Since they leaned into SBMM, I’ve enjoyed Crucible so much more. I was away at the start of Seraph, so I’m still leveling. Otherwise, I’d be in comp and QP a lot more. I really enjoy the new game modes, too, and I [b]hated[/b] rift in D1. I find PVP way less laggy. I mean, it’s not perfect. Lag still happens, a lot of net limiters in the wild, and I can’t stand macros. There are still matches where it’s obvious one team is handicapped, but I think that’s the point. The current balancing is stretching everyone’s skill-band. Just because it’s annoying sometimes doesn’t mean it’s not balanced. Bungie is doing what they can, putting in thought, taking a risk or two here and there. It’s promising either way.

my experience i lose , get spawn farmed me bad pvp get around trading killls UNTIL game: this guy is good, let's pair him with bad players against flawless trials players ....bad at pvp, back to trading kills on pvp maps. it's a cycle of being a little better than average new lights, then losing against skilled players. i just want to enjoy mayhem instead, but i need bounties for the bright dust

It's not that people want SBMM gone completely. It's that Quickplay is supposed to be PvP for people who don't really care to sweat. It would be akin to playing old school Halo where there was a Social Playlist and a Ranked Playlist. In social, you might end up against someone who stomps you, or you might have close games. In Ranked, every match was going to be one where you had to try your heart out. One playlist you went to have fun, the other you went to prove yourself. As it stands now in Destiny, you have no method for the former. Worse yet, less skilled players won't improve when fighting other less skilled players. This would NORMALLY be fixed with a ranking system, but since this game's ranking system also looks at KD instead of actual rank primarily, there's not any avenue for improvement.

This is exactly why they don’t like it.

oh honestly I hope the streamers get defunded and find real jobs.

I always hate discussions about SBMM because no one ever seems to bring up team balancing. The real issue is when you consistently have games that are dramatically one sided. I think most people would be fine with lobbies having a wide range of skill levels, so long as the actual teams are balanced. And people always jump to blaming the matchmaking rather than the more obvious things. Oh you're upset that you can't compete with off meta loadouts? That sounds like a sandbox issue, not a matchmaking problem. You to relax in PvP? What does that even mean!? It's a competitive mode! If you want to chill out and not try so hard, don't expect to pop off and farm kills???

I'm with you. I've been saying for two years the cbmm crucible was getting worse and worse. It got to where people who just wanted to have fun and use different weapons were just screwed. It's super disingenuous for the streamers and top 2%ers to say they "just want a casual match" and completely ignore the fact that because of them the bottom 90% can NEVER have a casual match. This last Iron Banner felt like D1 Y3 crucible. I enjoyed the hell out of it for a pretty good amount of time. The streamers say "this way nobody gets casual games", but that's just not true. If I have a bad game with sbmm I just leave MM after it's over and let the algorithm figure out it needs to decrease my bracket. Funny thing is, no matter what I only average breaking even over time. Regardless of sbmm or cbmm. However, I have a much better time with sbmm. As far as the "but muh latency" argument I have two things to say... There is little to no difference in latency between sbmm and cbmm(as the last two years have proven) and perhaps most importantly... Latency will not make you do better in pvp. A person with a high latency connection has no aim assist, target acquisition, bullet magnetism, or whatever. That person's guns always feel slick and it's almost impossible to hit anything and if they do it doesn't register, and to them everyone else is skipping around the screen. Everyone else actually sees them go through a door and they die BEFORE THEY EVEN KNOW THEY WENT THROUGH THE DOOR. Now with p2p it's the connection between two people that can be slow. It might be physical distance between players, or one end might have a bottleneck. No matter who you are or how much you pay for internet, there will be slow service sometimes. All this "I pay for the best so I know it isn't me" doesn't mean anything. Considering how many gamers just play over Wi-Fi instead of plugging in, it's safe to say the bottleneck may just be on your end if you're seeing shenanigans. Maybe the fact that your entire house is streaming Netflix while you play games might have something to do with it.

Waaaaaaah streamer this Waaaaaaaaaaah streamer that Still slobbin all over them like always about EVERY single thing 🤣. Go get help.

