Here's the short of it.
This is where I think the weapon sandbox should go in the future. I'm just going to structure it a bit like patch notes since I think that's the easiest way to go about things. Just keep in mind, things like aim assist and damage are PvP only, PvE remains unchanged where able, although some changes and things like range would have to carry over.
[b][i][u]Zoom, the make or break stat on everything.[/u][/i][/b]
Zoom, in my opinion is far too heavily weighted on your range. This causes a lot of really weird balancing quirks, namely Shayura's Wrath, Cold Denial, and some of the Cars that have 20 zoom. I like that it influences damage falloff, but it needs to not be so much of a make or break. So here's how I'd go about it:
- Reduce influence of range of weapons with "abnormal" zoom values for their weapon types. I.E. I'd have the current range values of a given weapon type's "default" zoom be the same, and reduce influence of divergent values. So for example, an SMG at 13 zoom wouldn't be affected, but Shayura's would theoretically lose a few meters (more on specifically that later).
[b][i][u]ARs, AKA the Tryhards Hate me section.[/u][/i][/b]
ARs in a vacuum aren't bad, but in comparison to everything else, they're really not good enough for how little flexibility most of them have. Thankfully, Regime did get the update I've requested a few times, but here's the scoop of what should happen to start, I'd play with lethality, but since I'm changing other things, it's better safe than sorry.:
- Increase range to around where Hand Cannons currently are. This includes 360s getting the 120 HC treatment and getting an extra few meters on other ARs of a similar range value.
[b][i][u]Hand Cannons, the part where the comp players REALLY hate me.[/u][/i][/b]
Hand Cannons are insanely dominant, and have been for the better part of 3 years now, with a check being introduced for 2 seasons, then subsequently gone in Adaptive ARs. Adaptives need to be hit down, Precisions need to be brought up a little, and 120s I'd only really change slightly. But anyways, here's my changes:
- Cut the base (zero value) aim assist cones by about 30%, same scaling. New values for cone sizes range from 1.7 degrees to 2.2 degrees.
- Reduce range by 2 meters on Precisions and Adaptives
- Increase Precision Frame RPM to 200, improve damage slightly to allow easier 3-taps with boosts, and allow 1 crit 3 body kills on lower Resilience Guardians.
- 120s keep their current range (just less aim assist) in return for going to 16 zoom across the board. I think because coding stuff, they'd lose some range from the hip here, but myeh, I don't think people had hip fire in mind here anyways.
[b][i][u]Pulse Rifles, generally fine, but a few changes in mind on my part[/u][/i][/b]
Pulses for the most part are fine where they're at. I think non-BXR 450s and 390s need a bit of help, and some lower Range stat models also need some juice. Anyways, here it goes:
- Slightly reduced how much range scales your, well, range. Keep the current maximum the same, but target helping lower value stat packages a bit.
- Increase damage on non-BXR Lightweight (450 RPM) frames to allow for slightly more forgiveness.
- Reduce Burst delay significantly on Graviton Lance, I'd say start at the same as a Lightweight, maybe? Idk.
- Reduce Burst delay slightly on Adaptive Frames (400 RPM in the tooltip), add in that 120 HC-esque range benefit that I've mentioned a few times.
- And for the love of God, PLEASE make more 4-burst Aggressive frames. I'm begging you.
[b][i][u]SMGs go BRRRRRRR[/u][/i][/b]
SMGs are in a fine enough spot, but I think Precision Frames could use a bit of something that some might be able to call a theme. Essentially, they're that "hybrid" SMG that pops up in some games, especially CoD. I want them to behave kind of like a BO2 Peacekeeper, more or less. I also think 750s could use a slight edge on 900s, too. Anyways, here's how I'd change them:
- Increase minimum zoom values featured on Precision Frame SMGs to 16
- Add that 120-esque Range benefit to 600 RPM SMGs (so Shayura's would keep approximately its current range, but would have a few more friends to compete with it).
- Increase 750 RPM damage slightly, goal being that they're easier to hit optimal TTK with, but punish missing more.
