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12/18/2022 10:14:03 AM
73
Sbmm in ranked defeats the purpose of "ranked"
Having SBMM inside of a ranked playlist means I'm playing ascendant players while doing placements and straight out of placements. It COMPLETELY defeats the purpose of having a ranking system since someone who is as good as an ascendant could he stuck at gold 3 because all they verse is ascendant players. Bungie really really dropped the ball with the comp rework. Also imagine putting a fixed drop rate on a LEGENDARY random rolled weapon. Also imagine reworking it and leaving only 1 new reward. How can they be this clueless??
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I agree. It would really only be matches against similar ranks, not skill. On a side note, I also don't believe whether you win or not should be the determining factor for if you lose or gain points. As a primarily freelance/solo player, I find almost every match I'm in leaning heavily on RNG whether my team wins or not. Feels like if I play 10 matches, 5 of them will have 1 or 2 incompetent "lone wolf" players on my team, 3 or 4 will have me against very experienced players beyond my skill level, 4 of them would be practically blowouts, and 2 or 3 might actually be fair. (yes, this adds up to over 10 because they often overlap)
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Lol not trending anymore, they must be sick of this post. Nice bungo
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Honestly they just contradicted themselves a ton when talking about new comp. (all quotes are from [url=https://www.bungie.net/7/en/News/article/51947]11/17/2 twab[/url]) -They called it "a true ladder-based system" when it seems your rank does not affect who you play at all -They said it was supposed to "more closely reflect player skill" and "show how good you really are" but then went on to say they "don't want someone to feel pressure to play tons of games looking for a drop, all while your Division Rating drops and you ruin your division standing" How would you 'ruin' your division by playing more, that just means you were somehow ranked higher than your actual skill. -They said they "don't see division as something to really grind for rewards" but that's kinda what it is now, play 9 games a week for 3 rose drops as well as grinding rank to get better reputation multiplier. -They said "One of the best rewards you can get from Competitive division is right in the name. Your Competitive Division, which you have earned throughout the Season, lets you know where you actually sit in the hierarchy of players better than KDA, win percentage, or a third-party Elo ranking ever could" when as far as I can tell you can't even display your rank in-game at all.
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3 AntwortenBearbeitet von Hawpy: 12/18/2022 11:06:44 PMI have no concept of how the ranking system works and how it affects matchmaking. We're told that players who are well below their expected tier would gain more points from a win and lose fewer on a loss, the opposite being true for players that are well above their expected tier. It's also said that you earn more points for winning a match that you were statistically more likely to lose, lose more for losing one you were likely to win etc. My last win gave me 5 rank points, my last loss made me lose 6 points. This would suggest that the games were either so stacked to one side that victory was a foregone conclusion (not the case), or that I am so exactly in the correct division that I shouldn't be able to move from it. I am in Gold II, with Crucible stats all in and around the top 5% mark. Maybe I'm interpreting it wrong, which wouldn't be surprising, but I don't understand how the system can put me up against Unbroken and Flawless players (which is fine on its own) in Gold matches and then have my rank functionally not change, regardless of the result or individual performance. [spoiler]I'd hope that this mess is caused by Bungie capping placements at Gold III for this first season, and that players above that can be placed more appropriately in future seasons.[/spoiler]
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6 AntwortenIt’s actually quite simple why SBMM is there. It’s to avoid good players tanking their rank just to play lower skilled players. It’s been added to every ranked system (priority of or parameter of SBMM does vary). If you can’t see why it’s included, then no explanation will help. Does it make climbing the ladder “harder”…. Sure. But also remember bungie uses “loose” SBMM so the argument u will win 50% of games doesn’t apply here. It’s just how it works. SBMM is here to stay, accept it and adapt or dont and play another game.
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Bearbeitet von A_mo: 12/19/2022 2:24:35 PMSo far its not nearly as bad as it could be (doesn't mean I'm never going to complain about it because sbmm is my personal evil boss character). But one thing that always gets glossed over and has ended up turning into what shouldn't be a surprise to anyone once sbmm starts to go south is "playability." How playable is comp going to be over time. If its not very playable, win or lose, it has a far lower chance of being something people are going to want to play. With the old comp a lot of the time it just didn't feel all that playable, partially because of the player population but the population got like that from more than just a lack of rewards. What sbmm has done in the past is focus on a dubious characterization of playability for the lowest skilled least invested and absolutely highest skilled players. Doing that is why it hasn't worked so well before. If it doesn't work again it will probably be for the same reason. EDIT: Oh I do want to point that my complaints are never about the devs or the people making the game. Not that anyone cares what I think but I have been whining a lot on here lately. Its always the sbmm and the way it controls everything. It even controls peoples' brains and I just want the people brains to be free.
