to note and not everyone knows this
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2 AntwortenLmao - skewed opinion based post if I’ve ever seen one. Hunters have been the strongest class for some time yet you think you need more? Not including the numerous exotics hunters have that change the game when using dodge.
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3 AntwortenI think Hunters have more practical benefits with dodge, as it can be used to open gaps between shotgunners and fusioners, absorb damage, and gives a reload/full melee charge. When you're running throwing knives or invis, the melee charge is an insane benefit.
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Titan Thruster: (Arc subclass only) Disadvantages: - Cannot shoot during the animation, leaving yourself vulnerable to dmg - Can only be used on the ground [b]- Can't be used on hill/slope[/b] Advantages: - Quick small side step that reloads currently equipped weapon. (Marksman) - Quick small dive roll that refunds melee energy if near an enemy (Gamblers) - Small Flip that gives yourself and nearby allies Radiant (Acrobat) - Some freedom of movement control during the dodge animation (Marksman + Gamblers) [b]breaks aim assist[/b] [quote] (Titan barricade) It has next to no downsides[/quote] Can literally break it by shooting it [quote]Titan Thruster is basically just Hunter dodge but better at actually dodging.[/quote] Hahahaha
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"Titan Thruster is basically just Hunter dodge but better at actually dodging" Did you seriously say this?
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Reload on dodge or melee refund is very strong. We had that for free basically with such low cool downs on top of being able to activate mods tied to class ability much more frequently than other classes. Dodging still moves around your head making headshots more difficult. Dodge is good.
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Only thing I don't agree with 1: stop downplaying dodge, it's strong simple as that. 2: even if invisibility isn't true invisibility and can be seen it's still a form of camouflage/visual obscurity which means that depending on the background you will either miss the hunter completely or it will take you .5-1 second longer to acknowledge that the hunter is there and during that time the hunter has already taken Half your HP = hunter wins 90% off the time. (Same logic that applies to overshields)
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Rock: Paper is op! Paper: scissors are op! Scissors: rock is op!
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4 Antwortenthis is so dumb lol. dodge is busted and needed a nerf
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11 AntwortenThe worst thing - a lot of hunter armor is tied to the dodge. When they nerf dodge, they basically nerf every single one of them and every build that relies on them. This is huge blow for hunter viability in endgame pve.
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So says the hunter
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Bearbeitet von $hirtless Captain Kirk: 1/20/2023 10:09:10 PMFunny af reading these salty hunter posts after they all kept asking for class ability nerfs. Most bot thing I've ever seen🤣 nErF wAlLs. oMfG wHy diD bLuNGiE bAlaNcE dOdGeS toO? tHaT's nOt wE mEaNt! hUnTeR mUsT oUtClaSs eVeRyThInG tO bE wHaT I wAnT. tHis IsN'T fN fAiR bRo. CoMpARe cLaSs aBilITiEs! 🤬🤬 🤣🤣🤣
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Bearbeitet von Nimune: 1/25/2023 10:27:25 PM
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Dude you really think rift is good? Cmon guardian. You clearly have never played warlock. Rift is absolute pants.
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Probably the greatest post of all time, read it all the way through absolutely agreeing with the class ability state we're in.
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I have 100 Rec and an Arc Soul Build, I also have a Void Sould build with the Empower rift exotic Boots. I used both Offensively. Especially the Arc build. If you pair it with the Arc Helm and Cold heart... Instant abilities. If you take away helm and just use Arc weapons it's still a 10ish second Cooldown for me.
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6 AntwortenI’ve gotten killed while invis in pvp so many times, it’s as if I wasn’t invis at all.
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9 AntwortenBearbeitet von The Hermit IX: 1/20/2023 6:25:05 PMAnd even with all the nerfs both Hunter and Titan will have their class ability before a Warlock will. That’s PVP “balance” for ya. Every aspect of PVP a Warlock is bottom tier and this is why they represent only 20% of active users in PVP and the other 80% are Hunters and Titans. It’s several things that are so far from being remotely balanced between the classes that lead to very low Warlock usage. I’m done crying for the day 😂