[b][i][u]Bows, how the hell do you do these things?[/u][/i][/b]
I think Bows on their own are generally fine, if slightly oppressive with multiple people on them, although that's down to rulesets that are simply impossible to really implement well. My big complaint with them is that the bow combo builds in my opinion are still very annoying to fight against, since they take away the 1 big weakness of a bow in that they're bad in direct, head to head combat. I also think Lightweights need some help here:
- Reduce Swap-from speed, as to make combo builds at the very least require more build investment. I'd say Precision Frames should be hit a bit more than Lightweights, could also turn it into an animation of unfolding the Compounds? Idk
- Improve Lightweight Frame Draw Times and reload speeds, as to make them better in direct combat. Not high tier, but something to be aware of when fighting a Bow user.
- Reduce (speed-up) Draw Time of Wish-Ender to 0.7 Seconds from almost 0.9. To compensate for a "you have Wallhacks" bow having more standard downtimes, reduce the bodyshot damage to a Lightweight Frame.
[b][i][u] Precision Special Weapons, if the Tryhards read this far, they're going to be foaming after this.[/u][/i][/b]
I'm going to lump Snipers, Arby/Lorentz, and Slug Shotguns into the same category for this one. Essentially, Precision Special Weapons are too low risk/high reward in my opinion, and I feel like they could be reworked slightly to punish bodyshots more. Out of all 3, I think the most drastic changes would be for snipers, but I'll go by weapon type.
Snipers:
- Reduced bodyshot damage of ALL (Special Ammo) models to be the same, at 85 against Guardians. The Impact stat for me should determine the Crit multiplier.
- Move DARCI to the Special slot
- Flinch is really really inconsistent, but that's more a netcode problem, not a sniper problem.
Arbalest/Lorentz:
- Normalize Aim Assist Cones to be the same as a 45 zoom Sniper
- Reduce bodyshot damage to 94
- Reduce the range of the succ effect on Lorentz's explosion
- Revert the Lorentz Telemetry Changes from Anniversary
Slugs:
- Revert the PvE damage nerf from Anniversary
- Reduce Bodyshot damage to 70
- Reduce Chaperone's range to actually be within where it's supposed to
- Damage now falls instantly to zero
- Improve crit damage to 350, allowing for 1-taps to certain supers (general rule of thumb is moderate or lower Resilience Guardians in lower damage resist supers)
[b][i][u]Pellet Shotguns, the Tryhards probably didn't get this far before flaming me.[/u][/i][/b]
I think Pellets are largely fine where they're at, although they feel ridiculously inconsistent to use. I think some slight reworks should make them a bit less annoying to fight. This is also probably going to be the hardest to read section, so bear with me.
Overall:
- Remove Random peet spread, so everything now has Shot Package
- Damage falloff now goes instantly to zero
- Replace Range Stat with Spread Stat. Should hopefully be self explanatory.
- Because of this, all shotgun archetypes now have a set range.
- Remove Smoothbore.
- New Full Choke Stats: +20 Spread while aiming, Reduced Hip-fire accuracy, and -20 Spread from the hip
- Reduce Rifled Handling Penalty to equal the Spread Benefit
- Change the Assault Mag's additional stats from a +Stability to a -5 Spread
- Reduce Dual Loader penalty to a -20 Reload.
- Slight PvE damage buff, too.
Aggressive Frames: Low intrinsic Spread (20-50 Max), damage out to 5 meters.
- Improve damage per pellet slightly.
- Reduce fire rate to base 50 RPM
Slower, heavier models
Adaptive Frames (Renamed from Precision): Moderate intrinsic Spread (40-70 or so), hits to about 6 meters.
- Unchanged beyond mentioned reworks
Lightweight Frames: Good spread (70-100-ish), and the obvious Lightweight bonus, reaches to 5 meters
- No changes outside of mentioned reworks.
Rapid Fires: Fast shooting with best in class range and Spread comparable to Adaptives. Reach out to about 8 meters.
- Buffed to 200 RPM, very slightly reduced damage
- Now have Dual Loader Intrinsic, Dual Loader now reloads 4 at a time.
[b][i][u]Fusion Rifles:[/u][/i][/b]
Just High Impacts and Bastion due for being buffed, really badly. They're not monumental buffs, but they're enough to make a difference in their efficacy.
High Impacts:
- Revert the Charge Time nerf (0.87 seconds for a charge speed)
- Increase base zoom value to 16
- Improve non-Glacioclasm stat packages slightly.
