The issue with Destiny is that you have a blend of two communities who are not used to sharing the same space and the same game....and so have two very different cultures and "rules of behavior" that clash. IOW you have competitive shooter gamers who make up the bulk of the PVP community...and RPG/action-RPG and MMO players who make up the bulk of the PVE community. The problem is that those communities work differently and have different rules that guide them. Long story short, is that over the last 20 years you have developed in shooter communities what I call "Pub stomp culture". Its **slowly** dying out as more games switch to SBMM versus CBMM....but that pub-stomp culture is stubborn and it isn't going away quietly. Because it has come to define what many shooter gamers consider to be "fun". The issue is that 20 years ago, internet speeds were slow and the infrastructure to provide it was sparse (I'm old enough to remember dial-up). So developers had to focus on optimizing connection quality to get the games to work. The problem is that this allowed player skill level to vary wildly. So you got really good players dumped in with new and low-skilled players...and those good players were allowed to dominate the weaker players. So you have an entire generation of shooter gamers who don't really grasp what real competition is (playing against people of a similar skill level), and see their "reward" for "getting good" being allowed to dominate the weaker players in the community. So shooter games have a long history of skilled players ("friend") getting togehter (stacking up) for the express purpose of dominating weaker players and randomly matchmade (public server) teams..... ....and considering the lopsided matches that resulted to be "fun". Bottomline, is that one game can't serve two masters. It can't both appeal to players who find competition to be fun...and those who find pub stomping/domination to be fun. The problem---as evidenced by your post and the ongoing struggles of Trials---is that todays gamers are far less tolerant of games treating them this way. Because they have far more gaming and entertainment options and choices than they did 20 years ago. So what ends up happening these days, is that the pubstompers wind up destroying the playlist or the game in question. Because they drive off average players...and make the enviroment so hostile to new players that the playlist or game can't replace the losses. So Bungie needs to decide who it is they are making this game for...and what experience they intend to provide. The fact that they've gone to Crossplay, and have introduced an element of SBMM to Trials (and are flirting with a Freelance playlist) seems to indicate that they have quietly come to a decision.

Please don’t call yourself a customer in a video game Feels… odd…

To be completely honest just quit the game. A lot of people here should. The game just isn’t what it used to be and while some may enjoy it that’s gonna change sooner or later. I stoped and since have only glanced the game on occasion. There’s plenty of titles where if your looking for a fun time in pvp I could recommend. Like dark souls. Obviously not many games will compete with the smooth gunplay but to be frank that doesn’t matter when it feels like a chore to play.

you have 50% win rate, exactly what bungie plans for so what are you crying about

So because you're incompetent the game should hold your hand and ensure you only match those you can handle? Maybe players that suck at raiding should have the raid boss jump off the map too? And the red bar enemies should take thier hand and walk them to the loot chest? No, if you que up expect to play anyone and everyone, if that's too much to handle stick to the competitive playlists or in pve. Someone being inept at something doesn't mean they get a segregated pvp experience.

yeah so fun story a few days ago I ran into a six stack that I -blam!- you not was literally all top 500 players. I’m talking 6+ K/Ds, 900+ win streak, every single one of them, and they deliberately didn’t cap zones so that they could farm us longer. If people like that want to just stomp and cap all the zones and force an early mercy, ykno what fine at least the matchmaking will make it so I don’t see you again… hopefully. But no, they want to farm K/D and overall kills as much as possible, to the point of literally dragging out the match on purpose to avoid the mercy and ensure that they could farm as long as they want. That one experience proved everything I believe about “quickplay” in Destiny - it either needs skill based matchmaking, or a freelance playlist. Regular IB and Trials still did just fine when Freelance was around, I see no reason not to do it here. People need a place to enjoy PvP without having to worry about running into stacks of people determined to be toxic and make you quit. Oh, and did I mention that one of them was an oh-so-lovely bottom tree striker with lion rampants, DMT and a GL. Yeah. I wanted to throw up too. P.S. - this is coming from someone with a 2.09 KDA this season, grinded Not Forgotten back in season of opulence, and is currently in the top 7% of all players. This isn’t about noobs crying for a safe space - no, it’s about literally any player wanting to actually have fun in a -blam!- video game. Who would’ve thought that’s such a horrible concept.

I completely feel this anger and irritation with Bungie about this issue too. As a new player the Crucible PVP is truly torture and impossible to do. It's horrible and gives a terrible, demotivating feeling. It's not only "not fun", but it is horrible mental torture. I despise that they force it upon me, for the catalysts, and they don't offer an PVE alternative for these kind of things. It makes me angry, sad and angry, and sad, and it's very demotivating. PVP is a complete waste of time and energy for a new player like me. It's one of the worst things about the whole game. It is impossible. Extremely bad.

I watched multiple people lagging all over maps and it’s at the point now where winning a match has turned into “identifying the cheater” that seems to all ways know where you are on the map with their sniper and “never” I mean “never” miss the head shot lol or long range 2 tapping from across the map with hand cannon’s I have a low KD and while bringing up match making issues in Trials I was made to feel like because of my low KD I’m just not good enough to talk about said issue You know maybe they should match up people by their KD not sure if that’s possible but anything is better than what they have to the people that uphold this ridiculous idea that if your not good enough stay out of PVP I have no problem taking my money somewhere else on future DLC’s and you can have it Identifying the cheater-could be a game mode seeing that there are so many of them Just my 2 cents

Every crucible playlist is like this, their is no balance at all! Youre either getting your -blam!- pushed in or your pub stomping some other team! Balanced matches are to few and far between! But its not only bungies matchmaking, its the elitist player mentality! Didn’t receive alot of hugs from mom and dad! They literally love stacking and stomping lesser skilled players because it seriously makes them feel good about themselves! Its pretty pathetic!

Best part about the "charities" they do is we give them the money they then donate to get a tax right off. Good little sheep for supporting it.

D2 matchmaking is brutal. It generally benefits me but all my friends quit. Wish there was at least one 6v6 mode where the non hardcore could play against similar players.

Just join an LFG.

Sounds like you think you're entitled to wins just because you paid for the game. Sorry to break it to you, but it doesn't work like that. If your mental health is being adversely affected by the idea of losing a Crucible match, it might be time to stay out of the Crucible.

Play in your own stacks if your “mental health” is getting effected. Seriously if you don’t like losing so much play with others or don’t play at all. If you don’t have people to play with, why are you even playing this game? It’s literally a fire team based online only action mmo…

This community just responds with "They are playing with friends" but are missing the issue completely

Dry period atm, matchmaking pool is very small so it's pulling at what it can. Should pick up after the anniversary sh!t drops.