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3 AntwortenAlso if SBMM will be removed from competitive, ladder system will lose any sense to exist. Because there no reason in it, if you could meet people with k/d above 2.0 at start and in last league.
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7 AntwortenIf that's the case, how many bad players have made it to ascendant?
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Cbmm would make sense the ranking it's self would level the skill eventually.
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1 Antworten[b]All I want to know is how Bungie prioritizes skill vs rank while matchmaking?[/b] I haven't played new Comp yet (I don't plan to until I see what else they have in mind for the playlist). If I did I could accept matches with Gold 3 vs Platinum 1, and Platinum 1 vs 3, but if Ascendant can match Gold - I don't think it was made right. Ranks should naturally match you against players of similar skill, in my eyes there's no need for SBMM. The only possible reason to have SBMM in a ranked playlist is make sure the player base has a decent population pool to matchmake. As well as to meet Bungie's goal for a "true rank". Which is admirable, on paper, but I think they should've kept things simple.
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2 AntwortenBearbeitet von Quantum_Symmetry: 12/19/2022 7:39:18 PMAgree or disagree you must admit that everyone in PvP does not progress, or improve at the same rate. SBMM ensures that there is at least an opportunity for an individual to improve. How does one improve, by honing their skill. The matchmaking is designed to support this at it's core. As your skill improves over your opponents in your rank, you will be promoted with a caveat. That caveat happens to be the component that I think needs improvement, individual contributions, no matter the outcome. I do not believe that a "win" should be weighted more than your performance in that match. Yes, include wins overall, but not as the primary determining factor. I completed a comp match yesterday that our team lost. I had the highest number of opponent defeats, the highest KA/D in the lobby and inflicted the most damage overall. Where is that reflected? Because we lost, down goes the rank rating. Q. (Edited a typo)
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79 AntwortenBearbeitet von X-LoganX: 12/19/2022 1:07:15 AMThen why were so many anti-sbmm people over the past few year saying that sbmm has no place in casual that it needs a ranked mode. They've literally given people what they asked for yet you still cry. It's more and more that none of the 'high level' players want an actually challenge, you just want easy wins.
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5 AntwortenThats def not how it works..... sbmm would take your skill level or mmr and match it with similar mmr, if you're gold you're not facing ascendant hands down. Its literally just you not liking a system that puts you with others at your level or slightly above or below. Placements they benchmark you so you may have and I say may have loosely in most games even leauge of legends your first placement is normally against golds depending how you do you face plat or silver, never challenger.
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9 AntwortenA lot of players are obviously confused about the competitive division ladders these days, presumably because they divide the Destiny PvP community into good and bad players. Black and white thinking has often led to beef within the community, which is no wonder, since it would also be far too banal to control competitive encounters in PvP. In fact - and also for balance reasons - fortunately the algo still has to decide who fits best into your team or the opposing team - and that is then the potentially best line-up. I think the message Bungie is sending us is that the best don't necessarily have to be at the top. And I can imagine that the matchmaking cannot be that simple, i.e. that you first determine a ranking to find out "who the strong players are" and then just match gold against gold, for example. Personally, I find it at least exciting that the top comp rank Ascendant doesn't have to include those with the highest skill level or top-notch game understanding.