TLDR: SBMM Is better and I enjoy it. I find this entire conversation funny when the answer is obvious that sbmm is better for the majority of the audience. Think about it and imagine if the audince was big enough to support both options for the same game mode at once. Eventually everyone would choose sbmm except for those who don't know any better. Day 1. Even split, everyone's connection roughly the same(big pools). Day two most of people who got stomped(significantly affects enjoyment) switch to sbmm, and those that were in sbmm who couldn't stomp enough(smaller number) go to cbmm. At end of day two sbmm got a lot bigger and lower skilled and cbmm got smaller and more skilled. This continues until cbmm pool continues to shrink(removing any connection advantages) and skill level continues to rise as more average players become the bottom of the barrel before realizing they don't need this to be a job to compete. In the end the top tier players would also give up on cbmm as they are left to only play with themselves and instantly scare off anyone new to the mode. The lesson is that yes cbmm works when presented as the only option, and yes the top tier will have lots of fun at everyone else expense. The lowest tier is always going to suffer, due to lag or getting stomped. Will they learn anything getting stomped? No. Does anyone learn from lag, also no but if the middle 60 are playing more because for most people playing others either slightly better or slightly worse is more fun, then overall less lag. The only people who won't have a better time, are those which don't enjoy competition. You can recognize these players as they are the ones saying "you just want easier matches too!" You will never hear them mention competition except as a negative and "fun" or "relaxed" are just code words for pub stomp, or only fun for them. Maybe i am blessed to just be average or slightly below with desire for real competition because i have had no lag, and almost every game was close where when i did well i had success and when i played poorly i suffered. Sure i would like to be so much better that it's almost hard to lose, but I have a job, family, and am too old to get gud. So i will enjoy my time in the minor leagues with others like me. Maybe i can even get my old friends to join me if they can forget what it was like last time they played (cbmm).

[quote]Those PvP streamers who are complaining about SBMM are whining because with it, they can't jump into a quick play map and easily own it and then post videos about how dominant they are against players, like me, who are far less skilled at PvP. I've seen many videos where they claim that's not the case. That's BS. Awhile back I saw one of these PvP gods showing a pre SBMM quick play match where he went something like 50-0 and got some super rare medal for it. Would he have been able to do that if the players he was up against were at or near his same level? Not an efffin chance. There was another vid from a PvP god showing his first match with Vex Mythoclast where he shredded the opposing team and got nearly 50 kills. Would he have been able to do that against players at or near his skill level? Not an effin chance. No effin way. For players like that, connection base matchmaking is a little like me dropping down to the Cosmodrome to farm kills to get a deepsight weapon done. Practically everything is a one shot kill. That's what the PvP god streamers want from quickplay. They want to own the map against far less skilled players than they are. They don't want to work for their kills. They just want to dominate with ease. When SBMM was changed to connection based MM, half the matches were mercied and there was almost always one or two players who were way better than everyone else who would routinely finish with 40+ kills. Everyone else on the map was just cannon fodder. That may be great for that one guy, but hardly fun for everyone else. SBMM has its problems, sure. Creating Crucible is like herding cats, an always chaotic work in progress. But even with SBMM's problems, it's working and I'm playing Crucible again and I can hold my own with the other players on it who are at or near my skill level. Matches are finishing closer. They're not being mercied anywhere near as often. I'm having fun in Crucible again. I hated the connection MM Crucible where all I was was cannon fodder for PvP junkies. Streamers speak with much louder voices than we do. Their whines get noticed by the devs more than the average players. They have more influence. This whining about SBMM from streamers is likely being heard by you, Bungie. You get rid of it, I'll be done with Crucible again. I'm not at all interested in being a bullet sponge for some streamer who wants to own every quick play map and make videos about how effing wonderful they are. And fine, troll me if ya want with some insipid "git gud" BS. I don't give a rat's a__.[/quote] Also, there's no way in hell people aren't using cheats to run up the scoreboard. I've watched some of these vids myself. Them: They're slightly off with their weapon reticle and kill the player in less than a second from a mile away. Me: I'm aiming straight down the sight within a few feet and I got the drop on them, they don't die and turn around and kill me. Like I said, there's no way in hell players are that good without cheating their asses off! Something ain't right. And it's not my connection, try again.

If SBMM stays dedicated servers need to be implemented

The same people that made trials dead will do same with normal pvp noticed no penalty for leaving shows you everything . I'm still subscribed to a cheater just to see how long bungie allows it for ,so far it's been 2 years and he's still playing says enough

1 bungie dont listen 2 people still play pvp 3 who cares anymore

Just have a section that plays “for fun”, with little to no skill considered, and a list that plays “for competition”, that matches based on skill levels. I don’t care either way, but I don’t think every pvp mode has to be centered around skill level. The true essence of a “quick play” mode should be to jump in with whoever, whenever, and play the game.

I only read the title Everyone should know by now that it doesn't matter whether it's SBMM or CBMM, because there will always be one side or the other that is not happy how things are going. It's part of the reason this business plays with it like a light switch. It's just a matter of time before they flip the switch again.