Bastion:
- Revert the damage nerf, the spread nerfs were more than enough.
Other requests:
- Legendary Stasis Fusions (maybe an exotic too, but Legendaries are a must).
Inb4 flames.
English
#destiny2
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I’m cool with it.
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1 AntwortenInteresting. This is why I’d prefer for there to be public test servers.
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I liked your old name better. Those were simpler times.
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Alright, after going through and reading the proposed changes, I've come to a conclusion. You have either A, not actually thought into these a lot, or B, were coming up with these as you go. For example, the proposed change to shotties. You know that the reason people use felwinters over other shotguns is because of shot package right? And you want that consistency on every shotty? Leading to something like Riiswalker being a Lazer as it can roll with 100 range? Or, in your proposed case, perfect spread? It seems like all of these changes are there because they fit YOUR playstyle. No wonder you "changed" fusions the way you did, they're your most used weapons. Along with massively increasing the range of all autos, as they're your second most used. Outside of a few weapons, pvp is balanced. The only weapons that actually need changed are very slight. For example, the BxR and Le Monarque shouldn't be as forgiving as they are. Other than that, pvp is fine.
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You’re not a dev. it’s bungie’s game not yours. Nobody is reading this wall of text. Defending fusions = any opinion discarded.
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These are all really good ideas
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Tbh these are all interesting ideas but the meta is one of the most balanced that we’ve had and I think the only thing it needs is maybe a high impact fusion buff, the zoom changes, and a slight ar buff
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I agree with most of this, except for the sniper change, because that would be garbage
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4 AntwortenThere’s a few small things I have gripes with here, mainly sniper body shot damage, hand cannon aim assist and shotgun pellets having an instant zero damage falloff. The sniper body shot and shotgun immediate damage falloff are just a straight up -blam!- NO imo. Especially the sniper damage nerf. You make high-impacts do the same body shot damage as rapid fires, they become completely worthless. Hand cannons, I agree that the aim assist is too strong, but I think the nerf you’re calling for is a little too extreme. Just reduce it slightly, not a huge amount. Aside from that, though, I’m actually pretty on board with everything listed here. (incoming idea I had - what if, instead of reducing aim assist and flinch and all that crap on snipers, what if they instead just get descoped when flinched in PvP? That way you can make them far more forgiving and easy to use in PvE while also balancing them out in PvP)
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Agreed on all points. People will be salty about saying fusions are fine, but really it’s just a few god roll offenders that were (xur’s ingredient/null composure)handed out to everyone. The entire weapon class does not need to be nerfed into the ground because of one particular combination of perks.
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I can’t bear to read through all of this, but zoom should have no effect on anything other than, well, zoom. It should be purely visual. And no to reverting the Bastion nerf… Just no.
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9 AntwortenBud, what is with you defending fusions? You’re going to ask for a nerf to all precision specials weapons, and then ask for a buff to fusions? The sniper usage to kill ratio is significantly lower than that of fusions. Fusions actually have the highest out of all specials. Almost like you don’t need to bother using your primary when your fusion covers you in every fight.
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About time you’ve summoned yourself into this madness!
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3 AntwortenOkay, but, why? You’ve listed a lot of changes, but given a reason for pretty much none of them. I can’t see the game being any better if these changes got made. Also I have to ask, precision special weapons are too rewarding? But fusion rifles and shotguns aren’t? 🤔 This is just “hello friends, here is my bias.”
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Soupreem You make some valid points and I agree that eververse must be removed from this game but, Whether we wanted it or not, we've stepped into a war with the Cabal on Mars. So let's get to taking out their command, one by one. Valus Ta'aurc. From what I can gather, he commands the Siege Dancers from an Imperial Land Tank just outside of Rubicon. He's well protected, but with the right team, we can punch through those defenses, take this beast out, and break their grip on Freehold. PS: I hope all of you have a safe and happy holidays.
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I always like when you summon yourself to people’s complaints about the pvp woes. This was well thought out and in line with patch notes we all read about. So obviously you understand the values in this game and how they interact in game. Don’t be surprised if we don’t see a sandbox change until like April or may after the witch queeen. I really think if they do make any changes along with witch queen it will be small, considering they said this past major sandbox change was going to be it for a while.
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