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24 Antworten[quote]Having SBMM inside of a ranked playlist means I'm playing ascendant players while doing placements and straight out of placements. It COMPLETELY defeats the purpose of having a ranking system since someone who is as good as an ascendant could he stuck at gold 3 because all they verse is ascendant players. Bungie really really dropped the ball with the comp rework. Also imagine putting a fixed drop rate on a LEGENDARY random rolled weapon. Also imagine reworking it and leaving only 1 new reward. How can they be this clueless??[/quote] If ranked player wasn’t sbmm it would defeat the purpose.. . Do you actually want your PvP skills to mean something or do you just want an excuse to stomp some newbs… If you’re truly going to be ranked shouldn’t you be ranked against the best players and not the worst? This community cracks me up… If PvP and competition mattered to you then you would seek out opportunities to prove yourself against better players…not complain when you’re faced with a little adversity… Here’s the problem- you’re only ever going to be ranked against who is active and online at the same time as you - there could be way better players that you may never play because you just never meet online - so even if you’re at the top of the heap you’re still not as good as you think you are..
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1 AntwortenYou're right. Unfortunately Timmys and dumb people can't quite grasp the concept for whatever reason. Saying stupid things like you don't want to play people of your same skill when the ladder system would still facilitate that....by playing people of your same rank.... Just sad how braindead some people can be.
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I had to do a fair bit of reading on the subject first and now, I'm not even sure I understand why most of you guys even take the ladder system as a whole seriously, as in, regardless in what Rank you are, you basically have no realistic way to control how you move up or down in it. The matchmaking algorithms seem shaky at best, based on what people have found themselves against, you are at the mercy of time zones as far as opponents, then, if for some reason you decide to get on and play on a weird holiday you might find you are being matched with totally different skill levels simply because either no one is on, or EVERYONE is on ... I mean, the list goes on. When they have big comps for money they put everyone in the same room with the same hardware for a reason, to control 99% of the variables. In this game we are at the mercy of our internet provider, old hardware, Grandma tripping on the router cable, your toaster archiving Sentience and EMP'ing the entire building ... not exactly an environment to "prove" anything in. It's a online shooter game with Magic Wizards wielding Random Guns and fighting variable lag, not a Chess Competition at City Hall, you could lose a Rank just because your sister switched the Microwave on at the wrong time ffs, the number of variables involved are off the scales. Are you near the top of the ladder? Well, you are doing fekking fantastic as far as I am concerned, like, well done. I honestly mean that, because if I try the same, I'll go straight near the bottom and just randomly wiggle around down there. Are you having trouble moving the last 10% to the very top? Well, I'm pretty sure the margin of error for the whole system is a LOT larger then 10% so your situation could change instantly, or never, depending on RNG.
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1 AntwortenI remember replying to a post like this. Your absolutely right. You should face people in your rank. Period. Just like apex.
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1 AntwortenIt's almost like Bungie has no idea what they are doing
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1 Antworten[quote]Having SBMM inside of a ranked playlist means I'm playing ascendant players while doing placements and straight out of placements. It COMPLETELY defeats the purpose of having a ranking system since someone who is as good as an ascendant could he stuck at gold 3 because all they verse is ascendant players. Bungie really really dropped the ball with the comp rework. Also imagine putting a fixed drop rate on a LEGENDARY random rolled weapon. Also imagine reworking it and leaving only 1 new reward. How can they be this clueless??[/quote] Gold 3 is the highest it will place you just beat your opponents. Check trials.report on your opponents it will tell you comp level.
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3 AntwortenBearbeitet von Regret: 12/20/2022 12:55:12 PMDestiny is a casual game… it’s fine… casuals should not ever face sweaties
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3 AntwortenWhat you folks need to understand: Destiny Division Ranks =/= Skill ranks Destiny Division Ranks = Reputation rank
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5 AntwortenBearbeitet von cedar: 12/20/2022 7:54:13 AM
cedardeep sea pearl diving... - alt
ranks are mildly trivial considering a skilled player could manipulate their rank via throwing games; similarly to how and why skilled players reset their cards to dodge the flawless pool: the less sweaty the more pleasure <yawn> i suspect that sbmm is there to prevent this from happening although i don't have a clue how skill could be measured in this game. guaranteed tho, if someone figures out what determines skill rating, it will be exploited as well. -
It’s for the Care Bears. There isn’t a competitive mode in Destiny outside of maybe trials flawless pool. But that’s just full of cheaters and cheese. Basically the Care Bears want to climb rank BUT they don’t want to get better. So Bungie has started heavily catering to them this past year. These are the type of people who most likely constantly complain because they lack the ability to problem solve. Their wah wah gets results.
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3 AntwortenHow good are you if you can’t beat your own skill?
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